One of the most common causes for your symptoms is that the valves need adjusting. I think if you check your owner's manual, you will see they recommend doing this once a year.

You could jump directly from a known good battery to the starter terminal. IF the starter still doesn't turn the engine, valves are very likely.

I have detailed instructions for adjusting the valves IF you want them.

Walt Conner
wconner5 at verizon dot net (put in proper format)

Walt,

Please forward those along. Still seems odd that it would go from running fine, to nothing with a slight valve change. Also, I put a volt meter on the starter side of the selenoid, with the key turned, I had less then a volt. I am guessing this might be something I should also change. The battery side read 12.25V+, by the way. Again, thanks for all the advice, please forward me the valve adjust instructions.

my email is omteixeira at earthlink dot net (you know what to do)

"and now I here a noise (like a high pitched hmmmm)"

IF it sounds like the starter motor is "spinning up", but not engaging, then the Bendix drive probably needs to be cleaned.
If it sounds like it's "straining hard, but nor spinning the motor, then refer to the above posts.

When cranking, you want minimal voltage at the point you checked. A high reading means the switch inside the solenoid is bad and can't carry the current, or the starter motor isn't drawing current.

Bill,

I am confused. How do you want minimal voltage? If you only have one volt you are not going to spin an electric starter nearly enough to turn over any compression motor. We are talking about the wire that goes from the solenoid to the wire on the bottom of the starter (+). I would think it needs to be at least 5V+ on that post, if not 12V+. I need a wiring schematic for this mower, anyone have that?

Also, it is not the starter spinning (although that was the first place I looked also), it sounds like an electric wire frying actually, so after I replace the solenoid I am going to have to check all the wires before I hook it back up.

Orlando

How do you want minimal voltage?"
Because you are measuring voltage drop. If you have 12V at that point, it means the circuit isn't drawing any current.

That doesn't sound like the problem though.

Remove the spark plug(s) and see if it will crank.
If you get the same result, the starter motor is toast. If it cranks, check the valve adjustment if an OHV engine.
Engine Model & Type is useful to know.

OK, thanks. It is an OHV engine, and the starter works off the motor (I tested it, and the other one I replaced). So now I just need to pull the plug, and if it cranks, wait for the document from Walt.

Orlando

The way it works is, I posted my address.

Walt Conner

OK,

So this morning afforded me some more testing time. With plug in or out, through the solenoid, I got nothing. I bypassed the solenoid, with the plug in, very little engine movement. So I go to pull the plug, and way to much gas came out of the chamber. After that, she cranks all day. So I need a solenoid, and I need to adjust the valves, and find out how SO MUCH gas got into the cylinder.

Orlando

Carb needle/seat is leaking, filling the cylinder with fuel.
This hydro locks the engine since the fuel doesn't compress.
Fix the carb problem first.
Also change the oil since it's now contaminated with gasoline.

Engine Model & Type is useful to know. STILL!

Bill,

Sorry, I thought the description was enough. So here you are:
B&S Model: 287777
Type: 0256-01

So now it's the carb, and solenoid...this is starting to become and interesting list. I am glad you are helping me find things, since I want to keep this engine running for a long time. It is a great little old mower.

Orlando

So if I understand you correctly-
With the spark plug out, the engine won't turn over UNLESS you bypass the solenoid?
It just seems a bit weird that the solenoid failed at the same time the engine got hydro locked.
I guess the dead short current could have "fried" the contact in the solenoid, but...
I assume you have cleaned/tightened the connections to/from the battery, solenoid & starter? A dead short can also "fry" a "marginal" connection.
Just don't want to see you spend money on a new solenoid if the old one is OK.

You can download an IPL at the Briggs site (see link) and that'll have an exploded view of the carb that you may find helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link

Well, I had a corroded terminal when I replaced the battery, so we have no cables, and a new battery. They are all tight, checked that yesterday. I really think the solenoid is an issue, as with it in the loop, nothing works. My thought it the engine was locked by the gas, and the solenoid fried in the process of me trying to start it.

"My thought it the engine was locked by the gas, and the solenoid fried in the process of me trying to start it."

