Agreed with digdirt. Happens all the time.

Dan

OK, thanks. I will open the bag and allow it to dry off, after we get rid of this rain! lol :)

kentstar

I am still not sure why anyone would pay money for something called "topsoil" when what their soil needs is organic matter, compost, etc., not more "soil".

Perhaps 'Topsoil' is shorthand for the product the OP purchased.

But rereading the comment, if the bed is adjacent to a lawn, you want the ruts to prevent the grass from moving into the bed. This is a trick that has been used for centuries to prevent the spread of turf into beds.

Dan

I buy topsoil all the time because my soil is rocks.

I used the topsoil because of the ruts. I had installed that red brick edging in a circular pattern around my rose Maria Stern. I was just filling around the "outside" of the circle where I had large ruts from the edger tool.

Since any "topsoil" is 95 percent mineral, something you already have plenty of even if you have really bad soil, and maybe 5 percent organic matter, which is most likely what your really bad soil needs badly, why spend your money on what you already have and not on what your soil needs, organic matter?

Organic matter rots and he is filling in holes around the edging.

Kentstar - Go ahead and buy topsoil to fill in ruts. Some people don't read well.

Personally, I would think you'd need "soil" to "fill in" ruts. No matter how much compost you make it won't turn in to "dirt".

Val

Where does that good "topsoil" in the forest come from? How is that made? What happens in the forest that would be different from what happens in your garden? What happens when you add compost to your soil? What is compost? What is organic matter? What makes a good loam better?
The answer to every question here is organic matter. Garden writers from Keith Baldwin to Masanoba Fukuoka have told us that what our soils need is organic matter.

Kimmsr, you're right of course, but he's not trying to build up soil fertility, he's trying to fill in a hole to make his lawn flat.

I've griped about hardware store soil and compost products for years. I agree with what digdirt said above and others echoed about manure getting wet abd anaerobic. My other pet peeve is "compost" products that turn out to be nothing but silt with maybe 5-10% organic matter. I've run into this a lot around here and the store managers just blow it off. You gotta poke the bag and check the product, especially at the lower end of the price range.

If you need fill, you need to buy dirt. No getting around it.

If you are making raised beds, filling hole, raising the grade, you need soil not compost.

Right, compost is something great to be "added" to the soil for raised beds, garden beds,etc. Here I am only filling in ruts. Why would I spend the extra money on compost (I can't compost where I live anyway) when I can spend less on topsoil? Yes, you should add OM to the garden, but here it is not in the garden, but outside the garden.

Note to the purists, your right. If your planting a garden, compost is best. If your filling in holes and ruts, topsoil or soil or small rock is best.

This year, I added two raised beds to my vegetable garden. In the past, I purchased the bagged topsoil and used it as a starting point to which I then added composted material to make good gardening soil. It may not sound good, but it works. The purchased topsoil in bags was of very good quality in the past, but for the last two years; Walmart, Lowes, and Home Depot had the same topsoil from the same supplier. If you read the small print on the bags, it is bagged and marketed by Scotts. The material for the last two years looks like junk they scrape up around construction sites. It has white soil that looks like caliche with about 50% sand and a few broken twigs they call "organic material". I understand when companies attempt to increase profits by reducing the quantity or quality of a product they market for a given price. I just never thought they would lower the quality of dirt to increase profits.

I'm starting a new compost pile this year to add too the "topsoil", but when you reach a certain age; you possibly can't wait long for the compost to mature.

Ted

tedln,

I used the same method with my rasied beds. We built the beds and used the Sta-Green Veggie mix the first year. Veggies were massive!

That winter, I shredded leaves and composted directly into the beds. In the spring added more soil and mixed everything well. Same results!

This past winter same thing, except for composting directly (we now have a small bin for that), I added the shredded leaves. So now I will add a couple bags of the veggie soil mix to freshen everything up and add a bag or two of store bought compost (mine is not ready yet!) and I should be good to go.

