Bob,

1-Yup it happens
2- could be bad rings, unburnt fuel from a number of causes such as leaking float valve, cloged air filter causing a too rich mixture, electric fuel shut off valve if equiped stuck open and leaking when shut off.

How many hours on the engine now? Going to need to change oil and filter before the thinned oil does any (more)damage.

I have it at my friend's shop now - he has a hoist and we can work at a more comfortable height.

Thanks for the list of possible culprits.

Guess we will start to check them out from the cheapest and simplest on up.

Any other ideas most welcome.

Bob

While it's in for maintenance you might clean the fuel bowl, and needle and seat area, and add an inline fuel shutoff between the pump and carburetor in order to prevent this from recurring.

Adding the inline fuel shutoff valve, and then learning to shut the fuel off every time you stop the engine.........is the most important policy you can have to prevent this from recurring.
Install the shutoff valve between the fuel tank and the fuel filter.
Also, get into the habit of checking your oil at regular intervals. The intervals you should use are as follows:
(1) Always check the oil before each use. Not just a super quick "glance" either! LOOK at the oil. Does it appear thin? Is the level too high? Smell strongly of gasoline? Is it turning black (might want to plan for an oil change)?
(2) Check the oil every time you refill the fuel tank if you are doing enough work to require refueling before the day's work is done.
If you get into the habit of performing your oil checks to this schedule, no "oil related issues" will ever sneak up on you.

Hi mownie and others
I was reading the excellent troubleshooting and advice on an old post for a Kohler 22 HP and am really impressed with the help available here.

My shop buddy, who is way more talented than I am, was doing some more work on this unit yesterday. He discovered some problem with the choke linkage (which he fixed)- this had made it difficult to start the engine - looks like the cable may have been slipping.

He has checked and cleaned the plunger in the electric fuel shut off and he replaced the solenoid. Says it seems to be running like a champ now. We will re-assemble everything this morning and, when the dew burns off, I'll put the deck back on and give it an "under load test" - we finally got some rain this week and the grass and weeds are thriving.

A question for mownie - does the in-line manual shut off replace the electric fuel shut off valve or is it in addition.

Thanks again for the help of all the experts.
Bob

Well, I got the mower back and cut my lawn without a hitch. Hoped all was well.
My mechanic buddy said it was smoking a bit on start up but once it warms up it runs fine. He suggested we will try to make this last until the grass cutting season is over before we consider tearing the motor down further and see if we can stop the oil burning.

Now I am not sure if we can wait.

Another neighbour was helping me by cutting the grass while I had to travel to an eye specialist appointment in another city. I believe the mower ran well for him BUT, I went out this evening to finish a couple of spots and it was hard to start, it stalled out three or four times when I attempted to engage the mower, it was blowing blue-white smoke every time I re-started it and, at one point, blew a huge cloud of blue-white smoke.

I nursed it back to the barn on low idle and shut it down.

I tried to check out as much as my limited mechanical knowledge and experience would suggest and found the following:
- I believe I can see oil when I remove the air filter and look down into the carburetor.
- the oil level is high again.

I am hoping for some magic bullet here but I am trying to be realistic as well.

What else should I look for.

BTW - my friend is a very intuitive mechanical person but not familiar with the Kohler Courage Twin so I am do the web thing to try and compliment his mechanical intuition.

Always willing to learn from experience.

Thanks
Bob

Dourobob, Sorry I must have missed your question on the fuel solenoid last Friday.
***"does the in-line manual shut off replace the electric fuel shut off valve or is it in addition."***
No, the inline fuel valve is IN ADDITION to the fuel solenoid valve that is part of the carburetor, and for a very good reason (as demonstrated by your oil level problem).
The fuel solenoid valve is only there to prevent the loud "after-fire" bang (aka backfire) that happens as the engine stops turning upon shutting down the engine.
Contrary to what some people think, the fuel solenoid IS NOT intended to act as a "cutoff valve" to prevent gas from leaking through the carburetor when the engine is not operating. Nor is it possible for the fuel solenoid to prevent gas from leaking into the engine. The fuel solenoid only blocks the fuel from flowing through the MAIN JET of the carb (which is the major provider of fuel to the engine). The pilot jet (aka slow jet, idle jet, low speed jet) is still open and if the carburetor needle valve is leaking fuel into the carb bowl, the pilot jet will flow the gas right on into the engine.
Your carb is obviously fed by gravity (fuel tank mounted higher than carb) and the oil level is climbing because your carb is leaking gas into the engine.
The gas in the engine lube oiul is a least partially responsible for the smoke you see.
Right now, you need to install....wait a minute...I already said all that. Re-read my post about 3 up from here.
I presume your buddy must be one of those that thinks the fuel solenoid is going to keep gas from entering the engine.......sorry! That's not what it does.
Get y'self an inline fuel cutoff valve A.S.A.P. and use it like your engine's life depends on you doing so, it really does.
And change that contaminated oil before your engine tosses a rod.

