Jim, if you don't have a lot of room and your soil is shallow have you thought about the mini or patio roses? I have an area next to the drive way that gets lots of sun but I don't want height. I want flowers, scent and hardiness and the research I have done shows these new roses will do just that.
Susz.

Susz

I actually have a lot of land (10 acres). Unfortunately most of it has only a foot or so of soil. Some with deeper soil is very shaded. I have already made beds, some with raised soil, in the best spots.

My latest spot, around an old maple tree, turns out to be a really dumb idea as this morning I realized it only gets late afternoon sun. Plus needing to move heavy rocks, buy top soil contending with huge roots and upending day lilies already there.

You're right on miniatures which have many great qualities. But my space needs bigger stuff.

I am guessing that your $70 credit will go for about 5 years since only a small percentage of the roses they advertise they actually have, and for every order you receive at least half will be mis-marked. So if you order those 5 roses chances are they will only send you 2, placing the other 3 on back order. Once they bloom you'll realize that 1 of them is obviously the wrong rose, meaning you still have credits for 4 roses for next year. I still have roses on back order from 2003, and do not ever expect to get them even though they still advertise them in their catalog.

Ditto what Mike said. That would make me VERY VERY angry. I would call them and raise holy H#$#%L, until they refunded my $$.

I have had both problems (I ordered a Rose Des Cisterciens once which turned out to be Autumn Damask, and a hybrid tea which turned out to be a mini -- go figure.) Most recently, I ordered about 30 roses from them last summer -- all of which were advertised as available by November and I asked for delivery in November. I called them in November and they said "not yet, call back in a month." I called in December, and they asked if they could send the five they had (thus causing the shipping charges to double when the rest would be shipped) and I said no. I then emailed them to cancel my order, when it got late for Bareroots here in Southern California. They did not (apparently) cancel it, as without warning I suddenly got 18 of the original thirty a couple of weeks ago, which I am currently babying to see if I can get them to leaf out. We've had a cool spring, so it might just work. Fingers crossed.

But again, just call them and demand they refund the double bill. That's just ridiculous.

Kathy

AND GOOD LUCK -- you'll need it.

lol Mike too! Besides the shade factor, you don't want to plant anything that has needs anywhere near a maple if it is still alive. The millions of tiny feeder roots suck the soil dry of all moisture and nutrients.

I looked at the website last night and was pleasantly surprised to see they now only list roses they actually carry. No more massive lists of roses they think they might have or might get in stock someday. Almost all the roses show available now, with a few here and there showing available in October.

I see they list the Meilland shrub rose CESAR. You might consider getting that one. It's a beauty. Makes a nice big shrubby bush.

Dealing with Hortico is like talking to an open window. A total waste of time. If you want top quality roses from Canada, with great customer service, then check Pickering out. You will not be sorry.

Once in a while with H you get lucky. I've been dealing with them for many years. And despite all those promised replacemtns never being delivered it has been worth it.

Yes Pickering is superior but then they don't have many roses that H has. And most turn out to be the right rose.

I can't even keep track of my 100+ roses so I can see why H sometimes has a problem with there 1000 or more. Last Spring I lost a rose supposedly planted in one spot but a different rose grew there. And not H's fault.

Jim, I hope this doesn't distract you from ordering all the new Kordes roses from Palatine. Those of us in zone 5 are counting on you to tell us how they do!

Ruth

I have also had some availability problems and misname problems and not just with Hortico. Unfortunately, Hortico is a place that might be the only source for some varieties. Nevertheless, they should not be double-billing. I can understand inventory problems and maybe not getting enough of something in saleable quality. That can happen anywhere. Therefore, I have decided I just about have to pot up everything to get it going and give it an identity check when it blooms before it goes in the ground. I can flag misnamed plants and maybe give them away if I can't figure out what they are. It also gives me more time to prep the ground since our weather here is so lousy.

I am somewhat chagrined that I'm still hung up on older Kordes roses instead of joining the people who have found Palatine shipping great roses and all the new ones of K.

One of these days I'll get on the band wagon. Meanwhile you newer rose growers get out there and order them and let us now how they do!

If they double billed you, scream for your money back, none of this "credit" business. They are hijacking your money. Unacceptable IMO.

Hey Jim....
Do you grow Elmshorn? Hortico contacted me yesterday to let me know several roses I ordered weren't available and I made last-minute substitutions. Elmshorn is one of the older Kordes I wanted to try so its coming next week. If you grow it, what are your thoughts? I'm in a cold zone too, and was hoping it is fairly winter-hardy.

I ordered all the Fairy Tale series (from Pickering) as well as Lavaglut, Toscana Vigorosa, Fortuna Vigorosa.... and Angelica (from Hortico) so I am adding to my Kordes collection a little at a time. I am interested in the new Kordes, but like you, I also like the older ones. I'm all done ordering for this year, but what are some older ones you like?

BTW, my son and daughter-in-law gave me a red miniature rose for Valentine's Day which has the longest-lasting blooms I have ever seen....and lo and behold, when I went to seperate them to re-pot them I found a tag identifying it as a Kordana. It didn't say which and the Kordes website lists several red miniatures from that series.
I ended up with 5 separate plants that I potted up and even in the house in my bay window they have grown into wonderful, bushy plants loaded with blooms. I can't wait to see how they perform in the garden. I kid you not, the blooms are lasting 4 weeks! Yay, Kordes!

Celeste

celeste

I have 6 Elmshorn's growing in a circle around a Morgengruss. Also interspersed are 6 or so Elveshorn's. Elmshorn is one of my favorite roses. It has the interesting property of dropping the petals and the rest of the flower before it gets old. Always looks fresh. And it bloom continuously.

