Hi Megan

Do you know anybody who keeps those little gerbil thingies? A daughter of a lady at work keeps some kind of rodent like pet and they use wood shavings as bedding. Getting some of that might work for ya, or you could go to Walmart and buy some yourself. Some people will counsel against purchasing anything for your compost, I OTOH, would rather spend my money on compost stuff than chasing some stupid white spheroid around with a weighted stick (some people call that golfing). :)

Lloyd

Newspapers ought to work fine. There is no need to remove colored pages; they are all soy-based ink. You should take out the inserts with a hard, shiny surfacenlike magazine pages, but that shouldn't take long. You can also compost shredded office paper or most junk mail and cardboard and extra grocery bags. Usually carbons aren't nearly as hard to find as the nitrogens.

I have a shredder that I use for any junk mail or regular mail that I don't file. The shavings that Lloyd mentioned are really inexpensive in the big bales at places like K Mart and Wal Mart and will go a long way since they're compressed.

There is a difference between office paper and newspaper as a carbon source. Office paper breaks down more easily/quickly. I combine both for my main compost bin and use office paper for the kitchen compost bin.

If you're looking for quick compost, stick to office paper.

Hows about sawdust?
If you start asking around wood working shops and such I am sure they will have a trash can or two full of sawdust that you can have.(and of course make sure that they have not allowed pressure treated wood into the mix)
I see bags of leaves at the curbside as I drive around the suburbs of Washington DC (from spring clean up, me thinks).
I am sure if you drive around you'll find all sorts of free compostables (green and brown).
I think that the point to composting is to reduce waste (and improve the soil) and there is sooooooo much stuff out there for free.
I have said it so many times before, pick up the phone and call a local tree service company and ask them to dump their waste wood chips in your yard or driveway. Over the last ten years I have composted about 2000 dump truck loads of yard waste (some at home but most at a private school) and in a large active pile EVERYTHING decomposes fast (wood chips become humus in a year and food waste is gone in two weeks)
save your cash and help reduce the waste stream by searching out a free source.
IALBTC

Free is always better. If you just ask neighbors for their yard waste, it takes no time to collect if it's right next door. Also, you and/or your husband might be able to get shredded paper at work. Due to privacy issues and security most places of business have a paper shredder. And cardboard is another. Most any company buys some supplies, and those come in cardboard boxes. Folded flat, they take up almost no space. And if your children go to school or a daycare center, those are other good sources for paper and cardboard.

I too live in suburbia, so I understand that you have to do things differently than folks in the country. I have no place to store a mountain of wood from a tree company. But when I have run out of my hoarded leaves in the past I have bought a bale of straw. In reality it takes up no more space than the bale of pet bedding you could buy or the garbage can you are using to make compost.

Karen

If you live anywhere close to Seattle, the "stuff for free" is pretty limited :-)) There are not bags of leaves or grass clippings left around, one is required to recycle yard waste here unless they compost themselves. The Puget Sound area is the queen of the recycling universe and the location of the very first large scale commercial composting operation based entirely on yard waste. Everything is recycled here and there are entire businesses that are based on buying or selling recycled material of all varieties. What you CAN get is wood chips. When you see that Asplund truck in the neighborhood, ask them to dump a load or call and request it. It may be more than you need for your compost, but they work well for other purposes, like general mulching or for pathways through the garden area or in dog runs. Or share with your neighbors, who might appreciate some of the bounty.

I'd probably go with waste paper as a primary source of free carbon material. With the volume of junk mail and newspapers that accumulate on a daily basis, an investment in a paper shredder will produce more than enough browns for most suburban composts.

How about purchasing a bag of pine bark mulch, the fine type. It should go a long way and is not very expensive at all. Sure, it isn't free, but for less than three bucks, it makes sense.

A bale of straw - perfect carbon! Tho the price per bale isn't too "perfect" any more. :( Note: straw, not hay. Shredded cardboard is another.

Dave

Thanks everyone for their wonderful suggestions. Yes, Seattle is pretty green. At my husband's work, they compost all their scrap food, paper, and utensils at the cafeteria and they gave everyone free reusable water bottles, which I think is pretty impressive.