Thanks so much mownie and BTW a belated Happy Birthday.

I think you are right that my buddy believed the solenoid kept gas from entering the engine.

Will install shut off and change the oil this weekend - looks like the forecast is for rain the next couple of up here so I do have some time to work on it.

Cheers and, as we used to say in my pre retirement bureaucratic days, "Full report to follow."

Bob

Hi again mownie

Just a clarification - my mower engine does have a fuel pump so I am not sure about the gravity feed unless that can happen in spite of the pump. The tank does appear to be above the pump.

Bob

Thanks Bob. It's hard to tell sometimes whether a fuel system is influenced by gravity some even if it has a fuel pump. Some tanks are configured such that the fuel level is higher than the carb when the tank is full, but lower than the carb when the tank is less than 1/2 full.
Still, fuel pump fed systems are not typically prone to the same leakage through the carb that plagues gravity fed systems.
The rising oil level is pointing at a source of fuel making its way to the crankcase.
The fuel pump itself might be the culprit, especially if it is the mechanical type that mounts to the side of the engine and is cam operated. But even the pulse/vacuum type have been know to leak gas into the vacuum plumbing and reach the crankcase.

Back again and still frustrated.

I changed the oil and filter and installed a fuel shut off. Best spot for access to the shut off was between the filter and the fuel pump - when I re-read mownie's earlier post I wondered if that was a mistake as he stated "Install the shutoff valve between the fuel tank and the fuel filter" - does this location make a difference?

Measured the oil precisely on the stick and proceeded to cut some grass. Although it did smoke quite a bit when I first started it, in a couple of minutes it all cleared and appeared to run quite well. Seemed to be lots of power.

After cutting for about 45 minutes I parked the mower in the barn, dropped the throttle back to low, let it idle for a minute then shut the key off.

A new symptom - it "ran on" for about 10 seconds after I turned the key off before shutting down AND there was more smoke coming out of the exhaust. It wasn't a lot of smoke but it was the first time I had seen that - maybe because I am watching more closely. I was also careful to make sure I turned the gas shut-off OFF)

After everything cooled down, I re-checked the oil level and it was up over the fill line about 1/2 inch. I drained out about 1/2 a quart of oil and let it sit overnight.

Check on the stick and the oil was where I left it yesterday - about 1/4 inch below the full line.

Today I took out the mower again and ran it for about 10 minutes. Fair bit of smoke on start-up. That disappeared as engine warmed up. Brought it back to the barn when the rain started, shut it off and shut off gas line, let mower sit for an hour while the rain came down, checked oil level and it is higher again - about 1/8 inch above full.

Not sure what do we need to look at next in order to get this machine back in action. Any ideas?

Thanks again for any help.
Bob

Ok so you have ruled out fuel going into the engine during the off period, gas must be getting into the engine via another route, as mownie pointed out maybe the fuel pump is dumping fuel into the crankcase while the engine is running, pull the fuel pump apart and check it out, I think you will find your problem here. Another thing is that the carb float could be stuck and dumping fuel into the engine while it is running, but I would highly doubt that as you said the engine is running good, and besides if enough fuel was entering the engine like this while running it would either flood right out, or be belching incredible amounts of black smoke. My vote is the fuel pump. Keep us posted.

Configuring the inline shutoff between the filter and the pump still serves to stem the flow of fuel and will not create any operational issues by being placed there instead of the preferred location (between tank and filter). Having the shutoff placed between the tank and filter allows one to shut off the fuel flow to facilitate changing of the fuel filter when doing maintenance.

It is so difficult to try and recreate the "crime scene" from a written account, but that is what we must do.
Trying to place all the reported events into an accurate and coherent timeline, and then picking out the significant details is a challenge.

