Power windmills? Just trying to think outside the box. Har har. I really don't have a clue, but I'd love to live there. Nice house in a great location. I visit some part of the bay at least once a year. Blue crab country? If not, shucks.
Hank

Hank:

Yes, this is a truly wonderful place to live, especially if you love nature. The Bay is a flyway and the birds are migrating now - it's a wonder to see flocks of geese, gannets, pelicans, thousands of white swans, and so many other species. The Bay is also a nursery for fish so you can always get fresh fish, right off the boat.

The house is a "green" house too. We have a rainwater harvesting system for all potable water. The local newspaper did a story about it a couple of weeks ago and posted a film clip on YouTube. I'd love to get a turbine so we could get power from the wind but they are still way too expensive.

It sounds like you've had a lot of failures with non-native plants in difficult situations. Would native shrubs (I know you use a lot of native trees) work better perhaps?

I would like to plant small trees, large shrubs, maybe palms, and/or grasses around the sides and front of the house to soften the look of the pilings, perhaps make the house seem less tall, and tie the house to the ground.

That seems like the right approach, it's just a matter of figuring out the right plants to implement it with. Does the Virginia Native Plant Society have references for landscaper designers/architects that might be help to provide the appropriate recommendations? You have a very unique situation and it calls for someone that takes that into account (e.g., lots of wind).

As for screening the utilities, does Morella cerifera do well there (southern wax myrtle)? USDA Plants's profile does should it native to the coastal areas of Va. In addition to the regular species, there are dwarf forms available and a mix of those might work.

I would really like to help here, but I am not that familiar with your soils/environment.

At the moment just one thought comes to mind--American Hollies--Ilex opaca. These are generally not available in nurseries, but you can get them. They are native to your general area, but I am not sure that they are appropriate for your specific location there on the Bay.

McLean Nurseries near Baltimore has a good selection, and a few can be had at places like Forest Farm. These hollies are so much more beautiful than any of those commonly sold, that it is a complete mystery to me that they are not more popular. Maybe one reason is that they generally grow into small/medium sized trees, and for some reason people have come to think of hollies as shrubs. But if you want to tie your house better into the land, I think you want something more than just shrubs to do that.

Anyway, I have planted, not counting this year's planting on my new 6 acres, about 150 trees on our 8 acre lot. I asked my wife yeaterday which, at this admittedly early stage, were her favorite trees. #1 was our Satyr Hill holly. Close behind was a Picea orientalis "atrovirens," and after that two golden weeping willows.

--Spruce

what is the descriptive term of that kind of house.. e.g. it is not a 19th century Queen Anne victorian .. so what is it called???

can you expand on this thought:

we do have occasional short periods of salt water flooding during tropical storms.

have you contacted your local Ag agent or soil conservation district ...???

ken

One thing you might do, not plant-related, is to visually beef up the support columns. I have a screened porch on the SW side of the house, which at its highest is about 8-9' off the ground. The drive curves, and that's the first thing you see as you come around a curve. Even though the posts supporting it are more than up to the job, they looked like toothpicks as you saw them, looking up the hill, and visually, I felt the house might tip over. Rather than pay big bucks for 2x6's and build the columns out - I bought heavy cedar trellis sections and fixed them to the posts - instantly making them 3' wide. I also put a narrow section of trellis across the top of the openings, so it all tied together. The trellis also obscures the wheelbarrow and nursery pots stored under the porch. The trellis allows airflow, and light, and would probably be OK for water as well, and isn't THAT expensive that it can't be replaced if necessary. You could also build a trellis "box" to screen the propane tank, and maybe the AC and the generator - it may just be the photo, but it looks as though there is little room between the drive and the tank.

I think I would definitely go with natives, and with plants that are adapted to the beach, to the salt and the wind. It does sound as though the landscape designer you consulted is more familiar with conditions inland and not with beach conditions - maybe use his plan and scrap his choices. Thujas, various hollies, red cedars, Southern magnolias, chokecherry, red-twig dogwoods and others, beach plum, wax myrtle and sumacs are all possibilities. Virginia creeper could be grown on the trellis, although you might have to control it so it didn't eat the house.

It looks like the tall grasses along the water screen the lower part of the house, boat, etc. pretty well on the East side - could you use more, different grasses and beef up the screening effect?

Maybe some Titi (Cyrilla).

Thanks you for all your ideas and suggestions. You all are great! When it comes to planting near the house, I felt like I'm stuck in first gear. Maybe I'm moving into 2nd now.