I still want to make sure that I understand about using paper for compost. This compost will be used for my vegetable garden. So it seems that newspapers, including color pages, are ok, as long as they aren't shiny. Is the ink in my printer soy based? All junk mail? I've spent hours trying to get off mailing lists, but I STILL get some junk mail, so sending it to the shredder and compost pile would be very satisfying. :-)

I send all my junk mail to the shredder (and then to the compost).

I don't worry too much about the ink for a number of reasons.

First, look at a printed page that has ink all over it. How much ink is really on that page? Unless you're dealing with pictures, the page is really mostly white.

I know for ink jets, a really small bottle of refill ink will cover tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of pages. And it's mostly water, so how much of what ends up on the paper could be heavy metals?

With lasers, it's hard to tell how much toner a cartridge has, but it can't be much. I know that in the old days, you could tell if something was printed by a laser printer because if you ran your finger over the paper, you could feel the toner as bumps on the paper. I just checked several laser printed pages and can't detect the bumps that I used to find.

So the amount of toner is minuscule in relation to the amount of paper (which, in itself, is just a portion of the compost).

I really don't see how it could be a problem.

I need a little bit more evidence than that I'm afraid. There is only one place where I've heard that newspaper only uses soy inks and that's here on Garden Web. Over and over. For years. I'd like to just once read something about it from an authoritative source. Anyone have one?

I do use newspaper on my vegetable garden and I am starting to use more and more junk mail in my compost, but I'd like to feel more comfortable about it.

This came up from googling---not that I understand it.

Ligand-dependent activation of the aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR) pathway leads to a diverse array of biological and toxicological effects. The best-studied ligands for the AhR include polycyclic and halogenated aromatic hydrocarbons, the most potent of which is 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD). However, as new AhR ligands are identified and characterized, their structural and physiochemical diversity continues to expand. Our identification of AhR agonists in crude extracts from diverse materials raises questions as to the magnitude and extent of human exposure to AhR ligands through normal daily activities. We have found that solvent extracts of newspapers from countries around the world stimulate the AhR signaling pathway. AhR agonist activity was observed for dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO), ethanol, and water extracts of printed newspaper, unprinted virgin paper, and black printing ink, where activation of luciferase reporter gene expression was transient, suggesting that the AhR active chemical(s) was metabolically labile. DMSO and ethanol extracts also stimulated AhR transformation and DNA binding, and also competed with [3H]TCDD for binding to the AhR. In addition, DMSO extracts of printed newspaper induced cytochrome P450 1A associated 7-ethoxyresorufin-O-deethylase activity in zebrafish embryos in vivo. Although the responsible bioactive chemical(s) remain to be identified, our results demonstrate that newspapers and printing ink contain relatively potent metabolically labile agonists of the AhR. Given the large amount of recycling and reprocessing of newspapers throughout the world, release of these easily extractable AhR agonists into the environment should be examined and their potential effects on aquatic organisms assessed.

All the compost material you have are kitchen scraps and ideal for worm composting. The only added material needed is your newspaper which you also have. If you want to know what ink is used call your newspaper and ask. Worm castings are the richest compost possible and very little space is needed for their compost bins. Al

The editor of our local paper, Jerry Smith of the Peoria Journal Star told me in person over the phone that our paper uses soy based ink. I didn't ask him to put it in writing, nor did I ask for a certification of authenticity or anything, I just took his word for it.

I emailed the Seattle Times and they promptly, within hours, emailed me back and said that color ink is soy based and the black ink is petroleum based. I would have thought the other way around, but either way, petroleum based ink does not sound like a good thing to put into my garden.

So pine bark mulch or gerbil bedding might be my next approach. Do you think it's possible that treated wood would be in either of these? At what sort of store do you buy a bale of straw? Does straw get sprayed with pesticides? Would there be any problems with vermin if I stored it in my garage?

My hubby thinks this forum should be called The Dirt Board ;-)

I think it's possible that the bedding has treated wood, but I think it's unlikely, since that might be hazardous to the animals.