Could be but the starter is a more likely prospect to go first.

Walt Conner

Walt, I would have thought that too, but he says it cranks when bypassing the solenoid.

We haven't even got into the valve adjust issue yet!:-)

Orlando-
Have you reinstalled the plug (since the cylinder is drained) and tried cranking it by bypassing the solenoid?
The engine should crank now, IF the starter motor is good. It'll probably even start if the key is on.

Bill, might tell him how to test the solenoid, I give up.

Walt Conner

Well,

I did not put the plug back in, but it won't start, unless I re-install the gas tank. :-) Had removed it to make sure all the wires at the solenoid were tight and not corroded or frayed. I appreciate all your help, and looked at the document Bill pointed me too. I have the carb to the left (the Walbro). I guess my best bet would be to order a rebuild kit since if one thing went it probably needs a rebuild. Any stores you guy recommend over others online?

Orlando

Sometimes it's just cheaper to buy local when you add the S&H. They certainly aren't shy about the price!

You'll also need the date CODE for your engine, since that determines which kit.
Code is on the engine next to model & type. YYMMDDzz.

Chances are, you could just remove the bowl, float & needle and just let the fuel line flush things out for a few seconds.
Often this problem occurs when changing a fuel filter. A piece of crud gets broken loose and immediately flushed down into the carb when the fuel flows.

Wow,

OK, so the air filter, and pre air filter were completely soaked with gas as well, so I will be changing those as well as the oil change. I pulled the bowl off the carb, and there were flakes of "stuff" in there. I used parts cleaner and got it all out of the bowl, and needle area. My only concern is the bottom of the bowl has a little brown area, my guess is rust forming. The could very well be where the "stuff" came from. I guess I will just order a new bowl on Monday along with the solenoid.

Orlando

I wouldn't get a new bowl, unless it's nearly rusted through.
The "rust area" was a spot where water had accumulated. As long as the tank is cleaned out/fuel used up, your water will be gone.
IF your gasoline has alcohol added, that will also absorb water. The bad news is that it keeps absorbing water, so for longer storage times, water keeps accumulating.
You might change your winter storage procedure though.
I like to fill my tanks to the brim with stabilized fuel. No air space = no condensation.

Have you tried seeing if the engine will turn over with the spark plug reinstalled? Curious minds.....

Bill,

I reinstalled the carb, air cleaner housing, and plug and wire. Then I made sure everything was tight and put back together right. I then went to turn it over, and got nothing. I put a jumper clamp from the battery side of the solenoid to the starter wire side, and it turned over all day (I still need to put fuel back in). So, looks like that is the last thing I need to change. Before I do I am going to make sure it is not the switch under the seat stoping it, I know it has just cheap plastic clips.

Orlando

Jump 12v to the small terminal on the solenoid.
If it cranks the problem isn't the solenoid. If it doesn't crank, the solenoid is bad.

Bill,

Which small terminal? I have two large, and then two small. One large is the battery, the other is the starter. The small, one is a white wire, the other is a black wire. There is also a small red wire that connects to the battery side (so constant power to that) and has a in line fuse.

Orlando

One of the small ones is from the crank circuit from the starter switch. When there is a 2nd small terminal, it will be a ground for the internal coil of the solenoid. (elecro magnet)
It's often used by one of the safety switches, in that the S Switch must complete the ground for the solenoid to work.
IF you have a voltmeter or 12V test light, you could just check each wire and see which one has 12V when the key is in the crank position. (If you have 12V, that pretty much proves the solenoid is bad too, unless the ground isn't completing.

In this case, jumper both terminals, one + and the other -.
This will bypass ALL safety switches etc. (make sure it's not in gear/ blade engaged etc. etc.)
You won't damage the winding if you do it "backwards", since the resistance of the winding is the same no matter what direction.
I'm pretty sure that you DO have a bad solenoid. I'd just like to verify that so you don't spend money needlessly. I'm frugal!

Just to add-
When you said "older" tractor, I'd assumed you only had one small terminal on the solenoid. On those, the solenoid case is the ground.