So, Bob, when you shut off the key switch and the engine "ran on" and you "saw smoke"........what was the color of the smoke?

Regarding the continued fluctuations in the oil level, are you always parking the mower in the exact same spot when you check the oil level? and also allowing the same amount of time between stopping the engine and when you actually pull the dipstick for a reading?
Another question about "how you check" your oil level.
When you perform your initial oil level check (engine is cold and has not been run for a few hours) on the engine, do you simply "pull the stick and read what you see"??? OR....do you "pull the stick, wipe it clean, and then re-insert into the oil, and pull the stick out again for the actual reading"?
If you are simply pulling the stick and reading it right away...................you may be seeing a higher INDICATED oil level than the true level.
Some engines dipsticks seal tight enough to create a negative pressure in the dipstick tube when the engine cools down completely. If the lower end of the dipstick tube is below the oil level in the engine, the negative pressure will lift oil to a higher level in the tube, and show that on the stick.
Removing the stick breaks the "vacuum" in the tube, and the oil in the tube will drop to the same level as the rest of the oil in the sump. Re-sticking will show the true level.

Bob, try checking the oil level using the procedure above so we can rule out that your oil level fluctuations are the result of how you are checking the oil.

If you are shutting off the inline fuel valve while the engine is not running, there should be no way for gasoline to find its way to the crankcase and the lube oil.

OK guys, thank you so much for your insights but now I am mystified even more.

mownie - I agree it is so difficult to try and recreate the "crime scene" from a written account so, let me answer your questions in the sequence you asked them

1 - So, Bob, when you shut off the key switch and the engine "ran on" and you "saw smoke"........what was the color of the smoke?
SMOKE WAS WHITE(ISH)) AND THIS ONLY HAPPENED ONCE

2 - Regarding the continued fluctuations in the oil level, are you always parking the mower in the exact same spot when you check the oil level?
WITHIN THREE OR FOUR INCHES AND IT IS A FLAT FLOOR

3 - and also allowing the same amount of time between stopping the engine and when you actually pull the dipstick for a reading?
USUALLY PULL IT RIGHT AWAY, WIPE, RE-INSERT, TURN COUNTER-CLOCKWISE UNTIL IT CLICKS DOWN (just like it instructs in the manual) PULL OUT AND READ. LATELY HAVE BEEN CHECKING AGAIN AFTER AND HOUR OR SO AND BEFORE STARTING THE NEXT DAY

4 - Another question about "how you check" your oil level.
When you perform your initial oil level check (engine is cold and has not been run for a few hours) on the engine, do you simply "pull the stick and read what you see"??? OR....do you "pull the stick, wipe it clean, and then re-insert into the oil, and pull the stick out again for the actual reading"?
I PULL THE STICK, WIPE IT CLEAN, AND THEN RE-INSERT INTO THE OIL, AND PULL THE STICK OUT AGAIN FOR THE ACTUAL READING

Bob, try checking the oil level using the procedure above so we can rule out that your oil level fluctuations are the result of how you are checking the oil.
THINK I COVERED THAT ABOVE.

If you are shutting off the inline fuel valve while the engine is not running, there should be no way for gasoline to find its way to the crankcase and the lube oil.
AGREED!

jdenyer - I took off the fuel pump and took it to a local shop intending to buy a replacement. The fellow there said he sold his last two pumps earlier in the week and would not have any more until Monday or Tuesday. He also said he had never seen a "working" pump spill gas into the oil unless there was no shut off and the needle was sticking. He also said he believed it was a different problem, perhaps valve guides or rings, even after I explained what happened with the oil level AFTER I installed the Shut-Off.

NOW THE MYSTIFIED PART
Because I did not have time to go the extra hour to another shop for a fuel pump, I re-installed the original fuel pump, drained about half a cup of oil out so it showed on the dipstick about 1/4 of an inch below the full mark and started the mower. I got a cloud of white smoke for about 30 seconds and then the mower ran flawlessly for almost two hours caught up on a bunch of grass cutting, took it back to the same spot in the barn, shut off the gas, checked the oil immediately (using the procedure described above) and it was exactly at the same level it was when I started cutting.

I let the mower sit for a couple of hours and checked oil level again  just to be certain I wasnÂt dreaming - and again it was exactly at the same level it was when I started cutting.

