I would not think that sand added to manure would be a plus if your soil is already sandy. My soil is quite sandy and when I bought Black Cow in bags I was always sad to see sand in it. (I don't NEED more sand!!!) If your soil is clay, I guess it could (?) help it. I got a truck load of horse manure recently and there was no sand particularly, but all kinds of string, plastic containers and even a key. Now watermelons are sprouting from it. The price was right, so I just throw the junk away and haul my "gold" to my roses. :) Take Care of your back. ;)

I'm a horse person who lives on (and has horses on) sand and mulches with manure that has sand mixed in with it when it's picked up with the tractor. I can tell you sand is VERY heavy, and manure is VERY light. If what you are getting is that heavy it likely has very little manure in it and probably isn't worth your while. And no, it is not normal to intentionally add sand to compost.

Or I should clarify - sand and compost are two completely separate things. If someone wanted to add sand to their soil it would be a different task than adding compost. Also - I would be very surprised if a horse person actually chose to put sand in stalls. Sandy soil for horses is really more of a curse than a blessing - it drains well, but predisposes horses to sand colic (very not good thing). Horse people on sand try to cover their sand so horses don't eat off of it.

Im using horse manure I get for free as well..

They use typical shavings.. the worse I ever get is hay mixed in =).. which I will gladly take.

Its only heavy when wet typically.

I would have NO ideal why they would have that much sand there.. that seems odd and from the little I know of it, as I dont own a horse, wouldnt seem right to do? for one thing how is it cost effecient for them to haul in sand to use? where do they get it?

I just did a quick search about it.. and the first thing that pops out listed a HUGE list of potential problems with sand...

It doesnt dry out quickly underneath,
The horse would ingest too much of it,
Horse may get sand colic
Its heavy and has to be replaced often

ECT ECT..

Manure is great, having pure sand mixed in with it for your garden is insane IMO , unless you have very heavy clay gardens.. even then Im not sure I would want to deal with it.

Trust me free is good, ive hualed in tons of horse manure here, just to help make my beds, but if was like what you had, no way!

Dont get anymore, thank her and say you cant use sand in your beds becuase its too sandy to start with. If shes just trying to dump her "crap" onto you instead of disposing of it, thats her problem now. No one is going to come get free manure from a pile thats pure sand.

Silverkelt

Gee, this really worries me about what I've been putting on my garden. Thanks everyone.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Hi Sherry

I would be concerned about importing nematodes, which as you know inhabit sand here in Florida and get into the roots of many plants.

FWIW I purchased 3 different bags of compost recently. The cheapest had lots of sand and was heavy. The other two had no sand and were much lighter and fluffier. I used them all however on daylilies and roses. I'm going to buy more but only the fluffy stuff.

Denise

And then we can get into the "Not all sand is created equal." discussion.
Technically, sand is a size range of particles. (Not even beach sand is identical: compare the black beach sands of Hawaii with the white (CaCO3) sands of the Bahamas and the white (SiO2) sands of Maryland and Virginia.

In my part of the world, sand can be mined from rivers where its mostly quartz (SiO2) and near the Smokey Mountains may contain some heavy metal minerals from the other side of the Smokies. A cheaper sand that is environmentally sound (it uses the bi-product of lead-zinc mining, also locally) is ground up dolomite (Ca, Mg CO3) again with trace minerals.

Sand isn't sand isn't sand. Sort of the opposite of A rose is a rose is a rose.

Denise, you just made me sick. I never thought of the nematodes that could be in the sand.

Ann, I doubt that it's anything but Florida sand from her pasture. I wish I cared if it were quartz or anything else. I'm concerned about the nematodes now.

Dang! I'm afraid my roses are dead meat. Crap.

Sherry

We're supposed to have nematodes here too, but I've never noticed them on my plants. Don't despair yet. It will probably be OK. ;)

Don't despair totally yet.

Ask the Florida ag people about nematodes in the sands near you.

If she happened to be using phosphate sands, there might not be a nematode problem for roses. (I expect the huge phosphate areas of Florida have different soil biotas evolved over time.) For this sort of thing, you really need to talk to your local ag people.

Nematodes ARE everywhere. Not all of them are bad.

Sherry

I didn't mean to make you sick. First I don't think nematodes affect own-root roses or fortuniana, at least I haven't seen it and I move my roses around like furniture so I see their roots a lot. Yes I have seen RKN damage in Dr. Huey grafts.

I see nematode root damage in things like fig tree, tomato, cabbage. I think they like big juicy roots. But I know you also plant flowers other than roses and there's no sense in bringing in more sand with the potential for nematodes. My yard has enough sand under the 1 inch of contractor sod to suffice me forever.

There are also people who sell beneficial nematodes. I prefer to keep amending my soil near plants with organic matter which drives the nematodes away since they can only travel in sandy soil. Tomatoes I only plant in pots now, the nematodes love them too much.

