I found another photo that is a good representation of the slope in the front yard:

{{gwi:317528}}

Oops, I meant to say "K46" in this sentence: "Anyway, does this property look like it will bog down or kill a K46 transmission over time."

I don't think it will kill it, but might have trouble later on.
But, my question is this: How many sugar cubes did it take to build your home and the car? They are really different, and the car will probably cause some wrecks on the hiway, caused by gawking drivers!
Chortling by Rusty Jones

So would you say "later on" means after the warranty expires (in 2-4 years, depending on the product)?

Sugar cubes melted, since replaced with LEGOs. :)

A K46 would be fine there. What kills them are folks that go "up/down" across a long steep bank or super long uphill grades that never give the trans a chance to cool down. For every up slope you have, you'll also be traveling down on the next pass, allowing the trans to cool. You'll be fine.

That's a good point (thanks for your input too, btw). Just to clarify, when you say "A K46 would be fine there" do you mean that you think it would be fine for the entire service life (8-10 years) I plan to keep the tractor?

Also, what if I am towing something up those hills and not cooling it off by traveling back down again (because I'm not mowing)? Just want to make sure I understand if there is a distinction to your statement that I'll be fine (for both mowing and towing, or other duties).

Enginetech said,
"For every up slope you have, you'll also be traveling down on the next pass, allowing the trans to cool."

I think holding back the weight of the tractor and driver
on the down slopes creates heat in the trans too. Some people with steeper slopes have experienced free-wheeling,
where the hydro can't take the pressure put on jt so it lets go.

Your neighborhood looks fairly affluent, you ain't no pauper. Get yourself a model with a K71 transmission and be done with it. Cut, pull, drag, push, and till. REJ2.

bmwbig6,

The durability of the K46 will always be on your mind. Every time you hear it whining on the slopes you will think- is it going to bite the dust-. Get something a little more heavy duty like a John Deere X320 with the K58. One of these can be had in the $3500. price range. It will be worth it for the peace of mind.

From the looks of your yard, I don't think it is well suited for rider, especially your back yard. If you do, I would get a narrow deck and the lightest model, otherwise you are going to tear up all but the flat sections out front. For this yard, I would look at a self propelled push model.

Yes, I prefer the narrow, 2-blade 42" decks. What is your reason for suggesting the lightest model? Less mass for an equivalently equipped (K46 transmission) tractor to haul uphill (like a higher-end LA series such as a LA165 that also has a K46)?

And what do you mean by tear up? From the weight alone (when turning?), or from spinning the tires (due to lack of traction on hills)?

A self-propelled will no doubt make the mowing easier, but won't cut significantly faster than my push mower, and obviously won't help me much with moving dirt and other materials around the yard. Not to mention aerating, spreading, etc.

Side note, I just found the frequently referenced "Slammer's Rules" for buying a tractor in the forum archives. Rule #1 says to "Carefully evaluate the size mower you need and buy at least one size larger." But that is a little vague to me. Does that mean one size larger deck? Or in general (frame, motor, transmission, deck, tires, etc.)? Not sure if that means:

- a person looking at an LA135 should bump to an LA165, or all the way to an X300?
- a person looking at an X300 should bump to an X320, or a whole level to an X500?

Yes, primarily from turning. You will be making tight turns and in a short period of time you will start to make "grooves" in your Bermuda (I assume you have a sandy base under the bermuda, if not you will eventaully need one). To prevent this, most people change the direction they cut, it didn't look like you would have a lot flexibilty here, of course I may be wrong. I suggested light weight to minimize "wear" on the yard when making tight turns. A 42" deck is still pretty wide, when you cut in the back, I think you will find the edges of the deck "dig in" in several places. Given your other chores, deck removal may become important. I would ask your JD dealer to bring out a model he recommends, and give it a try. Other posters have reported on this in the past and I think the dealer would do this, JD also has a 30 day trade policy of some type that allows you to switch if it turns out you got something you were unhappy with. I have a friend down the street who bought a rider for a similar yard. Some areas worked great, others not so good. You'll laugh at this, but he pays a service to cut his yard and uses his tractor almost soley to do tasks like moving sand, spreading etc.