I told my wife what happened and she said "maybe the fuel pump was lonely and it just wanted to go for a ride" Â while I appreciate her sense of humour, I am still scratching my head.

Hopefully I am back to being operational but I would really like to understand what might have happened here.

I am going to try using it again tomorrow if it doesn't rain to see if I can replicate today's apparent success.

Any insights??

Grateful for the collective wisdom shared here.
Bob

Bob, thanks for the answers. I am perplexed by the behavior of your Kohler.
With all the "usual suspects" now seeming to be not guilty, it makes me wonder if the fuel pump had been leaking, and somehow guit leaking (at least for now) after you removed it and put it back on again.

The only thing left unchecked or untouched is the possibilty that a head gasket is leaking fuel, along with compression and combustion gases, and finding its way into the crankcase through that breach.
Generally, gasoline, will not remain in the oil more than about 15 to 20 minutes after the engine oil reaches normal engine operating temperature because it is so volatile that it quickly boils off and leaves the oil through evaporation and venting.
It may be about time to perform a "cylinder leakdown test" to determine once and for all if your engine has a defective head gasket.
I don't know if you have the service manual. Click the link to get your free, downloadable copy in PDF.

Hi mownie
Thanks for the link - I did already have the manual and I checked the "leakdown test" write up.
The Kohler toll seems to be around $125 plus shipping from any of the web sources I found ... and shipping to Canada can get very pricey.

Came across a discussion on " making your own leakdown tester" for about $20 with the following description.
______________________________________
A store bought leak down tester will run $100+, but you can build your own for much cheaper.

First off, you need to get a pressure regulator. This one from Sears (part number 282-16025) is the same one that Snap-On uses on their leakdown tester. It even comes with the gauge on it already.

http://www.650motorcycles.com/LeakTester.jpg

Attach a male Quick Connect fitting to the inlet side of the regulator and a female quick connect fitting on the outlet side of the regulator.

Now all you need to do is make a small hose that adapts from a male quick connect to spark plug threads. A easy way to do this is to butcher up a old (or cheap) compression tester to use its line. Or you could have any store that makes hydraulic lines make you one.

If you do use a compression tester hose, you need to remove the check valve out of the fitting.

To use it, attach your air compressor to the inlet of the regulator and adjust the regulator until the gauge reads 100 PSI, this is your 0% leakage indicator.

Make sure the cylinder is at TDC of the compression stroke so all the valves are closed and attach the leakdown tester to the cylinder head.

All engines leak somewhat, so even on a healthy engine, the gauge will drop down to 90 PSI (10% leakage) or so. If it drops a large amount, then you have a leak (from chipped valves or a bad headgasket etc).

If it leaks significantly, you can feel the air coming out of the intake or exhaust manifold, indicating which set of valves is damaged. If the headgasket is leaking, you can sometimes feel it between the head and the block.

Anyways, have fun building a tool for $20 that is pretty much the same as the several hundred dollar Snap-On equivalent.

If no air is heard or felt out of the intake or exhaust remove the oil dipstick checking for air escaping there. That would be a sign of worn rings and or cylinder.

One other thing, Before the air is applied to the cylinder the flywheel MUST be pinned, If not the pressure will push the piston down the cylinder opening the valves. Do NOT put a large screw driver or pry bar into the flywheel blower fins expecting to hold it, The pressure is so great it will either snap it out of your hand or break the fins on the flywheel.

Also, use a large guage (2.5 - 4.0 inches) graduated in 2 psi increments. It is easy to read and more accurate.
_____________________________________________________

Once again I look for advice from those far more experienced - does this look like a reasonable alternative to the Kohler unit.

BTW - I cut grass for about three hours today and the oil level was exactly the same when I started and when I finished.
A little whitish smoke for about 30 seconds on start up and one puff of whitish smoke after cutting about ten short runs up and back on a fairly steep slope. Mower was always going forward up the slope and backing down.

I am optimistic (hopeful) I will get through the grass cutting season before I need to try tearing anything apart.

As always, your comments are welcomed.

Bob

Yes, that is a perfectly acceptable alternative to the Kohler "special tools" item.
In fact, the entire write-up sounds very much like my own "stock copy" for getting by without the bona fide Kohler item.

