I have lug (AG) tires on all three of my garden tractors and they definetly improve traction in all situations. I did read on another forum where someone was having "rear tire" clearance issues with the new Craftsman Professionals. Specifically the two lower end ones. I have the 27HP Craftsman Professional and I had no problem installing the AG tires.

"My question is, do lug tires help with slope traction?"

I think they would.

"and wonder if they may actually decrease traction on sloped dry grass."

My experience is no.

I went through the same traction issues with my tractor a couple years ago. I've got some pretty steep slopes that I would always spin out on, especially if the grass was even the slightest bit damp. After suggestions that I got here, I filled my rear tires with windshield washer fluid and it made all the difference in the world. I think each tire held(23") 6-7 gallons and I believe that added about 7 lbs per gallon. I rarely spin out now. Some of the best $15 I've ever spent.

You might want to check out the HDAP tires from Carlise. They ride better and I think they have better all round traction than the AG's. slkpk

What are HDAP's?? Probably "heavy duty" something I guess. Could I get them on my GT5000 23" rear without havin gto readjust the mower deck?

jimtnc: The thread link below has a discussion with pictures of the HDAP tires. I frankly do not know what HDAP stands for but the tires they are talking about come on some of the larger JD garden tractors and are Carlisle HD Field Trax tires. Also if you go to the Carlisle Tire web site and look at ATV tires, you'll see other options to consider for more traction. Measure your tire height and check the column noted "Mounted Height" to make sure they will fit your tractor.

Here is a link that might be useful: HDAP vs. turf tires

Okay, thanks john. I've got 23"x10.5x12" on there now, but didn't know if I could squeeze these guys on there without rubbing somewhere.

Found out what HDAP stands for: Heavy-duty all purpose, if anyone cares. :-).

Thanks a lot jimtnc! Now we know......I googled it and came up with nothing that made any sense.

Try fluid in the rear tires first. It makes all the difference. It is cheap also.

Thanks all. Been travelling so sorry for slow response. Will work on getting the new tires then. Will make sure I check for the clearance as I have the middle Pro series tractor.

About filling with liquid. How exactly do you get the liquid in there?

Also, as I perpetually have flats despite sealants and such, any harm to yard if anti-freeze leaks?

Here's how I added washer fluid(not anti-freeze):
- remove tire from tractor
- remove valve stem core to let air out
- break tire bead from rim...there are lots of ways to do this, but here's what I did...we have stairs going from the garage to the basement. I took the tire and set it upright on one of the steps and against the wall. Then I used my car tire jack and laid it on its side on the same step with the base against the other wall. To span from the jack to the tire I used a 2x4. Then just started jacking the 2x4 into the sidewall of the tire near the rim until the tire bead broke.
- lay tire on its side and start filling with washer fluid...you'll probably need something to keep the tire separated from the rim to make pouring easier...a screwdriver works but be careful not to scratch the rim. I filled my tire as much as I could to try to minimize the sloshing of the fluid when your driving
- put the valve stem core back in
- re-seat tire bead...with the tire still on its side, I used a nylon ratchet strap and placed it around the outer edge of the tire(placing it in the center did not work for me) and tightened it as much as I could. Then I used to an air compressor on the valve stem to inflate the tire and that should seat the tire bead(at least it did for me). And you need to use a 'real' air compressor, not the little 12V kind. Those don't shoot the air quick enough to seat the bead.

Like I said, there are probably better methods for doing this but it did work for me. It was the first time I've ever done it and I'm far from a mechanically savvy person.

ikenlob - you said you have trouble with your tires springing leaks... if nothing else, look at using potable RV type antifreeze. It won't poison pets/kids, much safer if it leaks.

ikenlob: I have a '06 YS4500 with a 24 HP B/S V-Twin, Hydro Tranny, 20 x 10 Tires, etc... that is very similar to your Pro. I had traction problems as well in certain sloped areas of my yard. I installed the Craftsman wheel weights with the quick release cam type levers prior to the start of this season. They allow you to quickly (about 1 minute) remove the weights in order to add air or do maintenance that requires tire removal. Your rims should already have pre-drilled holes in them for the bolts.

They made a huge difference - I don't have any of the traction issues I used to have. My tires would spin and create bald patches in several areas. I have about 12 hours of tractor time so far this season and highly recommend them.