Hmm, I guess this is where the wider/larger tires are beneficial (larger contact patch to distribute load = less grooving)? Yes, there is some sand, but underneath is thick Georgia red clay (it probably will displace as you say). And I know what you mean about changing direction every cut. I was planning on doing that but yes variations are probably limited, especially since I would favor routes that avoided climbing steep inclines over a short distance, or those that threatened safety. I guess it's all a trade-off and will take a few cuts to optimize the best paths.

You mention many good points, some I didn't even think of (deck possibly digging in). The 42" decks (for most manufacturers) only have 2 gauge wheels on the front, while the wider decks generally have 4 (one at each corner). Yet another trade-off: wider deck w/ more deck wheels, but maybe more prone to digging because of width, vs. narrow with only 2 deck wheels.

I'll ask the dealer if they're willing to come and demo a product. They're probably more willing to do that on a $10,000 piece of machinery than something in the $3000 range, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I just want to narrow down the selection of tractors so that the dealer doesn't have to make 3 trips because I didn't do my research. Otherwise yes, I would definitely exercise my 30-day return option if something I picked didn't work out. Thanks for reminding me about that.

Slammer's rules basically mean don't underbuy and have regrets later on . You seem set on a Deere , but have you considered Simplicity ? I got my Broadmoor (K57 trans) for $3050 three years ago . The price has gone way up on that model , but you could probably call around and get a deal on a 07 leftover in your price range . Although I don't think you need more than a Regent even with the K46 as your slope doesn't look all that steep or your lawn all that large to keep it running long enough to damage it by overheating . Good machines definitely worth a look .

Here is a link that might be useful: Simplicity

I think you'll be surprised, the Deere and Cub dealers in North Metro Atlanta, both offered this. (deere dealer on highway 9 north of roswell, I forget their name and Lanier Tractors on Buford Highway). Both of them wanted assurances that if it worked, they would leave it and the sale would be final. I have a simplicty broadmoor and I'm not sure you would be happy with it, you will be doing alot of backing up and that is (IMO) a drawback of their deck system. You can easily back up (in fact their RIO is great), but you have to be carefull not to snag the rear rollers on things like the sidewalk or driveway and I have found that backing while in a tight turn tends to scrub the rollers. The simplicity deck is really easy to take off and on your flat areas would give a great cut.

I'm open minded and have no brand loyalty one way or another. Deere is at the top of the list, but that's mainly because they've got great reviews and there is a dealer down the street and 3 more dealers within 15-20 miles. Closest Simplicity dealer is over 30 miles away, and I hear many have already closed up in this area, making me wonder what parts availability will be like 5-10 years down the road.

I deliberately didn't specify a brand or model in this thread, because so many lawn tractors in this performance/price range use the same K46 transmissions. My preference of 42" deck and some other features will limit the selection, but the purpose of this thread was mainly to determine if a K46 would serve me well for many years to come (and not poop out prematurely right after the warranty expires or sooner!). What the K46 comes packaged in (be it Deere, Simplicity, etc.) is not the focus of this thread, but I certainly appreciate and welcome everyone's suggestions.

So far, most of the responses have indicated that the K46 may be fine after all and upgrading would be more for peace of mind than necessity. If it's determined that the K46 is only borderline acceptable for my yard and I need something beefier anyway, then archived posts on this forum seem to tell me that I should begin considering a GT instead of just LTs, like the Cub Cadet GT2542, which should be able to handle more versatile tasks and seems to represent a pretty fair value too. Admittedly, I haven't done enough research (yet) to know the quality of their cut or reliability though.

Check out the Kubota T-series lawn tractors since you're not brand loyal. It will easily handle your chores for years. Our local dealer has a T-1670 on his showroom floor for $2850 plus tax.

You'll even be promoting your state's economy since they're made in Gainesville, Georgia.

Hmm, they're a little closer than Simplicity (26 miles). I can't tell from their website what transmissions are in each of their models (they just say "hydrostatic." In fact, the specs don't even tell you who makes the engines (do they make their own?).

