And just to be clear, i'm assuming the fermentation of this mixture should happen in a closed environment, or should i let it breath maybe by covering it with plastic wrap. poking holes in it, and then covering with a paper towel?

I am also brewing some lactobacillus from rice.

How do you make it?

followed the directions from Gil Carandang's Beneficial Indigenous Organisms page that i found a link to from this forum (see link below). I put two types of rice (white and sushi, about 3/4 cup each) into a tupperware container last night and covered rice with water and left it over night. I strained it this morning and put the rice water back into the container and put the top back on it but didn't screw it back on all the way. Supposedly, after 5 to 7 days, i am supposed to strain it and add 10 parts milk and let it sit for another 5 to 7 days. The milk coagulates, and you separate the fat/carbohydrates/protein from the serum and are left with pure lactobacillus which can either be refrigerated or can be left at room temperature if molasses or raw sugar is added to it to feed them.

"Lactic acid bacteria serum can be applied to plant leaves to fortify phyllosphere microbes, to soil and compost. Of course, it will help improve digestion and nutrient assimilation for animals and other applications mentioned before. For any kind of imbalance, be it in the soil or digestive system, lacto bacilli can be of help. " Gil Carandang

If im not mistaken, didn't i see a response of yours on another post that said you can do the same thing with cereal grain? I wasn't sure if it was the same, but this is all new to me so i wouldn't know anyways. If it can be done with cereal grains, how do you keep other microorganisms from competing with the lactobacillus? Carandang says adding the raw milk kills off any other competing cultures. I don't mean to appear as someone who invests everything in what Carandang says but as far as my very limited research goes, he and a few others' discussions on this forum comprise the totality of the research i have done thus far on these topics. Any suggested readings would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the quick response.
Chris

Here is a link that might be useful: BIM Carandang

I asked you because Gil Carandang's recipe use not only rice, but also a milk.

This recipe seems neither economical nor practical:
1. Is rice a byproduct after washing it to get rice water? Where to put it after if you want to make many of BIM?
2. What for milk is used? As a food for lactic acid bacteria? Isn't it better to feed them with rice only where they are taken from? And again what to do with leftover milk if you have no many animals to feed them?

I am thinking about recipe of making lactobacillus just only from the rice. I would make it so:
1. Make rice flour from the rice by milling (like coffee)
2. Put 2 tablespoons of rice flour in the big cup, add some hot water just to make liquid dough
3. Add 1 teaspoon of MALT
4. Mix very well and put in warm place for 12-24 hours.

Resulting stuff must be acidic with nice smell. This stuff is called sour dough. Nice thing! Used in bakery to make sour dough bread.

Then add sour dough to 1 litre (1/4 gallon) of water.
Wait 1-3 days stirring it sometimes.
Pour out in another vessel to separate from sediment and add 1 tbsp. of molasses and keep closed under the tap.

I didn't tried it with rice but tried with rye and wheat flour. It works.

Malt is added to transform starch (main carbohydrate in all cereals) to sugar. Sugar is main food for lactobacillus. If you have no malt then add molasses.
Malt is sold in bakery stores sometimes.

Generally, this is a recipe for fermenting almost all cereals. I made it even without malt and molasses or sugar. It works but using malt is more economically eficient because starch is not thrown out.

If it can be done with cereal grains, how do you keep other microorganisms from competing with the lactobacillus? Carandang says adding the raw milk kills off any other competing cultures.
Raw milk has a plenty of simple carbohydrates which are a food for lactobacillus. So, they dominate in the start and make lactic acid which then kill most of other microorganisms (besides yeasts). Some cereals has more those carbohydrates and thus more suitable for "BIM".
Other cereal grains (such as corn) also may be used for growing lactobacillus, but need to sterilize first from other competing microbes by boiling with inoculation of LB (often a tablespoon of wheat flour) then. Wheat flour serves here as a source of lactobacillus. They are not in the air. They in the flour. For rice it's true too.

I sprinkle and water home plants with LB made from cereals.
Amazing! Great idea! I also make probiotics the same way with addition of herbs, fruits and berries. Wonderful thing for the health!

Follow the advices in the link bellow.
Hope this help.

Here is a link that might be useful: BREWING A LACTO FERMENTED BEVERAGE

I found a link from previous link. It's extremely interesting. Product "Wholegrain Liquid" is exactly what I was talking about.

INGREDIENTS: Malt, Whole Organic: (Oats, Maize, BD Rice, Alfalfa Seed, Pearl Barley, Linseed, Mung Beans, Rye Grain, Wheat, Millet), Buckwheat, Filtered Water added, fermented with natural organic lactobacillus bacteria and symbiotic yeasts.

This is exactly Russian Kvas.
The only thing besides cereal grains there is Malt.
Malt is as old as bread and more old than butter.
It is possible to buy it or to make by yourself.
In an unlimited quantities and very cheap.

Then EVERYTHIVG can be fermented in Kvas: garlic, ginger, onion, pepper, banana and orange peels, plain ordinary weeds and so on. Resulting extract may be VERY useful in gardening.

I found fermentation process with lactobacillus bacteria and symbiotic yeasts extremly interesting and fascinating. Thousands of delicate aromas and they are always pleasant.
Easy to make, easy to use, cheap and so healthy both for plants and people! Product number 1 for gardening!

Good gardening!

Here is a link that might be useful: Wholegrain Liquid

How much of this stuff are you going to need for 14 acres?