Soil is the foundation to grow things. It is what you add to the soil that gives you varied results. Add nothing, get minnmal results. Add organic matter, get much better results! Pretty simple concept.

I bought a couple bales of potting soil from Costco and don't like the smell of it either. Sort of a cross between wood chips and manure which is probably what it is - and not completely composted. Since I'm not driving 2+ hours each way to return it I'll use it somehow but I'm not thrilled and they'll hear from me.

Several years ago I bot (from Costco) potting soil that was good. Wish one could depend on these companies for quality products. I know if enough of us complain it will make a difference.

I got some top soil from Orchard, I like it find. Sure it does smell but just add it, and you will see it will decompose more then no more smell. It will work find.

Organic material will help your lawn. It will increase the life span of your lawn. I had a sod lawn for like 8 years, then it just died out. The soil was very depleted underneath, but the one part I had added lots of organic matter lived longer and stayed greener over all. It was a patch that had been dead before I reseeded and added organics. I know it's kind of expensive, but organic matter is worth it. You mix the organics with the top soil.

I'm so glad to find this topic. I bought two bags of The organic Valley Potting Soil from Lowes to mix with other soils to use in a small raised bed I was going to grow greens in. We first noticed the smell, like gasoline, on the way home. The kids thought maybe we'd spilled gasoline in the car from a gas can for mowing. When I opened one bag today it smelled HORRIBLE. Like gasoline or burnt rubber. I went ahead, against my better judgement and poured a bag into the raised bed, thinking the smell would get better as I mixed it with other components . I also potted some seedlings up and used this soil and noticed I can't get that gasoline smell off my hands ! I called Lowes, and they said if I would dig all of that potting soil back out of the bed I put it in, and brought the bags back in, they would swap them out. They didn't seem at all concerned about the smell. I buy at least two bags of potting soil a week to use as I set up at markets with my plants and am always needing it and have never smelled anything so horrible. I'm going to take it out of the bed I put it in, and Put it somewhere, but nowhere near anything I'm going to grow something in that is to eat.

Gasoline? That's disturbing.

I agree. If I fill a hole with organic matter, it rots and the hole is back within 6 months or a year. Only soil will permanently fill it in and not disappear.

Karen

Hi, I'm new here, (and accepting any critiques on how to use forums! :) But I read your post, and wanted to add 2 things: For one, I did also end up with some utterly lousy bags of store bought topsoil which seemed to be half clay, half scary sewage smell. I had not poked the bags, and never thought of doing so, so will take this advice next time! Cannot recall bag name, but was purchase at either HD r Lowe's. However! I also purchased "Composted Peat" from Lowe's last yr, and it was most excellent. My elephant ears, rex & rhizomatous begonias & subtropicals did outstandingly well, awesome, even with last summer's drought and heat. The jungle curve was fabulous, just beautiful! (all survived the winter indoors, so will be planting out again soon:)

As for not purchasing bagged topsoil, there are times you just need to, especially in a smaller urban yard..such as under a tree with yrs of graveled driveway and clay.. The organic matters take time, and still need real dirt to set with. I find it a ruesome task to try to mix sand in myself, and get it evenly distributed without globs and pockets, amidst the clay clods. It might be impatient of me, but when I wanted to put in my subtropicals curving bed, I pitched boxes of gravel ridden clay clods, and replaced with topsoils, and this great composted peat, which i hope to obtain more of this yr. for enriching other areas :) cheers!

People buy topsoil because they don't have years to amend the clay they are dealing with. Composting takes a few months and while it's cooking, it shrinks to nothing. I'm all for composting and I do it, but some gardeners can get a little too anal about it.

Buy the topsoil if you need a quick fix!!

I noticed that Wal-marts topsoil that is $1.24 a bag makes me think of sewer sludge mixed with sand. I had to fill in a raised bed with 3-4 ft of soil. Some (most) brand name stuff is mostly OM. If I could've found regular soil and mixed with OM that would've been perfect but I didn't have access to clean mineral soil. I am not using the stinky stuff for food, so I'm not worried about pathogens.

