When do Oct. Glories start producing viable seed?

14 years ago

First time poster, love the forum, have been reeding for years, and finally pulled the trigger on becoming a member this season, given the scope of my horticultural endeavors...

Background: I work at a local nursery part time during the growing season and last fall acquired 2 park grade Oct. Glory maples that were destined for our local hospital, but returned due to an overestimate in quantity. Trees were 2-3" in caliper, 15' tall, and in 20 gallon pots. Root growth was profuse and borderline bound. I planted the trees in November and after a couple weeks contemplating how bound they were, I decided to dig them up again and be more aggressive in liberating the roots (after reading up on Acer root pruning). Trees are planted on the front lawn as street trees, 25' back from the road and 40' spacing between the two. Area around each tree was worked roughly 10' in diameter using my own soil mix recipe, which is pretty close to what our nursery uses (Loam). Trees are mulched with pine bark at a depth of 3-4" around the area I worked. We have mostly clay here, so after the root spread gets out of that area, it will be a clay. Furthermore, we have a creek out front, and knowing how most maples like water, the placement is about 10' from the bank of the creek.

Question: When do these trees start producing viable seed? I am not worried about actual seed crops for the sake of reproducing new trees, rather the health of my existing ones. The two trees I planted each have a couple flowers, about half way up and protruding directly from the central leader. The terminal buds appear healthy (green when you break off one), but there are only a couple flowers. Knowing that this is a Red/Sugar cross, my initial thoughts were a

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Comments (7)

enc_clover_farmer
Original Author
14 years ago
were 7 years till seed... Is this accurate? The branching is almost textbook, but the absence of flowers concerns me. Am I just over reacting; probably so? Thanks!
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
hey

welcome ..

God's honest truth on a recent transplant.. who knows ....

some trees/conifers are so stressed .... they react by producing a ton of seeds or cones/seeds ... others wont do it for years ....

that said... do you figure your 2 to 3 inch caliper might already be a decade old.. minimum 5 years ... so why should it not produce, presuming it was properly cared for in ground.. prior to potting.. or for its whole life in a pot ... what i am trying to say.. is you really dont know where it is.. in its voyage to sexual maturity ...

so when would even start counting the 7 years you refer to ... do we count .... from birth.. from first field planting.. from transplanting to the pot.. or from your root surgery and planting ...

so.. full circle.. who knows ...

it sounds like it was in a pretty small pot for the size of tree your describe.. i would guess it is going to take 3 to 5 years to get 'established' [ growth of its root mass to match the tree above] ... and if i had to bet money ... it will be that long before you get a full crop of seeds ... at a minimum ..

flowers this spring can be aborted ... and you may get some sporadic seeds ...

etc ....

over-reacting.. YEP!!!! .... just be happy its alive ... lol ... think of it this way.. no matter its size.. you have a new born ... sexual maturity is in the teens .. you have a long way to go.. to grow the root mass... for it to recover the capacity to become fully .. sexually active ... to mix.. just a few metaphors.. lol ...

be glad it leafed out.. and worry about flowers in a few years ...