^^^ ignorant about Kubota...

A post was made suggesting going for a tractor with a K71 transmission. My 325 tractor has a K70A transmission, which is no longer in production. Does anyone have any experiences or comments about this transmission? So far, it has worked fine, and is about 7 years old. Thanks for any input. Charles Ranheim

They use hydro-gear 2000 series transaxles in the T series, at least they did. They revised the T-series this year, so I'm not sure what the new models have.

The T1570 and T1670 use a Kohler single and the T1770 and T1870 use Kohler twins. The new T-series use Kohler twins.

The new T-series also has the new "infinity" deck which will side-discharge and mulch. They also now have 22 inch rear tires and cruise control.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hydro-Gear GT series transaxles

I just bought a Simplicity Regent that I test drove on my property. That little slope in your backyard is my entire front yard for about 75'. I drove up and down my yard, simulating the most extreme mowing pattern. It did not whine or struggle in the least. Granted it is cool up here in Ohio, but I feel I got as good a test as possible. During the summer heat it may whine at me or it may not. But, I am confident that it will never fail. It took about 10 ups and downs to complete the front yard.

Altering my mowing pattern by going diagonally or even side to side will help if I feel the tractor is struggling. The gentle slopes in your front yard will be no problem for a K46 based on how mine performed in my test runs. When I look at your very short run up the steepest part of your yard I am envious.

One thing I have noticed in the new JD lineup is the SUB K46 transaxles in their lineup. You have to buy a LA 165 on up to even GET a K46. They put a K40 in anything below a LA 165. This to me is nearly criminal. To get a transaxle above a K46 you have to spend $4k on an X320. This could give you confidence in a K46 or give you confidence in JDs ability to turn a buck. My view is bias as I am so totally sold on my Regent, but numbers didn't lie when it came to the bottom line. My Regent 20/38, not the lowest end Regent that sells for 2k with a K46, was $2300 out the door after trading in a high end blower. To get the tougher transaxle I would have had to buy to what amounted to nearly two Regents! The turn radius on the Regent would also be a boon to you, as it is much tighter that anything out there. After you stripe your lawn (Simplicity's claim to fame) you'll have the best looking lawn in your neighborhood. Simps cut is the best in the business, even my JD dealer stated that.

You could go the Craftsman route and get tons of specs but hit or miss quality. I truly think the K46 will have no difficulty in your yard. If it whines and breaks down in 5 years, so what? Just buy another 2k Simplicity and you'll be at break even or better and have a new tractor in the interim. Near as I can tell you have to buy used, spend 4k, or buy a Craftsman to get a transaxle above a K46. You're right. Spending 4k on a tractor for your lawn is silly. Realize that these things are fairly disposable and don't be disappointed if it breaks down in 5-6 years. Just buy another one. I don't like it, but that's the market right now.

If Simplicity is out, check out Snapper. Snappers are basically Simplicity's without the deck rollers. They are owned and manufactured by Briggs and I hear Snapper is big in your neck of the woods. Go to a dealer, don't get a Sears Snapper. The Snapper I saw in Sears had a Hydro Gear transaxle that didn't stack up to a Tuff Torq product.

In the end, I really feel you have no worries with a K46 given your small lot. Every maker out there just about demands the initial layout of 4k, Craftsman excluded, to get a beefier transaxle. Even with Simplicity you have to lay out 4k for a Broadmoor. BS I say. 20 year quality exists in the tractor world nowadays, but it costs a heap of money to get it. For guys like you and I whose yard's needs are not demanding, 2k tractors make sense. Buying in this price point also gives me freedom of choice later on when my needs may change. Heck, 5 years from now I may not even need a tractor. Hope this helps as I just went through the same process as you.

Hmm, I just checked out Snapper's website and they list Hydro Gears in their 100 series. Maybe the Sears model is the dealer model after all. Just buy the Regent. I chose the Briggs V twin over the Kohler single as the Briggs had noticeably less vibration and a smoother ride. The dealer may be 30 miles from you, but a local Snapper dealer may be able to service a Simplicity as they are so closely related.

