Reine des Violettes

17 years ago

I have been trying to find the best purple climbing rose that is a repeat bloomer, that has no thorns.

I have narrowed my search to Reine des Violettes.

To hit the top of my arched arbor the canes would have to reach 11 feet. If they do reach 11 feet and I planted one on each end, the whole arch would be covered. It would have to hold it's own intertwined with the wisteria.

Am I on the right track?

Any other suggestions?

Right now I have a white 4 petal climber that has a very short bloom season (1-2 weeks). It has no fragrance to speak of, and the thorns attempt to tear your flesh off any chance they get. I used to sand down the points on the thorns that hit below 5' so my children would not be harmed. I feel guilty killing it, because it is at least 60 years old. It has a gnarly base that is about 4 feet in diameter. I would have to dynomite it out, but I am sick of letting this rose run my life and my arbor.

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Comments (14)

spanaval
17 years ago
RdV, to my knowledge, does not get beyond 5 or 6 ft. tall. Then again, you're in CA, and it might as well be Mars, 'cause roses tend to behave differently than they do elsewhere.

I am also concerned about the ability of a good majority of roses (vigorous climbers and rambers excluded) to successfully compete with Wisteria, unless you provide a lot of help by hacking the Wisteria back.

RdV has always looked like it is pink with a blue or purple cast to me. Nothing like a more purple rose, like Veilchenblau.
Molineux
17 years ago
I don't know ANY climbing rose that can hold its own with wisteria. Well perhaps one of the Banksiae roses, but none of them repeat bloom. They are nearly thornless though. Good luck with your search, because you are gonna need it.
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That did occur to me also, Christopher. But the description was written by Charles Lemaire, an eminent botanist, who vouches that the illustration is an accurate depiction of the rose. That same illustration is then referred to in the same German publication that says the rose has a red center and no thorns. I think that's weird, but I also think it points to the primary source as being considered reputable. And it seems unlikely to me that the description and illustration would be published without feedback/ correction from the breeder, given that this was a cultivar being advertised for sale for the first time. And the publisher of L'Illustration horticole was also selling the rose- introducing it in Belgium. If you can find a retraction or correction, that would indeed be of interest. But assuming that you doubt the original description, the question is: does the modern version of RdV have a red or crimson center? No- so far as I can see, it has a white or whitish center. So either you go with the very first description and illustration introducing a red-thorned 'RdV' to the world, or you go with the thornless rose with the red or crimson center. Neither of these early descriptions quite fit what is in commerce today. At this point, I'm mostly curious about why RdV disappeared to the point that her absence was lamented in the 1904 Journal des Roses, but she is now one of the more famous of the old rose cultivars. I think it is a false assumption that RdV has been popular and available continuously since her introduction in 1860. I want to search American catalogs (or any catalogs, but I seem to mostly only have access to American ones via the Biodiversity Heritage Library) to see who carried it and when. I know that Peter Henderson Nursery of NYC carried RdV from 1872-1880 (and possibly before, but the earliest catalog I find is 1872). Her absence from other catalogs is remarkable. She is also listed in the 1880 Baudriller catalogue (Angers, France). I'm hoping to get a better feel for who liked her, who sold her, did she really disappear and- if so- when did her 20th C. revival begin, and who began it? If anyone knows of a free online source for old British/European nursery catalogs, I'd appreciate a heads up. Virginia
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Witchygirl -- yes, many purple tones in roses are lost on digital cameras. It's tough to capture them, but I've found that I come close on overcast days, or when the sun has passed the spot I'm trying to capture. And it's not just purples -- many dark-red and crimson roses are also "destroyed" by digital cameras, coming out with fiery red tones instead. I, too, have wondered after the fact about roses I passed over because their HMF pictures showed inaccurate color. Purlisa -- 'Lady Hillingdon' died a couple years ago. I experimented with planting Teas and Chinas outdoors here, and came to learn what is needed to keep them alive through our Winters. Basically, it's at least one of two things. The first would be a protected spot, such as the south-facing side of the house where I planted 'Napoleon' (which is now over seven feet tall), "Dutch Fork China", 'Perle d'Or', and 'Cramoisi Superieur'. This option minimizes what Winter will take away. The second option is forsaking a protected area but providing full-sun all day during the growing season, along with ample water and nutrients. This will allow for maximum growth to replace what the previous Winter took away. This is where my "Bermuda Spice" grows. The south-facing bed also offers full-sun all day, so not only do the roses there escape much Winter damage, they also got big rather fast. Unfortunately, 'Lady Hillingdon' -- just a few feet away from "Bermuda Spice" -- was in a spot with midday shade, which increased as the years progressed and a cut-back tree regrew. Each Spring, there was less of it left than the year before, and the same for what it grew by the end of the season. Finally, one year it just didn't return. I realize now where to put Teas, and where I put 'Lady Hillingdon' would have been better for 'Francesca', a Hybrid Musk which offers a similar color and habit (here, anyway). :-) ~Christopher
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Your RDV definitely has spider mites, but the photo you show isn't one of them. They are tiny, usually reddish, and hard to see. You see the damage and the webs more than the mites. They love it hot and dry. Usually you can bring them under control by a daily hard spray of water (being sure to wet all the undersides of the leaves); twice a day if you can get around to it. But be careful not to get the soil too wet while doing it. You don't want to drown her while treating the mites, lol. I've been known to lay pots on their side and spray the plant without wetting the soil. Your RDV may be too big/awkward for that, though. EDIT: Also, for future reference, that is a lovely pot she's in, but it will be very difficult to get her out of it when it's time to re-pot or plant in the ground. I never plant anything but annuals in pots that are smaller at the top than at the bottom, as once the roots fill out the soil in the pot, they become a "plug" that keeps you from removing the plant. You'll have to sacrifice a lot of the root ball, and/or possibly the pot itself, to get her out. :( John
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mikentx
17 years ago
It's a pouty thing here. Regretting it. I also agree that it's more pink than purple. First rose to get blackspot this spring and not yet fully recovered. Still looks like a tiny band in it's second year. Feh.