About what year is your tractor? If it has the original engine, the CODE on the engine is the DOM. YYMMDDzz. One can assume the engine will be "slightly" older than the tractor.

Bill,

No problem, it is an 96 motor, and by old I meant older then 10 years. The date codes the engine as October 14th 1996, so it is a 97 mower is my best guess.

Orlando

Pretty sure I found the electrical schematic.
The WHITE wire should be the 12V from the switch to crank. It appears the black wire simply goes to ground. I guess they just used the 4 terminal solenoids on all?

I picked up a solenoid, all filters (air, fuel, oil), and oil, should know something after work when I put it back together tonight.

Orlando

Wow,

Great news, new solenoid, and boom, she cranks over. So I changed the oil, air filters, and fuel filter, put the tank back in, button it up and she started right up. Thanks so much. You two were a wealth of knowledge and probably saved me from blowing the motor by not changing the oil.

Orlando

Glad to hear the GOOD news!
Even a blind squirrel.....:-)

I'd check the oil level after it's sat for a few hours, and then again before the next use to make sure the carb isn't still leaking through. It shouldn't be higher! The "smell test" is also effective.

Bill,

Good news, the oil is still oil, and full (not overfull). I did a test cut and ran it for 30 minutes, all seems good.

Orlando

If the carb was still leaking, you probably wouldn't see it while you were running, because it's going through the engine.
It's when it sits, that it fills the cylinder and eventually runs into the sump.
Check again in a few days of non use to be sure.

Im working on a Scotts 2046 with similar problems...

I have a 20 HP B&S Intek engine - and would be interested in seeing the detailed instructions on adjusting the valves ... if it applies to my motor...

Thanks

Ok, here is a follow up. I ran it 4 times for short periods with no issues. Today I go to really mow. I ran through the first tank of gas, and shut the mower down as it puttered from lack of fuel. I fill up the tank, and crank and crank, nothing...but fuel I smell. So I fouled it, I pull the plug and out comes fuel, not as bad as when it was locked up, but more then I though flooding would cause. So I drained the tank again, to make sure it wouldn't all spill out, and then I check the oil, and it's still just oil (thank God). Is it normal for it to spew out fuel when it is flooded (It seemed odd to me), or do I need to rebuild this carb?

Orlando

PS: I guess I need to put some fuel back in with no plug and let it sit, and see where it goes??

Sounds like you still have some crud in the rank/fuel lines that's getting washed down to the carb as it runs out of gas?

I think the reason you didn't have a lot of gas in the cylinder is because it didn't sit for very long.

Well, I let it sit for two hours, and sure enough, everything was full of fuel. Had to dump the oil, spin off the bowl on the carb. Went out and got the new oil filter and oil, but I am worried I am just going to have this happen again. The more I think about it both times it happened I ran the thing out of gas. I will never do that again! :-) Anyway, I wonder how the crud could get from the tank to the carb with a brand new fuel filter on there, but you just have to be right, because it is obvious that something (float?) stuck open on the carb again.

Orlando

When you fix the carb (again), remove the fuel line to the carb and flush it for a few seconds.
What often happens, is that when you change the filter, you'll break off some crud that was stuck to the fuel line, or even "chunks" of the fuel line itself if it's old and brittle.
Maybe time for some new fuel line, or even an inline shut off valve?

I am going all new fuel line, already saw some nice line at the local mower place, they cut to length. Is there any good cleaner for the tank, or if not I will just run parts cleaner through it, to get any extra crap out of it. I am thinking of buying a whole new carb for $95, instead of the kit for 25 to rebuild it. Just seems more reasonable, since I value my time, and then I will have a spare to play with.

Orlando

I wouldn't even buy the kit. You should be able to fix it in place.
How hard is it to remove the tank so that you can "swish" the fuel around and dump it out the filler?

The LIGHT IS at the end of the tunnel!!!!

The tank is 6 bolts, and I have had it out, should have cleaned it then! LOL, the solenoid is right below it! :-) Listen, considering I bought this Poulan for $300, and it's lasted 2 seasons with regular maintenance before all of this, I am way ahead of the game, and I see that light!

Orlando