I understand Hydro Gear makes good high end stuff, but their LT series doesn't match well with Tuff Torq's K46.

One last thing, if you chose a 44" deck in the Regent you get a Heavy Duty K46. I wanted a 38" deck for storage purposes. It's a shame more people don't understand what they are missing when they buy a Home Depot/Lowes Deere or don't visit a small engine shop that sells higher end consumer tractors. I know I sound like a Briggs rep, but I'm just obsessive compulsive when I spend anything in the 4,5,6 figure range. Can't imagine what would happen if I had to spend 7+ figures on something. They'd lock me up.

bmwbig6: is it just me, or does it look like you live in a neighbourhood in Cumming GA... in fact, I think I can see my parents house in one of your photos!

The K46 is fine for that lot - but if you want 8-10 troublefree years, get the X300 or 304, instead of an LA series (if you are even considering an LA). The tranny is the same, but it's the other parts that will last longer on the X3xx machines. The 304 may be better for your tight turns. The X320 / 324 has a beefier tranny, but they also come with bigger decks...

Your grass cutting time will be what.. maybe 15-20 minutes?... your tranny won't even warm up with that amount of run time... so heat is not the issue. Same with pulling things - your distances are so short, you have nothing to worry about.

One thing with an aerator though - if you are in the Lake Lanier area, the soil is quite thick with clay.... meaning you will need quite a bit of weight on an aerator to allow it to penetrate... that weight will call for more pulling torque - not a problem for the tranny, but wheel-slippage will damage your grass... so you will need chains, or different tires for better traction etc... My recommendation would be to ensure that when you run the aerator, that you run it in the down-hill direction only, in other words, go up hill with it lifted... that helps with traction problems, and will then also reduce the strain on your tranny - making the K46 choice even more appropriate.

I have an L120 with a K46, and over 2.5 acres with this hill on it (see below). I use an aerator lawn roller, etc... 450 hours and almost 4 years - no problems.
{{gwi:317529}}

@ swimjim, wow you really covered every angle. You and I probably think very much alike, though sometimes my wife needs to save me from analysis paralysis. If you think this is bad, you should have seen me picking shore excursions on our last cruise vacation! Ditto your comments on the T40 transmissions featured in the "lower" LA series JD's. I will certainly have to take a closer look at the Simplicity models. The striping sounds cool, though I'm not sure I'm going to go semi-pro with my lawn anytime soon. If I get it too perfect, I won't let anybody walk on it (don't laugh, I have a neighbor like this!).

@ wally2q, You're not too far off with your Cumming guess. I'm actually on the other side of Atlanta, near Athens. Yes, it should only take 20 minutes to cut my yard (maybe less with practice). Good tips about using the aerator, we have the same dense clay here too. Your hill looks more serious than mine--do you run it up/down, or across diagonally?

Before I forget, I want to thank everyone for all of your grade/slope assessments, advice and tractor recommendations! I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger on anything yet (more research of course) and certainly welcome more feedback, but wanted to let everyone know I appreciate the input I've received thus far. This message board is a great resource, and the people on here really make it special.

I run up and down the hill I have... pulling the aerator up that hill is strenuous... down the hill is a piece of cake....

Mowing up the hill is no problem. I interchange mowing up and down, and laterally, to prevent permanent patterns developing in my grass.... No problem with that hill, either from the tractor or the K46 that's pushing it. As I mentioned before, my K46 racked up 450 hours of working hard: mowing, towing & pushing snow.

I'm not certain that all brands offer this, but I thinks some of the 40-44" decks can be adapted with accessory rollers or roller extensions. Simplicity is obviously the king of roller suspension and no additional hardware should be required with their setup. Their deck is very easy to remove, striping is a nice effect, and their tractors are durable, quality machines. A Simplicity was my 2nd choice when I was a buyer. Having written that, I'll echo some comments from above. The floating deck was obviously designed to be pulled, not pushed. That may be a concern when turning and reversing. (I thought the Simplicity ergonomics were a little primitive, too.) Anyway, another brand's small deck with added rollers isn't going to match the Simplicity's full-width roller design, but it should allow you to get into the tight spots, reverse, and prevent the worst of the scalping. So, there's another option.