And does Gil have any data showing that it really works - treated versus untreated plots, where the person doing the farming and evaluating don't know which is which?

Neat links, thanks for the information. I wonder how easy it would be to make a malt solution like that?

Lazygardens, i imagine it would take quite a bit to cover the 14 acres but for now, i am just experimenting with it in the garden. If it seems worth the effort, i will just use ginger and garlic that i grow and beer that i brew to make enough for the what i will need. i haven't seen any data, but as he is not selling anything, He is giving information on techniques that have been used for a very long time in sustainable agriculture. I am going to experiment with it and i can keep you updated if you wish. There are some great links on this site regarding methods for sustainable gardening that i believe could be applied to small scale horticulture and farming. If you are interested, do a search for stuff like biochar, BIM (beneficial indigenous microorganisms), or bug juice, and just follow the links that people have posted. You can get lost for days and some of it seems extremely promising.

I wonder how easy it would be to make a malt solution like that?

One of the way.

Here is a link that might be useful: Making Malt at home.

I make 1 litre of fermented cereals' liquid from 1 tbsp. of any flour.
This ratio (cereals/water) is approximately 1:20. So, I can make 20 litres of all purpose "fertilizer/pesticide" from 1 liter (1 kg) of any grain. After mixing it with water it is 200-1000 litres (and it is still very robust). It's enough for 1 acre for sprinkling.
14 acres will need 14 kg of cereal flour at once.
If use it 7 times per season, it's approx. 100 kg of grains. And the same amount of molasses. So, calculate the cost.

Thanks very much for all the info.

Malt.

Here is a link that might be useful: Another nice video how to make it

Though i have gotten a little off topic, i still am curious as to how much liquor to add to my ginger garlic extract. He compares it to a tincture so i suppose it is a great deal more liquor than the other contents combined. If that is the case, it will have a pretty high alcoholic content. Can that be bad for the soil or the plants that it will be used on? I'm not sure if it needs to be diluted like his other concoctions because he doesn't say. He seems to get off of the topic of the ginger/garlic extract. Would the high alcohol content hurt as a foliar spray or should it be diluted?

Let's restart this thread:

If you have experience with making this extract can you tell us what is the ratio of alcohol added at the end?

also, do you leave in the chopped garlic and ginger when you add the sugar? How about when you add the alcohol?

Hey Citysoil... I'm taking his Microbiotic seminar right now...second day tomorrow where we'll be talking about those extracts and BIM...will update you :)

Okay I'm at Gil's farm now.

Whoever asked about he Ginger garlic: add equal amounts of Ginger and garlic, then add enough beer to cover it. After 12 hours, add 1/3 amount of sugar relative to your ginger and garlic. Ferment for 5-7 days. Then add 40% Proof alcohol to arrest fermentation.

It doesn't matter what kind of sugar you use as long as it's not white sugar. :)

Oh and yes you dilute the tincture in water before applying to the plant

HELP! I am lost in all the BIG words.
Valerie ru, lactic = means milk? If so, how do you make it with out milk or are you scrapping the plan & going with a new one.
As for the rice, I would use brown rice, then cook the rice & eat it. Make another batch when needed. You can not eat to much rice, some culture live on rice, the way others live on meats.
Not sure why you do not drink milk, unless you are vegan, but you can get, pints or quarts of whole milk.

What Gil taught us at the farm is that it doesn't matter what kind of rice wash you use. You can get technical and experiment with different kinds of rice wash...but for him, it's starchy water (aka CARBS) that are important. There was an American at the seminar (I'm in the Philippines and the seminar was at Gil's farm) who asked if he could use potato wash since he doesn't prepare rice back home. Gil's response?

"What do you think?" *wink*

We Filipinos eat rice with every meal, so we get rice wash all the time.

A woman in the seminar who was lactating even asked if she could use breast milk. Gil said breast milk is the best milk, and if she can afford to pump THAT MUCH milk to make lactobacilli culture, then go ahead...but of course he quipped, "Why deprive your baby of breast milk when you can use the cheapest pasteurized milk in the market for culturing lactobacilli?"

He also said that he uses the curd on top of his culture for bread spreads. :) It's basically cottage cheese. When he's feeling "gourmet-ish", he'll pick some herbs in the garden and toss them in with the lactobacilli while it's fermenting and he'd have herb cheese. :)

to ainadaliel, post of Jan 30,11 at 0:22

just an additional question on the using of the garlic/ginger extract. before use,,,,how much is it to be diluted? 1:100,,,1:1000? what have you found to work best?

thanks a bunch!

ainadaliel,
Thank you for information on ginger garlic extract.
Could you please provide a little bit more information?
1. How much alcohol should i add?
2. Dilution: the same question as sumfarmer placed.

thank you for sharing information

I found Hindu recipe for ginger garlic extract:
Another tried and proven mixture she uses is ginger garlic extract (called inji poondu karaisal in Tamil). About 1 gm of ginger and garlic each, 2gm of green chilli and 5 litres of cowâÂÂs urine and water are taken. The garlic, ginger and green chilli are ground into a paste and mixed with cowâÂÂs urine and water. After 10 days the mixture is filtered and used.

The prescribed quantity is about 500 ml of this solution diluted in 10 litres of water which can be sprayed over the plants.

Moved it higher so ainadaliel could answer questions.

Thanks, ainadaliel

I am wondering if adding kefir grains would a) add anything to the mix and b) speed the process up. Has anyone tried this?