Hi Megan

Q) At what sort of store do you buy a bale of straw?
A) Usually from a farm but a horse stable or race track might sell you one as well.

Q) Does straw get sprayed with pesticides?
A) I spray my wheat with a herbicide as a seedling in early June. Some farmers also spray with a glyphosate (Roundup) just prior to harvest.

Q) Would there be any problems with vermin if I stored it in my garage?
A) Mice love my wheat straw as there are often lots (from a mouses point of view) of un-thrashed grain kernels left behind. Storing the straw in a barrel or garbage can will foil them for the most part.

I'd offer you a couple of bales, heck I'd even shred em for you. No chance of you taking a trip up to Manitoba in the near future is there? I've never used the shavings but I've seen them after they have been in the cage for a week, they don't look treated to me.

Lloyd

Here is a link that might be useful: Wood shaving

There are many garden writers in books and newpapers who have given assurances that newpapers use ink that bio-degrades and is safe to use in for composting and gardening.

I have to really question that info from the Seattle Times. What that paper has told the public in the past via their own garden writers is that it only uses soy-based ink.

Many newspapers state in their publishing information(usually found with the subscription information and telephone numbers on page 2) that they use soy ink. I have checked a number of papers and always found that statement and have never seen it qualified to say only for colors.

I have also been assured by people in the printing business that it simply isn't practical for a newpaper to use solvents instead of water to clean their presses these days. It's similar to the difference between latex or acrylic paint and the old oil-based enamel. Who uses that anymore?

I think it is pointless to nitpick every little item you put in your compost and it boggles my mind to think of buying something in order to compost it. Being green to me means comsuming less, first and formost. Buying green is an oxymoron. If you are truly being green, you aren't buying anything. What is the point of wasting resources in order to produce compost which may be a minute bit more pure? Does that significantly affect the soil? The vegetables? The person who comsumes them? I doubt it.

I'd have to agree with the previous poster - I think you are attempting to over-analyze the situation and finding problems where none exist. Soy-based printing inks have been widely used since the late 80's, primarily because they are cheaper and easier to use. I'd have to question the accuracy of the Times response to your query as well. Despite the manner of carrying, inks do contain chemicals - that's what gives them their color. Some of these chemicals are heavy metals but not all heavy metals are necessarily toxic and the amount used and the residual effect on the printed paper is minimal - less than .01% of the total composition. Combine that with the totally degradable effect of the composting process and you are worrying about nothing.

Use your waste paper - newspapers, junk mail whathaveyou. It is an excellent way to recycle and your compost and garden will appreciate it.

I just searched the boston.com website and found this note in the archives. There is a small fee to access the archives ($2.95 I think). Access is free for Globe subscribers.

"ASK THE GLOBE
Date: May 23, 2000 Page: D6 Section: National/Foreign

Q. I subscribe to The Boston Globe and The New York Times. I am concerned about any toxicity that might be found in the ink dye. My hands are always black from the ink.
P.S., Portsmouth, N.H.

A. Both newspapers use soybean-based color ink and mineral oil-based black ink. Both are non-toxic and environmentally safe, and have been selected because they substantially reduce rub-off. The selection of inks is based on price and considerations of quality in production of the papers. The soy-based color ink allows better reproduction of color, and the mineral oil-based black ink is much less expensive than other black inks."

Claire

You will find that there is no definitive "standard" for newspapers. Trade websites have said as much. While many or most papers have switched to soy-based inks, many haven't due to the types of presses they use.

Megan, I'd believe what the newspaper told you rather than what others would rather believe.

Wayne

If one was to micro-analyze everything in every component that goes into the compost process, then no one would ever compost. That's why we get get all the "Eeeck! bugs (mold, bacteria, fungus, mushrooms, toadstools, grubs, worms, stuff) in my compost pile!" posts - a simple failure to understand the process and how it works.

But then if one was to micro-analyze everything that was in the air you'd quit breathing. And in the soil? You think it is pristine? You'd never eat anything grown in it not to mention anything grown by a commercial grower and bought at a store.

