Large b&B oaks brittle branches?

13 years ago

I planted some large oaks last April. 3-4" caliper 15-22' tall 4 nuttall, 4 overcup, 2 pin oaks and 2 red blaze maples. 9 of them are full sun, 3 in partial shade. 3-5" of mulch used. No or limited mulch touching trunks.

A 5 gallon bucket with small holes drilled for slow water release places at the base. I filled the bucket at least three times a week and watered around the area 1-3 gallons. During the winter I did skip waterings a few times but we had good rain fall. Trees held up great over the summer.

Now the small branches are brittle and break off with a snap. :(. I used a knife and check a branch near the trunk and it's nice and green. My maples are in good shape and are leafing out nicely. No buds on the oaks.

What did I do wrong?

Whats the short term and long term effect, if any?

Thanks for the help,, I got a deal on these trees but have a lot of time and money invested in them.

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Comments (10)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
13 years ago
Impossible to tell with info provided.

Pix help.

Dan
haroldandcher17222_yahoo_com
13 years ago
Assuming they haven't leafed out yet, you shouldn't panic just yet. There may be some dead branches but that doesn't mean the whole tree is dead. Sometimes branches break if there ice.

Unfortunately 1-3 gallons is not very much water. When watering a new transplant that size I would suggest at least 20 gallons trickling out. There are these watering bags you can get to make the job easier. It could be that they didn't get enough water. Tough to diagnose with the info given or without seeing the trees.
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well.. to put it in perspective... it wouldnt lose a branch up high.. from rot at ground level.. it would have a greater tendency to fall over from the bottom .. eh??? get a pro out there.. or in my world.. dont waste that money .... oak isnt supposed to be spongy .. EVER ... its one of the hardest woods there is ... just find some Billy Ray.. and i will yell this part.. WITH INSURANCE ... AND GET RID OF IT ... if you bought your new house.. and the kitchen floor were spongey.. would you be hoping the floor fairy would come and tell you dont worry about it??? or would you renovate the kitchen??? oak is a great firewood.. and the chips.. if you garden ... are free ... ken
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just wait ... oak are one of the last to leaf out ... though we have no clue where you are .... and if they are dead.. or nearly .... fertilizer isnt going to do anything ... even perhaps kill them if they are borderline... this bothers me: Appeared that they wanted to leaf but stopped. in my z5.. that is usually associated with frost or freeze issues ... and then.. if they live.. you have to wait for new buds to be stimulated ... and yes.. frost/freeze can hit only some plants.. and not others .... e.g. in the bottom of a swale where cold gathered... etc ... can you ID any pattern as to which were effected??? those were some giant transplants.. i hope it all works out ken
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If they planted this tree so deep, did they plant the other two red oaks the same depth? If so, seems like you should expose the root flare on those other two, also. Since Your tree was first planted large as you discribed, than it most likely was a field grown, B & B. Many times I have seem such trees with, even in the wrapped up root ball stage, covered at least 2 to 3 inches of dirt higher than the rootflare. And sometimes with a lot of feeder roots tangled together in that excessively high dirt. If those who planted your tree just dropped the root ball into the planting hole and only pushed the burlap down below grade level, I mean without first finding the root flare of that tree, it is not to difficult of a stretch to begin wondering if they also failed to remove the wire basket, or other such thing that is often used when growers dig up and B & B their field grown trees. Also if on this struggling tree the planters did not expose the rootflare and then plant it properly, it is very likely that they did not investigate to see if and correct if possible or cull out any of these three trees that might have had circling roots. Most times, field grown trees do not have as much problems encoutering circling roots, but that still does not ensure all those three trees at one point or other in their training time handling has not been exposed to conditions which could have presented circling roots problems. So, yes file a complant with your contractor and insist that he properly replace the trees or that he returns your money and removes the tree. Then find a quality nursery who will provide and properly plant a good tree for you. You might also consider including in your complaint the other two trees they planted, if you can clearly see that they planted them the exact same way this struggling tree was planted.
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Thanks all for the comments. I actually attempted to listen to Ken (and get the smallest tree size they had). A few years back (2012) Ken had warned me about avoiding instant gratification yet I went ahead and bought the 4" tree and had it "professionally installed". two years later I have about 1 inch of growth and a tree that is finally looking healthy, hopefully on its way to recovery. I would have been way better off going with a smaller one. I actually did learn my lesson and searched long and hard for this very specific tree, the problem is that there are only very few nurseries that carry them since they were recently made available to the public. After countless hours of searching on the web for mail order options and calling several nurseries I found one that actually offered this tree (They had to order from out of state and shipped to my home during their Spring delivery). They offered it in many sizes and I had requested the absolute smallest one they had which unfortunately was still fairly large at 1.75 inches. (I like the smaller sizes for the reasons that were noted but also because they are a heck of a lot easier to move around and plant!) I would have much preferred a smaller one, but it was either that size tree or no tree and I pulled the trigger site unseen and ended up with this unfortunate situation. I think the lesson is to always make sure you have an opportunity to inspect the trees carefully before buying and be aware that underneath several inches of soil you could have a mess of a root system. As far as grafting, it is my understanding that since disease "resistant" elms are cloned (in the case of the Jefferson Elm, it's an exact copy of the tree located in the Washington Mall in DC (link: below) While I have read that it is best to grow them on their "own root", I believe they are often grafted to non DED resistant American Elm rootstock since it is cheaper/easier. It is possible I have misinterpreted what I've read on the Internet. Here is a link that might be useful: Jefferson Elm Tree Info
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j0nd03
13 years ago
It's only March 2 and your maple is already leafing out? You need to give it at least another month more like a month and a half before you give them the death sentence. The small branches (esp near the bottom) may been dead when you planted and didn't notice because the tree was full and leafed out.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
well ... i never lived in GA.. but arent you a little early ...