The front and west side of the house bother me more, probably because I see these areas many times a day and they are so BARE. I'm on the road now, traveling from Portland ME, and won't be home until Sunday. When I do get home, I'll take some photos so I can make it clearer what I mean.

esh - You and dibbit hit the nail on the head re: using native plants. Yes, Myrica cerifera (Southern wax myrtle) is prolific here. It grows everywhere - even on sand dunes. . It tolerates long periods of wind and high tides (including salt water), and bounces back after tropical storms. Some are huge! I've also seen them pruned into multi-trunked trees - lovely. I'll see if I can find some small ones in the woods that may tolerate transplanting.

Your post made me think about what DOES thrive here, not what I can MAKE grow here. In addition to Myrica cerifera, dominant evergreens include native Ilex opaca and magnolia grands. (Maritime forest)

Spruce, that's great news about planting so many trees on your new land. It sounds like you are pleased, but maybe a little impatient for them to grow.

My knowledge of Ilex opaca is limited to the prickly ones in the woods and next to roads. Since Isabel knocked down so many loblollies, our forests have been transformed - you really notice this in the winter. The dominant color is dark green with so many hollies and magnolias growing fast. Tomorrow, we drive from NJ to to Northern Va so I can make a side trip to McLean Nursery. If there is anything I should keep in mind (besides renting a closed trailer), please let me know. I remember messages between you and beng (I think) about what a great place this is. I've been waiting for a chance to visit.

Ken: You asked "what is the descriptive term for that kind of house?" Good question. I don't know the answer but will see what I can find out. As background, my husband wanted to re-create the house he grew up in. That house was in Washington DC and was designed and built by his father in the 1950's. The house had a flat roof where people gathered to watch stars and fireworks, lots of glass "to bring the outside inside," and wonderful views of the city.

Pete's father studied architecture under Walter Gropius who is viewed as a founder of Bauhaus, a school of modern architecture. When I first saw that house, I'd never seen anything like it! I think of our house as a beach house although it isn't in the style of most beach houses in the mid-
Atlantic or southeast, in VA and NC. Maybe it's more like a California beach house? A modern or contemporary beach house? I think it's a reasonable facsimile of the house Pete grew up in, with lots of glass to bring the outside inside, a flat roof for star watching, and wide decks so we can entertain the neighborhood.

Ken, you had a question about our "occasional short periods of salt water flooding during tropical storms." When a tropical storm goes through and if the eye goes is west of us, the Bay backs up and we get flooding. If the ey passes to the east of us, the water in the Bay drains out into the ocean.

During Isabel (2003) and Ernesto (2006), the land under the house was under 3-4 feet of salt water with very strong wind and breaking waves. As the eye moves away, the water drains very quickly. The salt water damage is mitigated to a degree by several inches of fresh rainwater. After one of these storms, you swear everything is dead but the native plants spring right back in the Spring as though nothing happened.

Yes, our local extension agent (ag agent) and especially the forester have become friends. They are unfailingly helpful but don't have much advice about landscaping.

dibbit: The way you describe your entrance sounds similar to ours - a long driveway that curves (through the new forest one day) before you arrive at the house. Our entrance is unimaginative and uninspiring. Most things I planted died - including Nandina 'Firepower'! I like your idea of using cedar trellis to beef up the pilings and screen objects like the propane tank. I thought about using one of the smaller magnolias in that bed, adjacent to the weeping yaupon holly and tank - maybe 'Little Gem.'

I usually have a small nursery under the house - it's fairly well protected but the trellis would be useful there. We also have 5- 550 gallon storage tanks for rainwater under the deck. I like your idea of keeping the design but ditching the plants. Your list is good. I've been making some changes since last year but am still stumped in some areas. What trees would you plant in front of a house like this? I thought about the Nuttall oak - it doesn't mind wet feet and is sturdy. Or maybe one of the new red maples like 'October Glory'? A small magnolia?

Alabama - I am not familiar with Titi. I just started reading about it - it sounds promising. How do you use it? Do you know a source?

Many thanks,
Pam

Titi/cyrilla racemiflora grows on a small part of my property in the bottom of the hollow, Pam, and it's very lovely. I only see it growing naturally in very wet areas, so you'd need that type environment for it. One of my books describes its native range as "Acid swamps, bog stream banks, floodplains, along the coast from southern Virginia to east Texas, to the Caribbean and Brazil, Zones 8 to 11."
Another wet soil plant that grows here, but not on my personal property, is buckwheat tree/cliftonia monophylla. The growing conditions for this small tree are listed as "Wet, nonalluvial soils, acid swamps, bogs, flatwood depressions, coastal plain, Savannah, Georgia, and Jacksonville, Florida, to the Mississippi River, Zone 8."
I love native hollies, too, but American holly/ilex opaca is a slow growing tree on my property. Ilex coriacea grows faster, as does i. glabra, but they're not as attractive, at least to me.
Devilwood/osmanthus americanus grows here in a variety of situations, but the same book says, "Coastal plain from southeastern Virginia to southeastern Louisiana, Mexico, Zones 8 to 9." It grows fairly quickly here, and it's evergreen, makes a small tree.
Sweetleaf/symplocos tinctoria is another good one that grows pretty fast. It's growing area is described as "Sandhills, flatwoods, post oak woods, stable dunes, stream borders, floodplains, southeastern U.S., Zones 7 to 9." This one should do for you is you can find a place to buy it - Woodlanders used to carry it.
Witchhazel/hamamelis virginiana makes a small, deciduous tree that is very attractive. It reportedly grows in "Dry woods, rich woods, floodplains, creek swamps, evergreen bogs, eastern North America, Zones 5 to 8."
Halesia diptera or h. carolina, ilex decidua, and many of the viburnums, especially v. dentatum, v. nudum, v. rufidulum, and v. prunifolium, are all wonderful native plants, especially good for wildlife.
Of course, one way to handle this would be to look through the woods all around you, see what grows there, and plant that - your local natives can't be beat!
Hope this helps!
Sherry