Mownie version:

A "cylinder leak down" test (or reasonable facsimile) using compressed air can be done to identify the route by which the compression is escaping. To do a "bona fide" leak down test requires a "percent of leakage gauge". A close approximation of the test can still be done if you have (1)Compressed air available, and (2) a threaded adapter fitting that will screw into the spark plug hole and also connect to an air hose, (3) a means of securely locking the crankshaft/flywheel in the "TDC of compression stroke" for the cylinder to be tested. Locking or holding the engine from turning when compressed air is applied to the cylinder is very important, both for personal safety, and, for accurate test results!! Actual testing is simple and amounts to "listening" to determine where the air is escaping when compressed air is applied to the cylinder through the spark plug hole adapter fitting. As follows: Turn the crankshaft/flywheel to position the piston of the testable cylinder to TDC of the compression stroke. Here's a hint, the valve train for both valves of that cylinder will place the valves in the closed position. You determine this by watching the tappets through the open valve compartment (if applicable) or by watching the valves with the valve cover removed. When both TAPPETS or lifters, are retracted toward the camshaft, and you can detect clearance between the end of valve and the tappet.....lock the flywheel in place so the crankshaft can't turn when air pressure is applied to the cylinder. Failure to securely lock the flywheel against moving could result in personal injury if the crankshaft rotates in reaction to the compressed air applied to the cylinder. In addition to the locking of flywheel, keep your hands away from the flywheel and crankshaft until air pressure is disconnected from cylinder. With the flywheel locked securely, thread the adapter fitting into the spark plug hole (be sure to have one of the spark plugs with you when you buy the adapter fitting) and tighten it so it can't leak air. Connect the air hose from a source of compressed air (60psi to 90 psi recommended). IF, there is a loss of compression, you will hear air leaking from somewhere. Carefully determine where the air is escaping by using a 2 foot length of hose or tubing. Place one end of the hose or tube close to an ear (but not inside your ear) and then move the other end of hose to the exit portal of the exhaust system. If air is heard loudly escaping here, the defect is in the exhaust valve or seat. Check the intake valve condition by moving the end of the hose to the throat of the carb (throttle must be held wide open, choke butterfly open, and any crankcase breather hose must be disconnected from the carb, (if carb is mounted to the intake manifold). If carb has been removed, place the hose into the intake manifold. If air is heard loudly here, the defect is in the intake valve or seat. If you do not detect air escaping from either of those places, check to see if you can hear air escaping from the crankcase breather hose (or pulse hose if impulse fuel pump is present). If you hear air escaping from the crankcase breather hose, or pulse hose, the defect is in the piston or cylinder wall. Always remove the compressed air supply from the cylinder before unlocking the flywheel. A leaking head gasket serious enough to cause loss of compression would be obvious without any test equipment, and you know it right away when the engine is running.

Hi mownie
Always happy to give credit where it is due and, you are right, this does sound very similar to your "stock copy".

I'll begin my quest for parts and see what I can come up with.

Cheers
Bob

dourbob, I hope your problems are fixed! I'm a bit perplexed myself, and was hoping that someone might answer my question: I have a toro LX500 with a kohler courage 22hp engine. It quit running one day and I can't get it started, I replaced the plugs and fuel filter, and find that fuel pump is working and fuel is getting to the carburetor, but not beyond. when I remove the plugs (after cranking without the leads attached, they are bone dry. I'm thinking that the fuel shut off solenoid is bad, but don't know for sure. Is there a way to test this? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Have someone switch the key from OFF to RUN while you hold your finger on the fuel solenoid. You should be able to feel and hear the faint click of the fuel solenoid when the key is turned ON and OFF.
You also need to spray a brief shot of spray carburetor cleaner into the throat of the carburetor and then try to start the engine. If the engine attempts to run (though it will only be for a second or 2) on the carb cleaner.....the problem is definitely "fuel related".
If you are unable to feel or hear the fuel solenoid operating, check to make sure that 12 volts are present on the hot wire at the fuel solenoid connector when the key is in the RUN position. If 12 volts is present, check the ground wire for the fuel solenoid (if it has a separate ground, some do not). If it has a separate ground wire, it usually grounds directly to the carb. This ground wire end terminal sometimes breaks off.
If the wiring appears intact and sound, but you can't feel or hear the fuel solenoid working, remove the solenoid from the carb and check to see if the plunger is stuck. Check it by pushing it in with a finger tip. The plunger should push in pretty easy and pop right back out when finger is removed. If the plunger is sticky at all in either direction, flush the plunger and the plunger hole out with spray carb cleaner. The plunger can be "bench tested" by connecting the wire connector ends across a 12 volt source, observing the correct polarity.
If the plunger does not draw into the solenoid body when the wires are connected to 12 volts after a thorough cleaning of the plunger, replace the fuel solenoid.

