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What's the verdict about pressure treated lumber and roses?

15 years ago

I always thought that the chemicals would leach into the soil and kill the roses, so I have never used it. I was watching Ashdown's videos,and he was training a rose around a pressure treated 4X4...

Does anyone use it and what has been your experience?? Thanks, Donna

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Comments (6)

anntn6b
15 years ago
I wonder if modern treated lumber is worth the price.
DH who loved lincoln logs as a kid overuses the treated landscape timber to make rose beds. At about four years, the treated wood is rotting from the less treated inside outward. Even parts that aren't in contact with the ground, or even in contact with moisture.

I doubt there's enough preservative in any of what's sold now to affect anything...I know Poke weed, poison ivy and Virginia Creeper grow really well right up against the treated wood.
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wirosarian_z4b_WI
15 years ago
The main problem that I've always heard about using treated lumber in the garden is the uptake of the chemicals into the plant so you should not use it around "edible" plants (fruits, veggies, & herbs) but around ornamentals plants, such as roses, its OK. I've had it by ornamental plants for years & seen no apparent impact. Also NEVER burn treated wood.
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Pressure treated lumber has traditionally used arsenic, I don't believe that product can be offered for sale at this date. If you've made a recent purchase, you may have bought a different product than the one that has been being removed from playgrounds, picnic/eating areas etc...but I'd want to check into pressure treated with 'what', before sawing into it or having it in my garden. "This transition affects virtually all residential uses of wood treated with chromated copper arsenate, also known as CCA, including wood used in play-structures, decks, picnic tables, landscaping timbers, residential fencing, patios and walkways/boardwalks. By Jan. 2004, EPA will not allow CCA products for any of these residential uses." Here is a link that might be useful: epa consumer safety
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Tom: I have no idea if you are right, or wromg, only that according to our local home center, the treated lumber that has been sold for several years now has no arsenic in it. But I use oil based semi-transparent stain on all treated timbers, so it's really not an issue with me and the new ones seem to stain the same as the old ones did. We have given up on cedar. It's too soft, rots faster and costs too much. A few coats of stain, and you can't tell the difference looking at it anyway. I've also never had a problem with plants in treated timber raised beds, as we always lined them with aluminum flashing to prevent soil from escaping. It may also have prevented leaching. Or, it could have been the sealer. I can't really say. But now with the copper, I had to find something else and finally settled on the extra heavy black plastic used for lining ponds. Actually, the best timbers on our place are the RR ties that surround the barn and line the paths to the pastures. Talk about forever! Some have lain out there for over 40 years and are still sound, but it takes two strong men and a gorilla to handle them.
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Yes, HD lumber is usually really low quality. For PT, the tag on the end of the board tells about the treatment process. The good PT has 0.40 PCF (pounds per cubic foot) of chemical treatment. This is good for ground contact or weather exposure. The chemical itself is ACQ, copper naphthenate, or other. I don't think the actual chemical is as important as the level of treatment. The stuff at HD has less chemical treatment, about half as much, if I remember correctly from the label. If you have a whole project to do, I recommend ordering a unit of #1 select structural from a local lumberyard. They can get it treated from their supplier. I just recently got some Doug Fir #1 structural grade lumber pressure treated. It was about 15-25% higher price, but the quality of the wood is WAY better. Most PT lumber is structural grade for the 4x and up, but the 2x is #2. Because the treatment process weakens and derates the lumber's load capacity, building can become a challenge if the boards are already all split and cracked. Stair stringers are the worst if you use 2x12 #2 PT. They tend to crack down the middle and all the steps you just carefully cut fall off. It is hard to get 2x12 #1 PT for only a few pieces in order to complete some stairs because of the special order thing. But if you order all the 2x material (stringers, joists, and decking) #1 PT, the supplier is happy to fill your order quickly.
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You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between PT #1 select structural and regular PT #2. Lumber has an ink stamp from the sawmill indicating the grade, species, sawmill, etc. Usually the presure treating process covers up the original stamp. The little dashes or color of the chemical treatment do not have anything to do with structural grade. Lowes and Home Depot do not sell any #1 structural grade lumber, with the possible exception of 4x6 and larger timbers. You need to look at the stamp to know for sure. The PT at lowes and HD are definitely not structural grade. If I need #1 select structural PT lumber, I special order it. The sawmill grades the wood #1 and then sends it for chemical treatment. The large PT beams are often already #1, but in order to get PT 2x material in #1, it basically has to be special order. Don't waste your time even asking the people at Lowes or HD any of these questions. They are probably the ones who told you about looking at the little dashes.
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roseman
15 years ago
In the past, I have edged and built beds from RR ties. They are treated with creosote. None of that ever leached into the rose beds and caused any problems. When I moved to my present home, I created the beds from pressure treated lumber. I have lived here for over thirteen years and never had any problems with the pressure treated lumber affecting my roses in any way. On the basis of this, I would say the verdict is that it's OK to use it.
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
15 years ago
The arsenic in pressure-treated lumber has been banned and they now use copper compounds of some sort, I think. Copper has fungicidal qualities, so perhaps it might help slightly instead of hurting?
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donnaz5
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for all of the replies...I guess it won't kill the roses!! this opens up many new possibilities for me now..I have about 40 4x4 pressure treated posts that i didn't know what i was going to do with..i can make pillars and arches, and on and on...yippee !! thanks...donna
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jim_w_ny
15 years ago
donna

Do you live near me? I could use about 8 of your 4x4's. I need to rebuild my arbor/pergola.

I live in the Hudson Valley, town of Chatham.
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