good luck.. even if it is a maple

ken
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t bob, that's good feedback on my feedback. I guess the ultimate solution is, one does whatever will work in the area you happen to live in. Somewhere on the arctic circle is some guy with no web access to Garden Web and no information growing a jalapeno and getting a pod or two...LOL I heard the "55 rule" from a grower at a big nursery here called Debaggios. I was looking to do an early to mid May transplant, and he said, no, wait for consistent > 55 nighttime temperatures, to around May 20. He was right...my earlier plants had fewer and smaller pods than the ones that waited for the higher nighttime temperatures. We recently had 2 nights in the 40's and that seemed to bring the pod growth to a screetching halt. They were happily producing a robust 2nd harvest until those cold nights last week, but they really seem to have called it quits now in terms of new growth. However, along the lines of your post, I think one can get wrapped too tightly around the web-recommended metrics when you just have to try things out to see what happens. For instance, I read from many sources that peppers want 6-8 hours of direct sun, and won't even waste their time with less than 4-5 hours. Well, I only have 50 square feet available that gets 5 hours of direct sun. Another 10 sf that gets 3 hours, and then around 60 sf that gets no more than 2. That latter area is trapped between a house and woods, blocking the sun except between 11:30 to 1 pm, but is the largest space I have for gardening. And guess what, every single square foot on my property produced peppers this year. Now, the area with the real sunlight produced more, better peppers. But even the area with the 1.5 to 2 hrs of direct sun produced a fatali with > 40 pods, a Jaloro with > 30, a handfull of cayennes and serranos with 10-15, and a yellow drop with 20. So it can be done, if not perfectly, the moral of the story being to give it a shot and see what happens. Zenit: I think if you grow indoors under really good lights it'd probably be OK to start some super-early to see what happens. Here's the experience I had growing indoors with plenty of lead time (around 11-12 weeks). My lights were weak. So the plants got super-super leggy and tall. Then, when they were transplanted, they stayed with that theme of growing up and up and up. I have several 6 foot tall peppers that are supposed to be 24-36 inches. But that is not a good thing. That unusual vertical growth comes at the expense of filling out the foliage in the middle, and ultimately leads to low yield / small pods. Thus, I had a half dozen plants this year that were taller than me and yielded 5 to 8 pods, instead of the expected 25-30. So.....it's worth trying as an experiment, but mother nature's design is hard to mess with successfully. She wants to see 8 to 10 week old plants at transplant. It all comes down to the lighting - you need a strong light, right in the face of those plants; every inch away from the leaves that those lights are will cost you severely in terms of legginess and, down the road, poor pod development. The young plants crave sun, and they react strangely to 0.01 of sun, which it seems is what a cheap flourescent light too far away from the leaves delivers. But good luck and do share your results here if you try it
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sam_md
14 years ago
"Knowing that this is a Red/Sugar cross...."
I've never heard of a red/sugar cross. Acer rubrum 'October Glory' is a popular cultivar of Red Maple. It should really be called November Glory because the November color some years is fire engine red, other years not so much.
The seed matures in May around here. I wouldn't concern myself with seed production. They're easy to grow, keep an eye on your trees, they will be fine.
Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
14 years ago
My generic Arbor Day Foundation Acer Rubrum produced its first samaras two years ago, making it at about 5 or 6. Fella had been in the ground about 4 years and was planted as a typical 3 foot tall Arbor Day twig. I suppose about 8 feet in height and possibly 2" caliper.
Embothrium
14 years ago
Planting with same soil throughout rooting area is better.

'PNI 0268' (October Glory is a registered trademark and not a cultivar name), being a grafted clone should often fruit younger than a seed-raised specimen might.

Flemer said in the patent description that this was a seedling of 'Columnare' (Arnold Arboretum form). 'Columnare' is ~male, maybe the "Arnold Arboretum form" was a female version.
Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
14 years ago
Don't worry about it. It'll get there. If you had a stressful season since planting, that could set it back. Not a big deal.

Dan
arktrees
14 years ago
We planted two Sugar maples, Bailsta (Fall Fiesta), and Commemoration from containers at approximately 1" and 1.5" caliper respectively. The FF was planted at a time more favorable for establishment, and in somewhat better circumstances. It flowered and fruited the second growing second. Both and grew much more the second growing season. Also of note, that they did not produce much in way for fall color until the pasted fall, and then I don't believe it was completely normal as of yet, but getting there. The Commemoration has yet to flower, though I believe both will this season (see buds swelling that I believe to be flower buds). So the take home would seem to be, that you probable won't see much in way of seeds until your trees are fully "established" where they are "feeling" pretty comfortable and growing well again. Same for the fall color.

Arktrees

When do Oct. Glories start producing viable seed?

Comments (7)

enc_clover_farmer
Original Author

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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When do Oct. Glories start producing viable seed?

Comments (7)

enc_clover_farmerOriginal Author

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Related Discussions

sam_md

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis

Embothrium

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

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enc_clover_farmer
Original Author