mownie,

I did the tests you suggested, when I touch my voltmeter to the hot wire with the ignition turned to on (wife in the seat), the meter reads all over the place not a steady voltage. Secondly when I removed the fuel cutoff solenoid, the plunger actually comes out of the solenoid completely. I put it back in and plugged the wire in to the hot wire, but felt nothing. could I have both a wiring problem and a bad solenoid, or was I testing the hot wire incorrectly (I stuck the positive node into the hot wire and touched the negative node to metal on the engine).

Thanks

OK, let me try to cover all points here.
Volt meter "all over the place". If you are using an enonomy grade, digital type meter, you can expect to see lots of "fluctuation" as the meter tries to stabilize. This is especially true if one must hold the conductor being tested with a finger. Analog meters (kind with a moving stylus or needle) are best in cases like this.

The plunger comes all the way out. This is OK, as long as you don't lose the spring or plunger.
When the plunger is willing to come out easily like this one, you will need to "help the plunger" to retract when 12 volts are applied to the hot wire. Help it by gently pushing the plunger toward the solenoid with a finger. When the plunger gets close enough for the solenoid to "grab it", it will be drawn inside the solenoid and stay there until the 12 volts is removed, then it will pop back out.............provided the solenoid is good.

From what you say about the positive and negative "nodes", you are using proper procedure. Test it again, this time give the plunger a "nudge". Your helper does not necessarily need to be in the seat (though it may be more comfortable than standing), the seat switch does not affect the current to the fuel solenoid.

mownie,

I must have lost the spring when the plunger fell out, oh well. I tried a couple more tests as you suggested by plugging in the solenoid, and pushing the plunger all the way into the solenoid, but I felt no grab or anything. I re-tested the hot wire with my multimeter (digital) and held it until I got a steady reading. It stabalized at 6, I thought this was low, so I hooked up a charger to the battery and re-tested, same result 6. It appears steady, so I'm wondering if it's supposed to be 12, how can this be? Either way, from the sound of it, I need a new solenoid. Any thoughts about the voltage?

Thanks again for all the help!!!

mownie,

by the way, I've been searching for a replacement for the solenoid or even the whole carburator, but can't seem to locate the correct ones for my model engine. It is a sv720s 22HP. If you know of any suppliers for these parts, that would be incredibly helpful.

Thanks again.
Steve

If you are reading the voltage at the hot wire while the solenoid is connected, you are going to see some voltage drop. To test whether the hot wire itself is sound, test the hot wire voltage with the solenoid disconnected from the wire.
You can also test the solenoid by connecting it to a 12 volt source such as the tractor battery itself. If the solenoid does not have a separate ground wire for the negative pole of the battery you will need to contact the body of the solenoid to the negative pole of battery (or to a known good ground surface elsewhere).

You can operate the engine with the plunger removed from the solenoid. The only function you will lose is "afterfire" (aka backfire) suppression that this solenoid is intended to prevent or minimize. The actual operation of the engine will not be affected, you just may hear a loud POP when the engine slows to 0 RPM when you cut the switch off.

If you will post the complete model number and serial number of your LX500, the MTD site might be able to narrow down exactly which engine you have. I found approx 5-6 proprietary suffix numbers just for Toro at the Kohler website. Kohler parts website for some reason fails to list the fuel solenoid for any of those.

Looking at some other websites (that offer Kohler parts) I find the fuel solenoid, but the prices ain't pretty ($104 plus) and there are a few choices, all refer back to the unique 4 digit suffix number that follows "SV720"

If you take the spring & plunger out of the solenoid and install it, it can't be blocking the fuel from traveling up the tube. Meaning, it doesn't need a new solenoid to run. If it doesn't run then- you must look further into the carb if it isn't presenting fuel to the cylinders. Set the parking brake and crank the engine while giving a shot of carb spray into the carb. If it tries to run, you likely have a fuel system issue. If not, you will need took elsewhere. Does it crank over well? BTW, don't crank these with the spark plug wires not grounded or hooked up.

