It's quite possible that this rose will scorch in the sun, especially when it's young, and I would start it out in a shady but bright spot and then gradually move it to early morning sun and then a little more sun, and see how it behaves. It's possible that even a mature plant would not like the scorching hot sun you describe and that the flowers would frizzle and not look their best. I would slowly acclimate it to the sun while you have it in a pot and see how the blooms do before you make the decision to plant it.

Ingrid

P.S. I simply love your name "twinkletoad". Makes me smile every time I see it.

I agree with Ingrid. Keep it potted and move it gradually into that spot and see how it does. That will also give the rose time to get bigger before planting it. I don't like to plant small bands right into the ground. For me they do better by growing them up to a reasonable size first.

ingrid_vc - That sounds like sound advice. I have never potted a rose, so if you have any input on what type of soil/fertilizer to use, I would greatly appreciate it. I think I have a leftover bag of Miraclegro garden soil. Would watering with diluted fish emulsion be a good idea?

Thank you, I'm glad you like my name and SO glad to hear that it made you smile. I chose it on a whim- because it made me smile, too.

I kept WS2000 in a large pot for a couple of years. IMO it behaved better in the pot than in the ground. I used some organic potting soil, mulched with oak leaves, and fertilized irregularly.

Rosefolly

I planted WS 2000 shortly after I got him, (as soon as the bed was ready) and this is his third year. He is in full sun here in central Alabama and it hasn't seemed to bother him. He hasn't scorched for me. Here he is today:

Up close:

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And along the fence. Back in early February, I had to prune a couple of feet of cane on either end...you can see he is reaching over the duchess on the right (who has dropped a lot of petals) as it is.

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He is a wonderful rose. DH really likes the color. I like the fragrance and the big lovely blooms.

kay

Kay...I just love your close-up shot of W.S.2000. Mine should be good this year...I have waited patiently for him to look just like yours! Love your photos. Lesley

Hi Twinketoad: Since yours is own-root, it's best in partial shade. Daisy in Crete reported that her WS 2000 fried in the heat, and did better in partial shade.

My zone 5a sun is weaker ... I have an own-root WS 2000 which did great in 4 hours of morning sun ... until I was foolish to move him to full-sun, he got fried instantly by 80's degree. I moved him back to partial shade, and he did great.

If you have a GRAFTED on Dr. Huey, then it can take full-sun and less water better. My own-root Mirandy is a total wimp that fried in hot sun, but another person in CA with GRAFTED Mirandy reported it loved full-sun.

Well, I don't know anything about roses compared to you, but mine is own root, and it has done great in full sun. I do have acidic soil, if that makes any difference.

kay

kay--I don't mean to stick my nose in where it is not wanted, but are you sure the red rose in your photo is William Shakespare 2000? I know the computer monitors can really distort some colors, but the red I'm seeing in your picture is not even remotely like the Shakespearian red my plant puts out (my WS2000 is about 6 years old). Take a look at my WS2000--notice the pinkish/purplish/dark ruby shades it manifests. No clear bright red like the roses in your picture (gorgeous roses, by the way). See what you think.

WS2000
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Here's a second view, full on:
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What do you think? Very different color of "red"--don't you agree? (Allow for some differences in moniter colors, of course.)

How about some of the rest of you who grow WS2000--which "red" does yours lean the closest towards?

Kate

This is very interesting.

Kate and Kay- beautiful photos, thanks for sharing! They do look different on my screen, with Kay's being more of a true red. The leaves on Kate's photos look darker also. Both are lovely!

Why are the own root Austin roses not able to take the heat as well? Because they originated in a cooler climate? Is that a dumb question? :)

I have a mystery rose that is getting ready to bloom- I am wondering if it's Mirandy. I've never thought to look for a graft. Actually, I did not realize until this year that roses are sometimes grafted! All of the roses I have so far are own root except for a Pope John Paul II. I have a lot to learn.

The descriptions I've read describe WS2000 as being more of a magenta red, so I'm looking forward to hearing your comments on the color...

Hi dublinbay. Assume so since I bought it from Chamblees as WS 2000. I will say the original blooms seems less "in your face" red than it seems at this time. It has been a fabulous rose, a wonderful grower, blooms throughout the year, although admittedly spring and fall are the best displays. wonderful fragrance.

Here he is in a shot from last year, but he was quite red then too.

