Thanks for your help, suggestions and encouragement. I'm sorry I wasn't able to respond promptly. We put out a new product this week - this involves a great deal of extra time and work for everyone. Getting back to the subject - Spruce: I'm sure you think I'm a nut case or an idiot but some of these concepts are difficult to grasp and internalize until you observe them firsthand. I've read about forest succession and how it unfolds over hundreds of years but I've never observed it nor have I tried to create a forest. I'm trying to find ways to bypass some stages - as you say "trying to grow a forest that is like a mid or late stage in the forest succession, without going through all the stages that lead up to it." At times, I've been confused by conflicting advice - for example, whether to use loblollies as a nurse tree. In any group, people will disagree. It's my responsibility to find more information to resolve the question or clarify the issue. I asked our forester this question. He advised me to use loblollies as nurse trees until oak seedlings are 3-4 feet tall - once they reach that height, the pines may cast too much shade. If this happens, they need to be removed. In another thread, you also recommended using black locusts as nurse trees, chopping them back as needed, so I did order black locusts. Given the type of shade they cast, it may not be necessary to remove them - I'll wait and see. Alabama & Sherry: Thanks for the posts about hardwoods growing under and around pines. I was beginning to think I'd lost my mind. I've decided that trees grow differently around the country and under different conditions - and that there are no one-size-fits-all answers to questions. Sherry: Why do I think you just got your 2008 FF catalog? So did I but I'm afraid to open it - too much going on right now. The seedlings I ordered from the NC nursery arrived 3 days ago - 2 weeks early - and they sent an additional 200 Atlantic white cedars that I didn't order. I've called but haven't heard back from them so I'm trying to keep the cedars cool. You said you ordered two nyssa biflora/swamp blackgum from FF. How would you describe these trees? I ordered 20 nysssa biflora seedlings, in addition to 50 Nyssa sylvatica seedlings. I have a wet area and thought N. biflora would be happy there, along with bald cypresses, Atlantic white cedars, maybe some red maples. I'm not familiar with the the Jefferson Elm. I'm working on an order from Mail Order Natives (I am a nut case!). In addition to Carpinus caroliniana, I'm looking at A. saccharum var. floridana, Acer saccharum var. leucoderme (Chalk maple), and Pistachia chinensis (Chinese pistache). She has Magnolia asheii - that's been on my list for years, and Magnolia macrophylla (Big Leaf Magnolia) but I think they both need more shade and protection than I can offer right now. I really need some big fast growing Magnolia grands to screen my neighbor's sheds across the pond. QM: I haven't received the seedlings from Indian Mound yet. They should arrive around Feb 15. But NC sent seedlings two weeks early so you never know. I'll let you know when they arrive. Take care, Pam

Today I spent a couple of hours at the US National Arboretum in Wash DC. Even though I have never been interested in conifers I did spend some time in their pinetum. I looked it over carefully and finally asked for examples of Chamaecyparis lawsoniana Not a single specimen in the Gotelli Collection nor anywhere else. We had a thread some time ago about this. For some reason Lawson Cypress doesn't like central & eastern US. No doubt that's why so many of us in the US were clueless as to the proper ID. In the pics, Lawson Cypress seems right at home on the Emerald Isle, no blarney.

The jelly bean idea is out. ====>>>> HOORAY!!!!! but I'm not sure how well that would look with darker colored mulch. Light colored mulch you couldn't really tell since it matches the dry soil more. ===>>>> if you go with an artificial colored mulch.. then you will have to retop it every year.. or buy spray ... and respray it every year ... over the years i found that NATURAL MULCH ... turns a natural color.. and mimics nature.. and avoid a lot of make-work ... in fact.. all my mulch comes from local tree guys .... ITS NATURAL ... get the point .. lol ... Now I have a $300 edger that I have never used ===>>> not really.. what you do within eyesight of the deck.. can be wildly different that what you do 500 feet back ... and lol on edging once per year ... yeah.. you work on that assumption ... lol ... NOT!!!! As far as designing past the septic right now... I think I'll hold off ===>>>>> HMMMM ... there are things that will become the BACKBONES or structure of your future ... like trees ... and perhaps.. you could plant some way out back ... and get a head start ... might only need a 3 foot circle... and PROPER WATERING OF TREES ... includes NEAR drying in between watering .. with proper mulch ... its not like you will need to be out there 3 times per week ... the best money you might spend.. would be a one inch water supply pipe.. 650 feet straight out the back .... where you could put a spigot very 50 or 75 feet .... trust me.. its much easier to drag a 50 foot section of hose ... rather than 700 feet ... in fact.. if you have a compressor ... and can blow out the pipe in Oct .... it doesnt even need to be buried .... a lot of mine.. is simple buried in the mulch in various beds ... even just getting the house connectors.. and putting in a supply to the drain field ... would be a good start ... as you can add to the system later .... i paid a guy.. 500 bucks.. to 'pull in' [not trench] about 2000 feet of pipe [i bought the pipe] .. based on my design .. and he showed me how to make one connection ... and i did all the rest.. think spigots in a cemetery ... in the alternative.. perhaps a water tank for your rider might be an investment .... refresh my memory.. where are you???? ken

Never plant the tall Mexican ruellia in Houston! ( I like the short clumping Katy ruellia.) That plant is the curse of my garden. My master gardener friend gave me on purple and one white. the purple has marched more than 1/2 way around the fence borders. She failed to mention that she pulled them all the time and her many paved pathways helped to keep them contained. I sprayed it with Round Up and it shot seeds at me and made popcorn sounds. (That hurt, too!) They grow 7 ft tall in up through my lemonade honeysuckle vine and laugh at me over the tops of the suburban fences. I have pull and paid others hundreds of dollars to pull and they keep coming back, since they also send out awful runners. This plant survived the poison ivy and brush killer and Ground Clear, as did wedellia. The wedellia was gone for three year, cam back and jumped to another bed. I would pour gasoline on them both if I knew that would kill them. The wedellia roots where it the leaf nodes touch the ground and smothered my daylilies.