Mownie and Tom,

thanks for all the advice, I will try to start without the plunger in the solenoid, makes sense, I never would have thought of it! I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks,
Steve

Mownie and Tom,

I tried your suggestion and still no joy, I guess my next move would be to dismantle the Carb and give it a good cleaning. I had taken the bowl off earlier and it looked factory clean, but I did not check the jet, I'm assuming that it may be clogged. I have strong flow to the carb from the fuel pump and fuel is getting into the bowl. Anything else I should check other than the main jet?

Thanks

mownie and Tom,

I took the carb apart and cleaned it up (it didn't really need it) and put it all back together. I left the air exchanger off so I could look into the carb while it was being turned over, it looked like there was fuel spurting up from the jet, but it still does not start. I'm at a loss, could there be a problem with the manifold? I had taken it off earlier, and there didn't seem to be anything obstructing the flow. Any other ideas?

Anyone,

I have now replaced spark plugs, fuel filter, fuel pump, blown out lines, checked fuel cutoff solenoid, cleaned carburator and manifold. I have free plowing gas into the carburator and strong spark at the plugs, and I still cannot get the engine running. I spray some ether into the air exchanger and it will start for a couple seconds then die. I realize it's probably a fuel flow problem, but when I took the carb apart to clean it, it looked like new. I left the air exchanger off once to look inside the carb while it was cranking over, and I saw fuel spurting up from the main valve. What am I missing? Could it just be bad gas, even though I was running off that tank before? Please help, I'd like to exhaust any possibilities before I have to replace the carb or worse!!!

Can you tell us what the choke plate is doing throughout all this cranking?
And I hope you are not actually spraying ether into this engine. Spray carburetor cleaner is a much more suitable starting fluid in this type of engine than ether.

Do you have the Kohler service manual for this engine?

Shusby: With all the work and replacement components go a few bucks further and do what I recommend numerous other do.
1st never use starting fluid via the carb venturi , if required only through the spark plug hole and only a short blast. Ether based starting fluids may dry and damage carb seals o-rings and gaskets and diaphrams within the carb. Use only carb cleaners for carburator starting spray use. Also drain out your old fuel by draining from the fuel line , do not tip over the mower to drain , you may drain crankcase oil into the breather housing and into the carb . Once drained add some carb cleaner & dry gas combination in case you have moisture within the fuel system. Let the new fuel and fuel treatment sit for about 30 minutes minimum. Then try the starting sequence via Carb cleaner sprayed within the carb venturi (throat) . Once started (may take a few tries) keep engine running until it will idle . This has been successful 90 % of the time . If not the carb jets will require removal and carb spray and compressed air may be needed to further remove dirt , debris within the carb circuits. Good Luck and let us know how you make out . I always try the KISS approach when gas starvation is indicated . Rather than throwing Time and $$$ at engine and component tear downs and Parts replacements that are not warranted.

You cleaned the intake manifold? Did you replace the mating seals or at least ensure they were still in place? The bowl on this thing has got to be sealed too. I've had one carb ever that looked good on one of these but not work. I assume that it will start and run indefinately with bursts of carb spray into the venturi? This we need to know.

Update: I got it running!!! After 3 weeks of trial and error and $100 in parts and scratching my head, as well as following the great advice of the guys who were giving much needed advice on this site (thank you Mownie and tom) it turns out I should have followed the KISS method and start from ground zero. I never thought to try different gas as I had just filled the tank with gas I had recently purchased and the tractor was running fine until it just abruptly stopped. Turns out that I had borrowed some gas to a neighbor kid to get his car down to the gas station. Well, this kid proceeded to take most of the gas from my full can and replaced it with water to make it look like he didn't use that much. Well I then proceeded to pour that mixture into my tank and abbra cadabbra, the tractor ran fine until the mixture got to the carb and the rest is history. Well, I drained the tank and blew out the lines, carb and manifold, put in the new gas and it fire on first crank!!! Lesson learned? Start with the basics first!!! Thanks again to all who helped with advice along the way!

Steve

And now you've learned the single most important lesson about diagnostics... ALWAYS start at square one and you will never forget it.

Shusby: Track down the Neibour Kid and Give Him a Big KISS -OFF lol . Good to here you back up and running ! You will remember this lesson . I know I always have . The Tough ones remain with You ! :)