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Lovely rose.

kay

I have 2 WS 2000. One is behind a bamboo windbreak in afternoon sun and the other is in morning- midday sun. After our hot wind, the one that sat in the wind and in the midday sun frizzled up and the one that was protected didn't. I think the perfume and color is better in the morning sun spot however.

I don't grow him, but I have never seen a picture of him that was that bright red color.

Mine is red faced too sometimes, and don't ever remember it being the color of Kate's. Sometimes it is a very dark red. I'd wonder if temperature is affecting color, since our summers have been pretty cool the last two years, but Kay's central Alabama is pretty warm, I'd guess. My soil is an acidic gravel/clay and WS2000 is growing in a pretty shady spot.

Kate, do your leaves look different than Kay's and mine?

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This post was edited by harborrose on Sat, May 4, 13 at 1:25

I just checked HMF and some of the pics are bright red and some blue red and some in between. It's apparently quite variable in color. I had never happened to see pictures of him that bright color before. It's lovely.

Has anyone ordered theirs from Chamblee and had it produce the magenta red blooms?

I happened to see Christine's on her Organic Garden Dreams blog; hers is red in cooler weather and she mentions that it's from Chamblee's. Mine is from Chamblee's as well as Kay's, above.

Kate, if you're still reading this ... do you remember where yours is from? I saw those pics too, Florida, after reading this posting; quite a variation. :)

Mine is 5 years old, from RU, and it has never once shown that clear "modern" red. Typically it is purplish crimson to fuchsia red. It clashes badly even with roses like Barcelona and Chrysler Imperial that have a bit of blue in them.

A comment about pruning: I have finally got mine to stand up and stop sprawling. It makes low-arching basals about 5' long. After blooming, I cut them in half, pruning to an upward-facing bud. This year it is looking nice and bushy, and I don't expect to find flower clusters burying themselves in the heuchera leaves.

I don't remember for sure where I got mine, but if I had to guess, I'd say quite possibly from David Austin. I have occasionally ordered roses from Chamblees, but not very often, so (I'm guessing again) I dont' think it likely I ordered WS2000 from Chamblees.

Let me ask a question about the way the bush grows. Does it tend to extend, sometimes rather awkwardly, out to sides and the branches get weighed down with the weight of the blooms--to the point where you sometimes have to put a prop under the branch to keep it up? I remember a WS2000 owner from Pennsylvania and I having a discussion on this forum a couple years ago about that tendency in WS2000--both of us agreeing on that.

As for the leaves, I see no particular difference between my leaves and yours in the pictures above.

When you order your roses, do you make a special effort to note on the order that you do not want any substitutes if the nursery runs out of the rose you ordered? I ask because nurseries often have a policy of replacing missing roses with a similar rose of equal or better value--unless you, the buyer, tell them NOT to do that. Is it possible that Chamblees substituted another red Austin for the WS2000s they had run out of?

By the way, I think that policy is how some gardeners seem to often end up with the "wrong" rose in their order. The nursery was out and therefore substituted a similar rose of equal value--since there were no directions NOT to. I notice that a number of posters who got the "wrong" rose often proclaim the "mistake" too nice to demand a return on their order. Just my theory--but I always say "No substitutions--please!" on my orders--and I've never had a "wrong" rose sent to me.

Another reason I wonder if the roses are the same rose is that your blooms seem to be rounder and fuller; my WS2000's blooms tend to be rather flat on top--definitely not round (that almost "carnation" look in your pics?).

While we are at it, how tall do your WS2000s get--assuming you have a fairly mature one--let's say, 3 years old? Mine gets 3.5 to 4 ft tall--and tends to be wider than tall, as I mentioned above. But of course, height might vary in different regions.

Kate

Glad you chimed in, michael. I too discovered that with careful pruning, a lot of that notorious WS2000 "sprawl" could be eliminated. But to me, that naturally-occurring "sprawl" is one of the distinguishing traits of WS2000.

Kate

For the record, here is how David Austin describes the color and shape of WS2000 blooms: richest velvety crimson, gradually changing to an equally rich purple. They are deeply cupped at first, the flowers soon opening out to form shallow, quartered cups.

The link below calls up all of the David Austin reds currently on the market. I think your red Austin looks maybe more like Dark Lady. What do you think?