Most of this bad smelling stuff will correct itself when it's out of the plastic bag and allowed to get some air. After a few days it will become more aerobic and the smell will dissipate. Next year you won't remember what it was like coming out of the bag. Not that I'm a great fan of this stuff, it's crappy that they sell it in that condition.

I can't smell any stench now after a few days anyway. There was some green mossy stuff in it so I would agree with anaerobic conditions definitely.

When you go to any store that sells bagged soil you are buying something that might resemble soil. Even if the manufacturer labels it "topsoil" it is not very likely that it is. Since there are no laws regulating the sale of soil the manufacturer is free to call it whatever they wish, "Topsoil", "Garden Soil", or just soil and it is simply just soil.

If you see a 2 cubic foot bag of soil for $1.24 and another for $5.98 buy the least expensive one since there will be little difference between them in reality. Understand too that this material sits around for quite some time in all kinds of conditions and can become anaerobic so it should never be put down where it will be used until it has adjusted to the environment it will be in.

Keep in mind that "Caveat emptor" (Let the buyer beware) applies.

kimmq is kimmsr

I don't trust anything labelled "topsoil". As noted, it can be anything that the vendor happened to find laying on top of the ground, perhaps with some attractive additions like unknown amounts of peat and compost. Ideally something cheap. If you have access to real soil, then just improve it with compost. Or just buy potting soil, which at least can be judged by how well it works with potted plants.

Although I have asked numerous times here that people recommending buying "topsoil" define what "topsoil" is few are able. Some tell us they cannot define it but know what it is when they see it. There are numerous definitions available on line

"Topsoil n. The upper layer of soil at a given location, usually containing significantly more organic matter than is found in lower layers." The free Dictionary.

And I have posted this link that, apparently, few have bothered to read and understand.

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/the_shocking_truth_about_topsoil

As I have said many times "Topsoil" is a meaningless term.

kimmq is kimmsr

These products vary regionally and during the season as well. All Lowes topsoil is not made in one place and shipped all over the country. It's made by regional vendors and put into Lowes bags. Probably Lowes has some kind of basic minimal standards for % soil, % organics, what type of organics, max sieve size, etc. But there is a lot of room for variation within those specs.

The point is, if you buy a bag at one store at a certain time and don't like the contents, it's probably not appropriate to apply that experience nationally.

I always recommend examining the contents while you're shopping so you get what you are looking for. I've found bags of 'compost' with more soil than the bags of 'topsoil' next to them. Price is not always an accurate measure either.

Okay, guys so lets say I go to a "Rural King" a new farm and garden chain in the SW Pa area. And I buy a bag of compost, I actually bought Topsoil, but, if I bought something listed as "Compost" would I likely REALLY get compost? I've used the topsoil to transplant nursery plants and it looked like black soil, but, after reading above I think next year I'll be buying the bagged Compost. I am out of my own compost, and will be starting my new batch soon.

I think the point is that "compost" has some real meaning. It is organic material that has been chewed on by bacteria to release nitrogen and break down the fibers. Topsoil is just something they scraped off the top of some surface somewhere, and maybe added a bit of nice stuff like peat or compost. It could be high quality growing medium, or it might not.

I'd be careful about "black soil." Lots of things can make soil black, not all of which is good. But if you mean it looked like your topsoil had a lot of composted organics in it, then maybe you lucked out.

Yes, I would say if you buy compost, you get compost.

Okay Dan, that sounds good, I do know I did purchase a bag of topsoil that reminded me of sewage sludge, but, I didn't really ever see sewage sludge. It was what I imagined sewage sludge would look and feel like. That was almost a decade ago anyway, and is still in the bottom of that raised bed, no harm no foul so far. But anyways, I will be starting my own new batch of compost soon. I have a large "Compost Tumbler" the big green tumblers. I didn't start a new one last year, but, had a big batch the year before. I'm starting out with coffee grounds from the house and will go to a close by donut and coffee house. I am not sure if I'll have any fall leaves left over after using many for mulch under a couple oak trees here. I should add most to the compost tumbler I guess.

poaky, as I stated in the post above yours, what's in the bag is going to vary somewhat, so check before buying.