You can get the part number (plus a bunch of other important part numbers) by looking under the hood of the tractor towards the right hand side. Just make sure they have the quick release cam type lever. I think I paid about $ 60.00 for the set - short money for a great fix.

A note of warning: the Craftswman Professional series tractors 28870 and 28872 (those with 42 and 46 inch decks) have a serious clearance problem with their decks (as well as the traction problem, as stated above)

It is not possible to put on Lug or AG tires on these tractors (the clearance with the TurfSavers is a 1/4 inch or less). Nor would it be possible to put on chains, imho.

These are GREAT tractors, a hugh bang for the buck... but if you have traction problems... the solution cannot involve switching tires or adding chains. I think that Sears needs to do a rethink on the deck placement...

... I do not know enough about the pros and cons of wheel weights or fluid-filling to comment. I would like more advice on these options....

chunger22: I agree - with my deck in the highest position (#6) I have only about one inch of clearance between the tire and deck on the right hand side (sitting on the seat). Fortunately the deck does not move fore & aft so there are no issues.

There would be serious clearance issues if one were to replace the turf tires with heavy lug type tires. Raising the deck to the #6 position would be impossible - at least with my '06 YS4500. I'm not sure about the Pro series tractors

As I said in my previous post - the wheel weights made a HUGE difference for me. It's definately solved my traction issues.

IMO $ 60.00 or so is an inexpensive and simple fix to this type of traction problem. The weights can always be returned to Sears if they don't work. It's worth a shot!

Thanks again all. Will definately get the weights as soon as possible and look into the liquid if more is needed. To be honest, haven't looked at the tractor yet for clearance concerns on different tires. Glad I asked and couldn't get right on it. If it hadn't been for baseball I would have ran right out and ordered new tires without considering clearance. You guys are lifesavers.

The fancy tires you guys mentioned do not seem to be available in my size anyway so it appears to be lugs or nothing. Probably nothing by the sound of it. Depending on what is necessary, I can probably make up a little room. Wouldn't be the first time I did a little work on a deck. Buddy that got a matching unit is an engineer as well. We'll figure something out. Hopefully, weights will do the trick.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking my tires are 20 x 10 x 8. If clearance is an issue, what about something in the 19 x 10 x 7??? ;)

Again, due to baseball, I'm really only into minimum maintenance mode until the end of June. (Thank goodness boy goes into school league next year. No more practices!!!) Spent my one available afternoon this week putting in one of my two seasonal weedwhacking sessions. This one was particularly interesting as I had an encounter with what appears to be a Northern Copperhead. Luckily it was at least as afraid of the weed whacker as I was of it. May have been a milk snake. At least that is what I keep telling myself. Kept it's head in the grass and we did a little dance for a few minutes. I finally figured accurate identification wasn't worth a week in the hospital and moved on.

Hi all,

Save your money on those wheel weights ...

I happen to have some slippery slopes on my lawn along with a several hundred feet of those nice old stone walls which used to separate properties.

I also happen to ride a Montesa Trials motorcycle ... For those of you not familiar with this type of riding - a very typical trick to getting great traction on these motorcycles is to run a significantly low tire pressures on these bikes. I run about 5 lbs in the front and 3-4 lbs in the rear tire (the rear tire being a radial).

AND so naturally - I have experimented with low tire pressures on both of my riding mowers and it works great. ( i run tubes in both rear tires... (and fronts too).

I can tell you that it works great as i use my old sears "slave tractor " for pulling boat trailers and motorcycle trailers around my property. And yes - it pulls up the wet slopes...

Tire pressure on the tractor ? I dont know - but I use a hand operated tire pump - and i use my foot to step on the tire to check the pressure. I want the tire to be soft enough to push in with my foot - but not too soft that I see a huge difference in the tires when I sit on the tractor... (Note - I do expect to see them squat a bit when my 195 lbs is in the seat).

It is the soft tire that allows it to conform to your lawn to get more footprint on the turf (and another major benefit is a rather comfortable ride as well).

It works sooo well - - - that my little Sears (no deck on it) will easily climb over the fallen rock wall at the back of my property.

If your not sure about what im telling you - just go out and let a little bit of air our of your tires ... and watch your traction and comfort level increase. You may wish to use an air gage to find your sweet spot...

if you got any time - have a look at this trials video and you can see the effects of what a nice soft tire will do for you ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrsbXPNYOqM&feature=related

Now if I could only get my Scotts with the 46 inch deck to climb the rock wall with the blades spinning I could start a new sport "Trails Tractors"...