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: David Austin

I agree that the low-arching sprawl could be a diagnostic for IDing WS2000. And yes, the open blooms are shaped like hamburger buns.

Kate, this is so interesting; I'm glad you posted your pics. I love the color on yours.

Here are some pics taken today and the bottom one is from last summer. My bush sprawls on the right to fill in a spot and arch over that geranium. It is pruned on the left so it's growing upright, like you Michael and Kate have mentioned. I did it like that because I planted two dark red dahlias on that left side. (they'll probably clash terribly with WS-or whoever this is).

I've never grown DL, so, what do you think? Kay's pic above sure looks like a sprawler to me, but I'm not sure.

The last picture below shows its dark red color on a cane practically in the dirt.

You know, I don't think it's likely that Chamblee sent all of us the wrong rose. If it is DL then C just has their roses mixed up - but they also sell DL, so I'm inclined to think they know the difference.

Also, I don't necessarily believe what a grower says in his ads - Austin also describes WS2000 as "tidy, upright."

I'm inclined to think it's just a difference in how Chamblee's mother clone first was selected from the David Austin clone. But I'm just whistling through my hat, I don't know for sure.

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in the dirt, dark red

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Ten or fifteen years ago there was a big mixup between 'LD Braithwaite' and 'Fisherman's Friend' that involved more than one vendor.

It does make me wonder where Chamblee's got their rose. I found another picture that shows that arching with that red color, over that same geranium, above.

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I am really anxious to see this bud open now.

Mine is very much a sprawler. as I mentioned, I took a couple feet off of it on either side at the end of winter. this is the beginning of year three for my bush.

kay

Well, I'm sure I don't know what the answer is, but please don't doubt that I think your red rose bush -- by whatever name -- is still a gorgeous bloomer. It is just that a clear red is so "modern" and until recently, David Austin stayed with more traditional "old-fashioned" shades--dark pink/red turning purplish like the old time roses always did. That modern red on your bush is startling, to say the least, but mainly because I'm not used to seeing Austin's in bright modern reds--though I do have Lady of Shalott, and that golden-apricot shade is without a doubt modern also.

Anyway, here's to your gorgeous red, whatever its name is!

: )

Kate

I agree with Kate that W.S. 2000 is more of purplish to dark red, rather than bright red.

Someone posted a picture of BRIGHT RED poms-poms in HMF, very much like Kay's. She asked if it's W.S. 2000, and I said it looks more like L.D. Braithwaite rose.

My W.S. 2000 own-root from High Country Roses looks very much like Kate (Dublinbay). Below picture is how W.S. 2000 looks in my alkaline clay ... but when I put acid fertilizer on it, it becomes purplish DARK red.

Click on the link below for a picture of bright-red poms-poms that someone asked me if it's W.S. 2000.

Here is a link that might be useful: Picture of mistaken rose in HMF

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, May 5, 13 at 15:18

Here's another picture of my W.S. 2000, own-root, it's really tiny in 2nd year, only 1' x 1', like a mini-rose. It smells like violet-old-garden-rose, just like what David Austin catalog describes.

You can see its foliage better in this picture ... the petals are organized differently than poms-poms red L.D. Braithwaite.

I look at Twinkletoad's pic. in the pot again, the growth habit and foliage is different from my William Shakespeare. Due to winter-die back to the crown in my zone 5a, the new growth of W.S. 2000 is perfectly round, like a globe ... no side-way cane, no octopus cane whatsoever.

When I got W.S. 2000 as an own-root from High-Country Roses, I marveled at the perfect round shape of the bush, very much like the one in the pot in David Austin's catalog.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, May 5, 13 at 15:24

I doubt that the bright red rose in the early picture is WS2000 - the petal arrangements are too loose and open. WS2000 has a much tighter formal petal arrangement.

It also seems too red to be The Dark Lady (which has a similar flower shape). How big are the flowers? The Dark Lady has large to very large flowers.

Could it be Tess?

How tall does WS 2000 get to be when mature?

Assuming mine is now mature after 12 years, I would say 18 inches :-(

Thanks!

Nancy, I am being very cynical with that response: The plant has been a tragic Blackspot victim and so when I stopped spraying in 2009, the plant got smaller and smaller every year. I think it was one thin twig maybe 15" tall this year. I expect to find it dead next spring.

Anyone know where I can buy it?

@R L

As far as I can tell, its no longer in commerce.