up here.. oak are one of the last to leaf out ... and all you can exercise is patience ....

you have scratched once.. good enough ... no matter how many times you want to check .... i would hesitate to keep doing it repeatedly ....

leaf out is a function of soil temps.. at root depth .. not air temps... so even if it has been warmish for you .... if you bury your head 3 or 4 feet into the ground [and dont forget your mulch is keeping the soil cool longer] .. you will find.. most likely.. little or no soil warming to trigger root growth.. which will trigger leaf out ... i think the plant needs to start pumping water up into the tree ... to start plumping the buds to expand and break .... i dont know if that is science.. or just my way of thinking about it all ...

i am not impressed with small branches being dead ... perhaps they were sacrificed due to the transplanting of incredibly large specimens ....

regardless .. what will be.. will be .. and all you have ... right now .. is time to wait to see what the result is ...

it is also not uncommon up here in z5 .. for last years transplants to delay leaf out even longer .... simply based on the transplant .... i dont see why that would be different for you ... maybe dan knows ....

good luck

ken

PS: shade will increase the amount of time it takes .. for the soil to warm ... so expect those trees to be behind the curve ...

pps: my bigger worry.. up here in the great frozen north.. more than initial bud break.. would be a heavy frost or freeze after the leaves appear .... if there was loss of the first set of leaves.. on a tree with basically no roots [comparatively speaking] .. there just might not be the reserve of stored energy to releaf ... and then you will have problems .... but right now .... your only problem .. is PROBABLY .. your anxiety ...
ryker-lakes
Original Author
13 years ago
3 x 5gallon session in a slow release bucket plus and additional 1-2gallons per session watered around the mulch. That's 15-21 gallons per weeks plus normal rainfall.

Thanks for the help. Ive spent alot of time and effort in planting 12 large trees at once. Nervous about keeping them healthy.
j0nd03
13 years ago
Forgot to mention areas that were pruned and have buds/stems occurring an inch or two below the cut, will often die back to the nearest bud. If that is what you are talking about that is so common it is practically mandatory. I snap the dead growth off after leaf drop of the first year though it could be removed anytime.
jqpublic
13 years ago
Red maples are blooming here as well so I wouldn't discount his/her observation, but with any newly planted tree (especially those of such a great size) a delay in sprouting is expected. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the twigs die back. I would re-examine the situation in June perhaps and see where you are.

Pictures would help.
j0nd03
13 years ago
My red maples are blooming here in AR too but that is altogether different than leafing out already ;)
haroldandcher17222_yahoo_com
13 years ago
If your summers are on the dry side, I would suggest more like 20 gallons three times per week.
Of course the best way to judge how much and how frequently to water is to stick your finger(s) inside the soil ball as far as you can go and determine if its wet or dry. Down where you are, I would err on the side of watering more rather than less with the trees that you have mentioned.
rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
13 years ago
Your trees aren't even properly established yet. It can take a tree that size a couple of years to be considered truly established. During that time, the tree is not going to expend much energy on supporting the branch tips, stress tolerance, insect/disease invasion, etc., but on establishment of the root system.

I am not at all surprised that these trees are giving up some of the tree body. As ken stated, the branches are sacrificed in order that roots may be made.

However, since we don't have any other pertinent information relating to soils, planting depth, use (or non-use) of amendments, it's really impossible for us to give much of a prognosis.

Large b&B oaks brittle branches?

Comments (10)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

haroldandcher17222_yahoo_com

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Large b&B oaks brittle branches?

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