If one insists on focusing on the miniscule/possible/might/maybes in compost pile additives they will find little or nothing to compost. Most importantly, they are not giving any credit to the composting process itself and its profound ability to neutralize elements added to it. Nor are they recognizing the natural filtering abilities of plants grown in the garden for consumption.

The choices are really quite simple - control your growing environment to a reasonable degree, compost or don't compost, feed the plants compost or use synthetic chemicals, and eat the results. Or.....don't compost, don't garden, and don't eat anything.

We aren't born rational, it has to be learned. ;)

Dave

I agree. Ignorance is bliss.

Actually, I'm being sarcastic, I think analysis and science have gotten us very far the last 50 years.

For me, there's a huge difference between toadstools, mushrooms, grubs, worms, and cadmium.

Back to the non-newspaper options--

I have tiny critters (a hamster and a hedgehog) so I shop for this stuff every once in a while :3 Pine shavings would be your cheapest bet, followed by aspen and cedar shavings. Depending on how much you need, I would seek out farm and feed stores, as they would sell you greater amounts at cheaper prices (or so I have been told by friends who run small-time rescue operations and change 20+ large cages on a weekly basis). Go to a pet store, like PetSmart or Petco and you'll be paying around $10-$15 (if I recall correctly) for a 2 cubic foot bag (which is ridiculous if you're going to be throwing it into a compost pile!) Being a critter owner, I would encourage you to get your kids a guinea pig, hamster, or gerbil so that everyone benefits from this deal. The kids learn responsibility and are entertained, and you get both wood shavings and microbes to add to your pile. My little hamster is tiny, but he diligently does his part to contribute what he can to the composting cycle.

And about processing that pet shavings go through-- as far as I know, the only processing the wood chips might go through would be kiln-drying to reduce the phenols that harm the little animals.

I hope this helps a little bit :3

Regarding the recycling of waste paper/newspapers/junk mail in compost, there was a very interesting and informative discussion on this on the Vermicomposting forum several years ago. Recycling of waste paper is considered a major component of worm bedding in vermiculture. Quite a lot of data is presented on what types of papers and inks can be used without concern as well as the results of testing of some worm composts to determine levels of any heavy metals. I would think much of this data is transferable to a traditional composting process as compost microbes are equally efficient in consuming, digesting and breaking down waste paper as are worms.

FWIW, the National Association of Newspapers reports that 95% of US dailies that have runs in excess of 15,000 copies use only soy-based inks. One would have to wonder why a newspaper with as large a circulation as the Seattle Times is as far out of whack with the industry as being part of the lonely remaining 5% that uses a petroleum base for black ink. And btw, cadmium is no longer commonly used to create pigments for colored printing but in those applications where it is, it tests out below detectable measureable levels at 4ppm. Your basic garden soil generally tests higher than that for cadmium.

We can all make our own choices based on our beliefs but it makes sense to pick our battles and the recycling of waste paper into compost doesn't seem to me to be a very significant one.

Here is a link that might be useful: waste papers and worm composting

And btw, cadmium is no longer commonly used to create pigments for colored printing but in those applications where it is, it tests out below detectable measureable levels at 4ppm. Your basic garden soil generally tests higher than that for cadmium.

An excellent example of my point above. Also found in the typical soil analysis is vanadium, lead, arsenic, copper, chromium, and zinc.

If you are going to compost, then you must adopt some level of trust in the process. Otherwise, it is pointless. And if you are going to garden for food, the same applies.

If you choose to not use newspapers, or straw that may have been sprayed, or bedding that may have had treated wood in it in your personal compost pile, fine. But let common sense play a role in your decision making process too.

Dave

I don't agree that we can ignore the consequences of inclusion of foreign produced paper in our paper recycling stream. Annpat's post is citing cytogenic/mutagenic byproducts from paper manufacture from overseas suppliers.

The good news is that composting is one of the ways to break down the DMSO and other toxic compounds. What composting can't do is break down Cadmium, Lead and other toxic metals.

I'm going to surf over to the vermicomposting web site to see how the discussion went.