Oh yeah - one other thing - my tire are tired old dry rotted turf savers ...

and remember - have fun and always wear a helmet on your trails tractor...

peace be with you ...

njdpo: I used to do the same thing with my 4 x 4 when I needed more traction in certain situations. However, I think the cutting height and quality of cut may be compromised a bit by deflating the tires.

IMO, the traction issue can be better solved by the addition of added weight where the traction issue originates. I had the same type of traction problems that the original poster discussed and the addition of wheel weights resolved my problems (similar to ikenlob's).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your idea is not viable. I believe the quality of cut may suffer with the tire pressure being that low. I would think that significant deck adjustments would be needed to compensate for the decrease in the height of the deck (fore and aft) as a result of the low rear tire pressure.

Deck height adjustment and quality of cut are usually based on proper tire inflation - at least according to the manual.

Just my 2 cents. Peace to you as well!

Hmmm... thats interesting regarding the deck height and softer tires - something that had not occurred to me...

The deck height adjustment on my Scotts is rather clunky and something I dont pay close attention to... I basically drop the deck down and start mowing ... although the softer tires probably have made some difference - I am not able to tell...

With the deck floating on those little wheels - im under the impression that the deck can not get ... any lower ... and with the maximum cutting heights - I have not had any complaints.

However - with that being said - I would certainly agree that my deck at max height (which is rather high) would be about ... hmmm... 3/4 inch lower +or- than it would be with full tires...

thanks for that feedback - Ill take it into consideration while im mowing again...

but still - A bad day of mowing a lawn - is still better than a good day at work ... (unless of course this is your line of work)...

Have a good day ...

njdpo said: " also happen to ride a Montesa Trials motorcycle."

Talk about a name from the past! Hmm, I wonder if Bultaco still makes trials bikes, and if they're even in existence today....how about those chrome-tanked Hodakas!

Interesting, from L&G tractors to Sherpa Ts, Wombats, Combat Wombats, Super Rats, and Road Toads.

Observed Trials... real men go slow!

UPDATE: I got the wheel weights and they worked out great. Totally different experience given my terrain. Few more areas to try, but main areas where much better.

As for clearance on lugs, the deck angles to the back on the right (as you sit) side. The clearance on the diameter of the tire is about 1/2" with deck retracted and slightly less on the face of the tire due to the way the scalping wheel is mounted onto the deck. The tire actually rests in a right angle between the deck and the mounting bracket for the scalp wheel. This is the type of thing engineers do when they build from plans instead of mowing their grass...

So true diameter of any replacement tire would be a real concern. The deck has a 3/4" lip that could be removed if I were serious about the situation. That would theoretically give an additional 1/2" for lug tread. I've done similar before with careful reinforcement otherwise. Scalping wheel would have to be moved if the tire was ANY deeper at all. That would be a little more difficult with my welding skills.

Lucky for me, the weights are doing better than I expected.

Thanks guys.

keeferb,

Well I just used your step-by-step process of filling tires with one execption: my method of breaking the top bead included two very carefully aimed swats with a sledgehamer--much easier logistically speaking.

Just last year I tore the sidewall on one of my 23x10.50-12 turf savers. I wanted to replace both of the rears (even though the other was like new) with some HDAP (aka: HD Field Trax), but alas, they're not available in that size. I wasn't confident that the 24" would provide enough clearance, so I just replaced it with a like tire.

But after slipping around for the rest of the season on my turf tires (and getting stuck while tilling), I decided to go all out and fix the traction problem once and for all. It would be nice to have a good all-around tire, but since I already had two like new (and expensive) turf tires, I decided to pick up a set of old rims on eBay and mount some serious traction tires. I found a set of rims off an old JD 200 series, which fit the GT225's bolt pattern but had about another inch of offset. They were a little rusty but straight. Then I found a pair of 4-ply Carlisle Tru Power lug tires (just a little heavier than the Super Lug) for $207 after shipping.
I worked my way through college mounting tires, but after wrestling with a pair of crowbars for about 5 minutes, I figured I'd just run down to the local service station and pay them the $10 a tire fee to mount them (tires this size or bigger will fit on a standard automotive changer). I tried to get them to fill the tires for me but they were afraid of making a big mess, so declined. When I got home I removed the valve cores, gave them a whack with the sledge, jammed a paintbrush handle into the bead to keep it away from the rim and poured 5 gallons of cheap washer fluid into each tire (about 40 lbs per wheel). I probably could have squeezed 6 gallons into each wheel. I inflated the tires with the core out to seat the bead; then put the core in and reset the pressure. I did a little leaf bagging and was amazed at the difference in traction. The tires didn't tear up my lawn at all. All things considered (used rims, can of JD yellow, two tires, mounting, 10 gallons w/w fluid), it cost me well under $300 to turn my deere into a traction monster.