It's not a climber and will not be able to compete with wisteria at all. The only rose I have that is growing with wisteria (and there are 7 different wisterias on my property, so I have the opportunity!) is Fortune's Double Yellow on a huge pergola. And even that monster needs help to keep the wisteria from winning.
medusa_
17 years ago
My 5 year old Reine did not have canes past 5-6 ft, but I'm zone 7. And don't even think about wisteria. Noxious weed when it's not contained and hacked. I've got some trained as standards, sort of, and they're pleasant, but all the rest are in a constant death struggle (and I'm the one that's losing)
poodlepup
Original Author
17 years ago
I will hack the wisteria back to allow for the new rose. (The wist's base camp is at the other end of the arbor), and I'll give up on purple and choose another color.

Thanks
jerijen
17 years ago
Ours never grew canes beyond 6-7 feet, and more often less. In our climate, it really WAS purple, most of the time -- well, mixed shades of lavender would be more accurate. It does go pink in hot weather.

If Poodlepup wants a purple climber, there is Carruth's 'Night Owl,' which is truly PURPLE. But it has prickles. Most do.

Purple, vigorous, AND NO prickles -- that's a pretty tough combination of requirements.

We grow Wisteria here in coastal California, and it is by NO means an aggressive plant. Of course, it is spring-blooming only. I suppose it's a question of what wisteria, but ours is quite contained. I wish I could say the same for morning glory!

Jeri Jennings
buford
16 years ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>morning glory
jerijen
16 years ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>morning glory*** Sort of like Junior Kudzu.

Jeri
gnabonnand
16 years ago
A thornless climber that repeat blooms? Geez, I'd pick Reine des Violettes in a heartbeat. Not a true climber, but mine grew to over 6 ft in its first year last year. I love my RdV. Mine is purple, or nearly so, in spring & fall, and more pinkish in our hot summer weather. Just for the record, I like RdV way too much to ever plant it anywhere near a wisteria.

Randy
dodgerdudette
16 years ago
Hey Poodlepup, don't know where you are realtive to me (Napa County) but my RDV has 10 ft canes (or longer) and performs wonderfully.I think we all have individual views of what constitutes purple. I would describe her more on the magenta side, but less magenta than Rose de Rescht.I love her.

Kathy in Napa
poodlepup
Original Author
16 years ago
You live in Napa, and yours does well?
-I live in Petaluma. Close enough, I'll start up the truck.
gnabonnand
16 years ago
Kathy, does that mean poodlepup is coming to get yours? You'd better stand guard :-)

Randy
wichurana
16 years ago
Poodlepup,
You go girl! Any rose that lives, on your land, derives benefit from your labor and resources. If it does not meet your standards, then "adios".
Jeri mentioned 'Night Owl'. I am giving that one an audition in my garden. It supposedly repeats. Good Luck.

Ann
jerijen
16 years ago
Kathy-For-Whom-RdV-Is-Fuchsia . . .
Yes, it IS, in inland conditions.
I once had a bloom DQ'd at a rose show by a judge who lived inland. In my coastal climate, MOST of the time, it really was a soft muddle of shades of lavender.

Jeri Jennings

P.S: ANN IS RIGHT. If they don't please you, don't keep them. Roses are meant to make you happy.

Reine des Violettes

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