A few years back I actually did a study by purchasing about 20 bagged compost products locally and having them tested for moisture, organic matter, NPK and micronutrients. The results were quite interesting. Some of the products actually had very little organic matter - the dry weight (after removing moisture) had a very high percentage of mineral matter which essentially = soil. The results varied a lot and did not always correlate to price. The best overall commercial product was a moderately priced cotton burr compost which had very high organic matter content and also high NPK numbers. The only thing that beat it was...wait for it...my own homemade compost. Word to the wise: make your own if you can.

Wow, that's interesting. I've never seen commercial compost that looked like it didn't have much organic matter, but maybe if you shop around ... Certainly words to the wise. Maybe some judgement about buying from "reputable sources"? Exactly right that when you make it, you know exactly what's in it.

There are no standardized rules governing bagged soil products (topsoil, garden soil, potting soil, mulch, compost, etc.) so there could be anything in those bags!! Some states do have regulations regarding compost manufacture and will require a listing of ingredients (very generalized or in some cases, only what they DON'T include) but that too is not a uniform application. And most of these products tend to be regional in origin - no one bags up topsoil or compost in California and ships it to Maine!! There is really no way to tell what you are getting unless you examine the product first hand.

There really is some value to the notion that you get what you pay for ;-) The cheapest bag of topsoil or compost will probably be a much more inferior product than the more expensive ones but not necessarily. If you are forced to purchase a bag product over bulk - always preferable economically as well as being able to actually see, touch and sniff the stuff - then find a local brand that matches your requirements and stick with it. There can be variability with this method as well but you can expect a much more uniform product overall.

The bottom line is that you really need to see what you are buying before you buy.

If not bought in bulk, it would be nice if there were a bin in front of the display, so you could run your hand through what you were buying. Pretty much impossible to gauge the value of soil products by looking and feeling through plastic.

I usually look for a torn bag or if there isn't one, my finger may accidentally poke a hole in a bag while I'm looking. Oops.

When buying soil or compost the operative words are "Caveat emptor", let the buyer beware.

kimmq is kimmsr

I have an unopened bag of "Topsoil" in my car. I may not open it until spring. I'm thinking of maybe mixing some of it with some bagged compost from Walmart that is supposed to "the good stuff" with the worm castings included. Mostly for planting shade perennials that like woodsy soil. I've been spreading shredded fall leaves in the area. I will be making a new batch in my Compost tumbler soon. I already bought the thing, I know people don't need to buy the big tumblers to compost, but, I have it already. I'm saving coffee grounds now, I'll be hitting up a donut shop that used to give me a bucket of grounds if I got there before they dumped them. I have a big bag of peat moss that is opened but still quite full, I'll be adding some of that to the compost Tumbler also. I know about peat not being the best to be using because of being said to not be renewable by some, and being okay by others. I'm guessing it depends on where the source is. I'm going to look up peat moss as a new thread because I'm sure it's already covered on this thread/forum site. I do know that it is a great source of building "humus" because it's already broken down as far as it will ever be. But, we should all still use leaves and wood shaving etc, still.

Using that bag for winter ballast in the trunk? Not a bad idea! More useful than sand I would say.

Back in the olden days when cars were mostly rear wheel drive putting some weight in the trunk to help traction made some sense. Today, with most cars front wheel drive, putting a weight in the trunk can take weight off the front drive wheels making handling on snow covered roads more treacherous. It is kind of like taking your foot off the accelerator when you begin to skid, as I was taught many eons ago, which in a front wheel drive vehicle can cause a bigger skid (the drive wheels act as brakes).

kimmq is kimmsr

I had 2 bags of topsoil left over from a project so I left them beside the garden shed for future use. The bags got damaged and hundreds of nutgrass sprouted from the tears. I checked my customer's bed and found nutgrass. When I called Scotts customer service I was told it wasn't unusual to find viable seed in topsoil and compost. One more reason to stay away from imported soil products.