Denise

As a Florida gardener, I think you are worrying about things too much.
90% of our Florida nematodes are good.
Nematodes will come to your lovely soil buffet you have created no matter what.
It is very common to have sand in mulch and compost in the south.

From UF:

"Free-living nematodes are very important and beneficial in the decomposition of organic material and the recycling of nutrients in soil. Nematode bacterivores and fungivores do not feed directly on soil organic matter, but on the bacteria and fungi which decompose organic matter. The presence and feeding of these nematodes accelerate the decomposition process. Their feeding recycles minerals and other nutrients from bacteria, fungi, and other substrates and returns them to the soil where they are accessible to plant roots."

Please add solutionsforyourlife.com to your favorites.
This is the University of Florida Extension website and can answer many of your Florida garden questions.
Take advantage of your tax dollars at work!

Here is a link that might be useful: Soil-Inhabiting Nematodes

Beneficial nematodes don't scare me. It's the rootknot nematodes that scare me. Perhaps I'm despairing unnecessarily. It's the unknowns that are getting me. How much organics to sand is required to drive away the bad guys? How much sand am I actually getting? Where did the sand come from - new sand from bags/delivered or from the fields?

She replied that she does use sand in her stalls, but I don't know what kind of sand. She thinks it's so heavy because it was the the bottom of the pile.

Oh, well, I'll buck up and not be such a weenie. Denise, don't feel bad. I wasn't THAT sick. I don't know why I never thought of the sand having those bad guys in it. It just hit me hard when you mentioned it - which I appreciated. Thanks, guys!

Sherry

Bottom line - chalk it up as a lesson learned. You need to find your manure some where else!

Sherry, I can't imagine why there would be that much sand in the manure. We have sand as a base in our stalls (it's soft footing for the horses), but it has a very deep layer of sawdust on top of that, so very little sand comes out when we muck out the stalls. The rest of our manure comes directly from the pastures with little to no sand in that.

Just explain to your friend that you can't use the manure with a lot of sand in it. I should think she would be able to tell you which piles of composting manure have a lot of sand.

I never dig or amend special beds for roses. Bulk organic matter belongs on top of the ground, as mulch - just like where nature puts it in the wild. Coarse material like arborist wood chips makes the best mulch for woody plants.

With animal manure + thorns you have to be sure your tetanus protection is kept up to date.

Floridarosez, thanks for the info. I put out some of the same batch of compost on Saturday (one wheelbarrow more to go), and it didn't seem very sandy. I was going to put some in a quart jar of water to see how it separated out, but I haven't yet. Perhaps it's not as bad as I thought. I just can't tell.

bboy, I'm only talking about putting it on top of the ground, and I had a tetanus shot last year, thanks.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, I forgot to ask you if y'all had any rain up there around the time you picked up the manure. Manure is very heavy when wet.

We haven't had rain in months, but I know there was rain north of us, just not sure whether you got any in Ocala.

It had rained, but it was probably more than a week before. Funny thing, I think a day or 2 before I got the manure this monster storm came and sat over the county west of us and then kind of petered out as it went over us, so I don't think that rain had any effect since her pastures were bone dry. I've had it much wetter.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I dont know where in Ocala you are, but I work on a horse farm north of town, and we have monstrous piles of old horse manure mixed with shavings that you are welcome to anytime. The manure breaks down pretty quickly so that most all that is left is shavings. I use it as mulch, and it really works well. Theres also part of the pile that is much fresher manure mixed with shavings, if you'd want that to compost yourself.

Cavamarie, I sent you an email. Thanks.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Well, guess what people? I turned my sand pile into a beautiful garden, just by adding horse manure compost and a little nitrogen (ammonium sulfate; 21-0-0
to help the manure break down a bit more/faster. I planted salt & pepper corn in it & got a beautiful crop this year. Gonna add more manure compost & do the same thing next year. (2012) I live in Utah not far from SLC
Ken

Ken, that sure is using what you have to its best advantage! I'm glad to hear you were successful with it. Keep us posted. I wonder if our climates make any difference.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I know nothing about southern gardening. Where we kept our horse they used sawdust in the stalls. Great stuff.
I shared some compost with a friend in our potting clay we have on the banks of the Muddassippi. He told me he had used several bags of tube sand used to hold P/U trucks on our icy pavements. Had he asked, I might have suggested perlite to use in our area.

His garden did just fine, so I wouldn't worry. But no more sand is going in his garden on my watch. It makes one wonder about the own root nurseries in Florida, and Texas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Perlite

I picked up a ton of horse manure today that had sand in it from the horse stalls. Unfortunately, it was a fine textured sand. I have clay soil. At present the organic composition of my soil is decent, but I don't think I'll be able to use much of this type of horse manure. I just piled it up in one spot to let sit until I test it.