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are those 8" front wheels? if so they make AG's in that size too :)

Well at the speeds I generally cut, I'm pretty sure AGs on the front WOULD tear up my lawn. I was thinking about filling the turf tires, however.
Any idea how much fluid a 16x6.5-8 will hold?

On a lawn i know AGs aren't needed, just looks better :)
I doubt if fluid in front would make a difference much, the engine is already over the front tires.

I was surprised on my snow tractor how good of turning traction i had in snow with turf tires on the front, due to engine and plow weight i assume.

And i rode dirt bikes and atv's all my life, i mud pitted ATV's at one time, and yes, every bit of air out of a tire until the sidewall just starts to bulge will have a good effect on traction, with little on mow height, but you need to air down with your butt in the seat.
My dirt bikes and Atv's only had enough air to hold the bike up.Using rim screws.
And those HDAP tires have been out forever, they started that design way back when for off road trucks, tires like 33 to 44 inch high, they were called BuckShot Mudders.
Then they adapted to atv's, still calling them Buckshots.
Now they seem to be a general purpose.I have owned them, and honestly, they fall far short of Ags.
Ags and Gators have such big, far spaced lugs, they will walk right over sticks, roots, etc. try that uphill with a tire that has a close spaced lug like HDAPS, they sit and spin.
I have owned so many "best off road traction" claimed tires over the years it boggles the mind. Right now, there are 2. AGS's and Gators, Gators are for 4 wheelers, but some sizes work on LT/GT's others are good, don't get me wrong, but absolute best (IMHO) are AGS and gators.
Now if you are mowing a flat lawn, anything works.......
There is a huge difference in say, what i do with my GT, and what a rural neghibor hood guy does with his LT on a flat lawn, and ! every conceivable in between there is.
FYI a Kenda Viper is a great tire, lugs about 1" high, not sure what sizes they come in. Also Spider Trac's

Here is a link that might be useful: link to Gator tire picture

I've never owned a four-wheeler, but I've ridden dirtbikes and mountain bikes, and owned a 79 CJ-5 and a 97 Wrangler. With the Jeeps and dirt bikes, low pressure was the way to go. With the mountain bike, you need to keep the tire pressure high or you'll pinch the tube against the rim and end up with a flat tire. I think it was in this thread where someone warned about low pressure with slippery w/w fluid causing the rim to spin inside the bead, so I kept the rears at 20 psi. The fronts, however, are just high enough to keep them on the rim, around 5psi. I had a wheelbarrow tire slip off the bead once. What a pain to reseat that bead! Eventually put a tube in it. Of course it was full of sand at the time of the flat!

So with this new found traction I decided to put it to the test at my buddy's property. I thought for sure by the end of the morning I'd be towing my Deere out of the mud with my GMC, but that never happened. Suddenly my little 15hp tractor thinks it's a big tractor. I use a 44M deck to maintain my lawn, and had put the original 42C deck on in the fall for bagging leaves, so I wasn't really worried about banging it up. I hit a few stumps, made a little noise, but no dents/cracks or otherwise. Check it out:

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In the background you can sort of see where I ventured down into the lowlands. It wasn't slipping, but I didn't want to push it too much.
I could have gotten a lot more done, but I promised the wife I'd be home by lunch time.

Regarding the fit of the carlisle super-lug on the craftsman professional series tractor. I have the 24 hp, 42 inch deck. I ordered the tires before I read this post and was ready to send them back on receipt. I looked at the way the deck was mounted to see if I could drill into the mounting brackets to add more clearance. I decided if necessary I would drill new holes in the mounting brackets and keep the tires. Now, without any drilling required, I have my superlugs mounted on the tractor. Clearance is in-deed tight, but only a hair tighter than with the turf tires. On the carlisle page, you will see that the super lugs are only 1/2 inch bigger in diameter than the turf tires, and only have an impact of 1/4 inch on deck clearance. Tires installed, the professional climbs inclines like a goat, no weight added. I hope this helps others with similar questions