Well composted material shouldn't have a lot of viable seeds, but soil scraped off the top somewhere is going to have everything in it. Not just topsoil imported into your yard, but soil you scrape off the top of somewhere else in your yard.

As to traction, I guess if you're stuck in a snowdrift, you can pull out the topsoil and throw it under the wheels. It's probably the cheapest stuff you can buy in a storable bag for that purpose. Hey, it's dirt-cheap!

Do you really think so Dan? I never thought of it like that. I was thinking along the lines of bringing new and/or hard to control weeds into my landscape. I suppose it's like crossing the street against traffic control light,we are bound to die one day any how so what's the difference.

Well, that's a good point. You're not just bringing weeds into your yard by bringing topsoil from some other site, but you're bringing *different* weeds into your yard. Basically seeding your yard with new weeds.

Well guys, I left the bag in the car because the barn is crammed with stuff now and I would have to put it on the dirt floor in there, that means holes in the bag by next spring likely etc. I use my hatchback like a truck sorta, the back seats have been folded down for the 10 years since I bought it new, long story short, it's just better it stays in there til spring.

kimmsr is right about FWD cars. Around these parts there are a lot of rear wheel drive pickups. Some people drive around with half a load of firewood in there all winter, or if it snows, they just fill it up with packed snow. Ironically it's usually the SUVs you see in the ditch. It's not just the vehicle that determines winter driving effectiveness, it's the driver + vehicle combo. But I digress. And yes sand is handy for helping with traction.

Wow, this site has been here for 11 years. Every complaint under the sun and not one real solution to the problem of companies like HD and Lowes getting by with selling trash for what they call "Top Soil". I own a resort where we have no less than 2 acres of landscaped flower beds and 80 foot trees. I have been buying "top soil" from the two companies mentioned as well as from Walmart and one or two feed stores. I realize that top soil is not garden or potting soil, but I have been using it for planting and bedding material for over 35 years. I have gotten buy with using it in a mix of approximately 1/2 topsoil, 1/3 cow manure, one or two 2 lb coffee cans of peat moss and a can or two of vermiculite. This has given me tremendous success in planting everything from maple trees and crepes to using it to "enrich" the soil around a bulb. I have seen a great deviance in quality of "Top Soils", but have never seen anything like is being offered over the last 6 months. I usually buy 40 - 80 bags at a time, several times a year. I have used some for filling holes and dispersing it over soil that needs a little help with creating runners in the likes of Bermuda. But it is mostly used as stated above.

In the last 4 months I have never experienced a "top soil" that has actually tainted the surrounding soil to a point that you cannot even grow a rye seed mix with fescue in it. Everything it touches gets killed or at least strained to the point of withering away. At first, I thought it might be one lot of soil that came in, but subsequent lots were contaminated as well. If you go back an read one lady's complaint about her Top soil smelling like gas, it tells me that the main problem with today's soil has been around for sometime. It has been mentioned that decomposition of manure and products like moss, or wood shavings may play a roll. Maybe so, but I suggest all you have to do is to wonder what is happening to the thousands of miles of road surface that has been hauled away during the repaving of our black top roads? Could it be that the petroleum odor is coming from ground up tar. Same color and everything. Most important, have you ever seen grass seed grow on the blacktop surface? Poor a little oil over your fresh seed and see if it grows. One final observation. Someone said to cut open the bags and let them dry out. Try it with todays "Top Soil" and you will end up with a brick. I used some to freshen up my Xmas poinsettias. When it dried, water would not penetrate it.

When customer service was approached and aske to take it back, the answer was the same as it was years ago. Bring it back in the bag it came in and they will refund it. Right!! Beware, the "topsoil" you may be buying today is not suitable for use in a planting mix. I doubt you will be able to use it with out your skin burning and your nose running. I wish I had an alternative. Lowes did.....buy the mix already in the bag at a cost of 3 - 4 times the cost of today's Top soil.

Captainjim