I'd also recommend an all-wheel steer tractor for your back and side yards. There are some non-AWS designs that have a really tight turning radius. They achieve this with a sharp angle of the front wheels only. During a turn, the inside rear tire gives the lawn a noogie. You'll have to call "no backsies" between passes or expect grass stains on your head. A trac with wide tires (to prevent "rutting") will exacerbate the noogie. AWS nearly eliminates it... and it's way funner... but it's not cheap.

My "issues" when buying a trac included some of the same you have: a few tight spaces, sensitive turf, and a limited budget. (I don't have the hill problem.) If I had to do it over again, I'd look for a gently-used, 2 or 3 year-old model. Sure, it may not last as long, but which makes more sense in the long run: buying the right trac and having it last 8 years, or buying the wrong equipment and having it last 10? For your needs, I'd go for something similar to the JD X324. Don't limit yourself to that specific model; just look for something like it.

Have fun shopping.

Varmint_304, I'll probably be going into reverse a lot on my tight property, so that's why I'm still on the fence on the Simplicity floating deck. No doubt it can't be beat on my larger, flatter areas. The possible dragging on the tighter turns concerns me too, which is something I won't be able to tell without a test-drive.

Any particular reason you suggested an X324 (or equivalent) for my needs? Reading between the lines, it sounds like you're implying the K46-equipped X304 (or equivalent) may not cut the mustard? X324 is another thousand dollars more than the X304.

Searching the used market, I can see that I can buy a lot more tractor for my money and there are a few nice deals for machines with under 100 hours (even under 50 hours). Problem is, they are all far away and shipping costs add up. I'm not seeing too much local to me (yet, but I'm still looking). The other negative is, they are out of warranty or have a couple months left, while the newer JD's have 4 years of coverage. The CC's seem to be caught in the middle (3 years?) and I can't say for sure about used Simplicity models.

"Reading between the lines, it sounds like you're implying the K46-equipped X304 (or equivalent) may not cut the mustard?"

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. I do think the K46 will serve well. But if going with a used model allows you to get something beefier for the same dollar... Hey, that's a little peace of mind. I know I could use all the pieces I can get.

If you could still get an X304 with the K58, that would be the trac I'd recommend. That's what I ride. Tiz a plucky little trac. I was fortunate enough to start shopping when the 2007 models were still available. I love it - just to rub that in a little more.

If you can bear to start the season with your pusher (oh, the humanity!) I say do that while scouring the ads for what you really want. People do funny things at the start of any seasonal activity. I'm willing to bet pre-season upgrades are not uncommon. "Ooooh, the new ones have mud flaps. Can I trade mine?" Some of us just can't help ourselves.

Thanks for clarifying your point for me.

Side note, I have already used the push mower and in the beginning I thought to myself "hmm, this isn't so bad" but toward the end of it, I felt exactly like I did last October when I swore off the push mower. I'll probably be using it a couple more times before I make a final decision, but I'll be examining my yard more carefully with a rider in mind.

Kinda funny. After posting my messages here I called up the dealer and got the 22/44. I paid $300 to upgrade the engine, wheels, deck, and transaxle. Not too shabby. Dealer completely understood my needs and was very helpful in getting me the right tractor within my budget.

Whatever you wind up buying, USE A DEALER.

I will definitely use a dealer (unless I buy used?). No box stores for me!

$300 for all that sounds like a very worthwhile upgrade. Very happy to hear it, and can't wait until I can enjoy the "fruits of my labor" (research) too!

Just when I had convinced myself that a K46 would suit me just fine, the local JD dealer tells me he does in fact have a leftover (but still new) 2007 X304 with the K58 transmission. The hood is a little faded from sitting outside but they're willing to knock a few hundred off the price since it's an 07 (still covered by 4 year warranty though), throw in delivery and an accessory I want. I was looking at Simplicity's and Deere's current offerings and while there are plenty in my price range with the K46, I'd need to fork out a lot more money to get a new tractor with a K58 from anybody. Used market didn't yield many good matches in my local area either (shipping charges would cancel out any cost savings from buying used since they were all so far away). So now that I have an opportunity to buy a new tractor with a K58 at a price slightly lower than I was willing to pay for a K46-equipped model, I think I may have found the win-win situation I was hoping for. This will hopefully give me the "peace of mind" I was looking for too, not that I think a K46 wouldn't suffice for my needs.