Agree with dibbit. I can't really see what's going on underneath the deck, etc., because the photo is small, but I would probably pour a slab underneath the house (if there's not already one there), paint all the wood underneath the house the same color as the house, add some lattice work to hide storage areas, and paint that also. This would really lighten up the area underneath the house and make it look like it's sitting on the ground, rather than floating above the grass. Then for planting, I think good American Holly cultivars would give you the height (conical shape) you would need -- the foliage goes all the way to the ground. This would provide an anchoring feel. Also consider regular live oak, sand live oak, and red bay, twisted Hollywood juniper. Those are all for height. (Broad-leafed evergreens will make it look good year-round) For understory plants, Indian Hawthorn, pampas grass, pittosporum, Eleagnus, Jap. black pine, yucca gloriosa, Sabal minor. Those seem to be staples for windy coastal locations. Visit some homes along the Beach in north Virginia Beach to get some more ideas. See what you like and don't like. There are some real nice beach bungaloes with great landscaping. And it's really windy there.

Pam:

McLean sells mostly, or exclusively very small holly trees. But they can tell you who they sell to that grows larger stock. We bought very small ones, but one is now, after 5 years, about 10 feet tall. No problem with slow growth for us. the good thing about McLean is they offer a good number of different cultivars--I don't think you could find that amount of variety at any nursery that grows larger stock.

--Spruce

well .. your inability to give me a house type ...

made me google PICTURES OF HOUSES ON STILTS ... link to the images pages below ... 71,400 hits.. go figure ...

what is startling.. on the first 3 pages ... NO ONE HAS ANYTHING PLANTED UNDER OR NEAR THE HOUSES ...

the first thought that comes to mind to this landlocked landlubber gardener .... ARE YOU PREPARED TO LOSE YOUR ENTIRE GARDEN ... ONCE EVERY DECADE TO THE STORM FROM HELL???

AND ... IT BETTER ALL BE SALT TOLERANT ...

ok .. enough caps ... lol

you will probably have to rethink your entire gardening background.. and go in a direction that is completely new to you .... it actually sounds a bit exciting...

my one visit to the Atlantic.. i seem to recall rogusa roses growing on cape cod.... just a few feet from the sea ...

i am sure you have many, many options.. but probably in a completely different direction from where you gut wants to go ...

i also suspect ... clearance under the building is to allow the free flow of the surge .... you might want to research that aspect .... and not really plant things that grow to large.. that will potentially harm the structure ...

all pure speculation.. good luck

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Hi Pam,
I have wondered what you decided to do. There were a number of interesting comments to what appeared a near impossible problem. Hank

She did pretty good. This same thread essentially was also talked about on the conifers forum. She had some losses. She tagged each seedling as to where it was purchased and in some cases she actually obtained patterns of ones purchased from one place having better success rates than those purchased elsewhere. She had very good things to say about using a backpack sprayer which she purchased. She planted a hell of a lot of seedlings (500-1000??? I forget).

Maybe she'll chime in sometime and tell more as I'm sure I'm forgetting more details. She did use color coded flags for her seedlings as to place of purchase origin.

Dax

Hi all: Just got back from Long Island, last week S.C., week before was NH. I'm beat.

I want to do a progress report with pics but things change so fast. I planted over 1,000 seedlings in March and April, about 80% survived. The non-survivors came from two sources - they never leafed out so I think they were DOA. I want to plant at least 200+ seedlings in Dec - to replace the DOAs and increase diversity, but don't know if I'll have time. This is the crazy time of year for our business but fall-winter planting is superior to spring planting in this part of VA so I want to do it, even if I'm planting in the dark by the light of a headlamp. I've lost my mind!

I'll do another post soon. I have observations and questions (surprise!!). This has been a great learning experience and it's just beginning. I still have a couple of acres . . .

Pam