The only thing I seem to be giving up is the deck washout port that the new 2008 models have. Is that a big deal or just a convenient feature to have?

Grab that lil' sucker. ;-)

Opinions on the deck washout ports vary.

Many say that using water on the deck regularly is not a good idea. Clippings and other mower goo will hold the moisture next to the metal increasing your chances of rust. Excessive use of water may also wash away lubricants. Instead, clean the deck with a stiff brush/scraper and pressure wash it maybe once or twice each season. Keep the use of water to a minimum.

Others will say, bah, it's painted. It's designed for this. It's easy. Go for it.

I don't have them, so I can't comment from experience. I just cleaned mine last weekend. Flipped it over on a pair of saw horses. Used a brush to get the bulk off. Then a can opener (from an old pocket knife) to get the corners and edges clean. Never needed any water.

Grab that leftover 07 JD and don't look back.

It has all you need and want.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

What a deal....grab it before it's gone! The better transaxle will give you a lot of peace of mind and you just can't go wrong. As for the faded hood, I recently bought a used LT160 that was kept in the sun and the hood was quite faded. I just used some automobile cleaner/wax on it and it looks like new!

Like a previous poster said, opinions vary on the washout ports. I have two JD's, one with and one without a washout port. I never use it as I'm from the camp that thinks that unnecessary water is not good for the deck and bearings. When I do clean the decks, I use a stiff plastic spatula and stiff brushes. It's worked fine for me for six years now with no rust on the deck.

I grabbed it! Just installed the mulch kit, and towed a 48" plug aerator with 200 lbs of cinder blocks last night. It whined a little on a couple short hills, but otherwise performed well. Finished the lawn in 15 minutes and the evenness was better than I expected. I really enjoy the 4WS too. Thanks for everyone's help!

{{gwi:317530}}

{{gwi:317531}}

{{gwi:317532}}

A very belated congrats on the new ride. Sadly your pix pulled on the ol' heart strings a bit as I'm attempting to trade in my beloved '06 X304 (bagger, mulch kit). The upside is that I'm after a '08 X534. I was hell bent on a zero turn, however, I fell butt first over a X304 at the local dealer while picking up a part for a snowblower (another sad story) and after a 2 minute test drive I was hooked. I was one that compromised and hoped the X304 would be all I really needed but what I couldn't know was that I would end up using it for a heck of a lot more than just mowing my yard making the X304 ever so slightly undersized. So, as soon as I finish this missive, I'm off to the dealer to get his final numbers and if everything goes as planned, I'll be in debt up to my eyeballs, awaiting the arrival of a X534 48" deck, mulch kit, front blowout baffle kit, snowblower (couldn't fix the old Honda as it was too old) with weights and tire chains. I will seriously miss my X304. She was my "first" mower and would recommend very highly to anyone with an interest.
I learned much wading through all the info and I too would like to say thanks to all.

Cool. One day I may "graduate" to something like an X534 too. Would love something that can do ground engagement too. The X304 has served me well the past 4 months, and it's a real joy to drive (I always have fun with it).

bmwbig6: I'll bet you're happy you were able to get the '07 with the K58 now that you've had it for four months! I'm curious if you have used the washout port at all.....and if so, what do you think of it?

I would warn against using the washout port. Keep water as far away from your deck and bearings as possible.

multiple choice

Which has the greatest possibility of damage to the deck?

a/ Using the deck washout port for cleaning the grass from the underside of the deck.
b/ Leaving grass stuck to the underside of the deck.
c/ Cleaning the grass from under side of the deck with a scraper.

Yes, I feel very fortunate to have found a 2007 model. The K58 has performed admirably, and I have no complaints thus far. The 2007 doesn't have a washout port, so I can't comment there.