I'm still hung up on planting the old K's. Like some of the Fruhling's series. I have Maigold which doesn't have the name but is bred from some of the same parents. I think.

Then favorites among these are Fritz Nobis, Raubritter, a new one for me last year, Parkzauber, which grew like crazy in very shallow soil. Has unusual colored flowers and form. Then there is Scharluchglut sp?. Ash Wednesday. And so on.

Thanks for the input, Jim. I am glad to hear that you think so highly of Elmshorn and it seems I made a good last-minute decision. I will really be looking forward to those blooms.

I guess I'm also 'hung up' on the old Kordes. All of the Fruhlings series are wonderful and as soon as I can make more room in my yard for these large shrubs I'll be getting all of them. All of the roses you listed are ones that I've been considering for next year. I ordered Sparrieshoop but Hortico informed me that I wasn't getting it so now I'm sad. Some list it as hardy to zone 6, but others list it lower. I can still order it from The Antique Rose Emporium but now I'm not sure if it would do well here....I still really want it! Any ideas about its cold-hardiness?

I found out that Rosenstadt Zweibrucken, Caramella, Heaven on Earth and Rosarium Uetersen do much better here in zone 4 than most people would think. They are MUCH hardier than my Buck roses (with the exception of Quietness which is bullet-proof).

Thanks again.

Celeste

I don't mean to hijack this thread but just wanted to mention for Celeste's information that I've grown Sparrieshoop since it's always touted as such a good rose and the pictures are beautiful that mine was a viciously thorny rose with canes that grew very thick and in a very awkward way, and the number of blooms was not overwhelming. It may be that it does better in a colder climate but I would not ever face those thorns again!

Ingrid

An interesting side note about H. They are very lenient about promising to replace a rose that died after planting. Contrary to Pickering that doesn't do that. BUT I have yet to recieve a replacemtnt rose. Always it isn't in stock right now and will be back ordered. Then they slowly disappear from back orders and never turn up. Not one! Even though I must have had a least a half dozen promised replacements. I guess they mean well???

But then I never would have had Parkzauber that promises to be a great rose. Of course after only one year, that remains to be seen. This year I've ordered Lubecker
Rotspon a deep red Tantau and a lavender (blue) Kordes, Blue Bayou. H being the only North American source for these roses.

t

I appreciate your feedback, Ingrid. Although I have to admit I was hoping to hear good things about Sparrieshoop.
Maybe it was a good thing that Hortico was out of it then?

I have to say this for Hortico....they have been good about corresponding with me about my order and even though they were out of quite of few of my choices I don't mind making substitutions so long as they keep me informed, which they have. I know from reading here that it is better if I don't put my roses on back-order.... I probably would never get them, or they'd be available at the wrong time for planting here... that's why I prefer to substitute. Personally I haven't had a bad experience with H except for one extrememly runty plant that died, which they replaced. They have a lot of roses I can't find elsewhere.
Their roses are small but I've always had success with them. Out of over 100 roses, only one was mislabeled.
I love Pickering and they are my top supplier, but to be honest I have gotten more mislabels from them.

My orders from Pickering and Hortico are shipping next week.....I am so excited!

Celeste

I did get a few replacements from them this year. You have to keep reminding them that they promised them. Have the conversation by email so you can always go back to it and send them a "hey what's going on with these replacements" type follow up email.

It does work (about half the time).

Kathy

I didn't keep track of the ones they promised to replace. Will have to think about that. But good idea to do it by email. I can imagine they have a mountain of data to deal with.

If you will ever get your e-mail answered. I'm not that lucky. My order from Hortico is supposed to be here, but has not been shipped yet. Katie from Hortico informed me that it is still "snowing in Canada".I tried to e-mail her begging for shipment, because my schedule is going to get really busy again. All my Canadian roses are in the ground already. Still waiting for response..

Hmmm . . . . Very interesting that among the first persons above to trash Hortico is a guy who royally took me to the cleaners on some roses. -- Oh well, the old "do as I say, not as I do" dictum, I suppose . . . Live & learn.

Yep, you are right, I took you to the cleaners! Let's see, you sent me some very nice unrooted cuttings which I offered to pay for. If $20 was taking you to the cleaners, then I apologize, but I have offered numerous times to send you rooted roses and still no response except for the constant complaining. Go out a year ago and see the last conversation about this.

I think you should be more upset about your doctor decreasing your meds each spring...

I am getting very disgusted with "H". They owe many replacements and backorders and I cannot get them to answer e-mails to try and get my account straightened out enough to know just what exactly they do owe me.
When I call I get told that they will have to look up all the information from past years books and will get back to me,but I haven't heard a word from them at all.
I am thoroughly unhappy with them. I just want what is due me and I will never do business with them again.
John

Just a follow-up. Since I had posted my little complaint here, I received a couple e-mails from Hortico with apologies. Actually my roses arrived yesterday. I' m missing only 2 out of 9, and was not billed for them. So, no back order for me! (It was offered though...) The roses look very decent,same in size as Pickering, all on multiflora. It may be just a one-time success story, or may be some real improvement. I simply think it would be dishonest to be only negative about them on my side. Back to planting! Maria

I ordered from them last year without a problem.

Just a warning, a lot of their stuff they list they do not have.I put bolchoi on order last fall they said it would be ready in a week after my order date accoring to the website. I really wanted that rose. I ordered 2 more just to fill out the shipping box. Nothing I really cared about, stuff that I could get anywhere. The time for shipping came and went and I got no word from them. A week later I emailed them and they said that because for the weather their supplier was late shipping. I said no problem just let me know. I waited another 2 weeks and I heard nothing from them.I emailed again and eventually they told me they would not get bolchoi and wanted to send the other 2 roses. I just cancelled my order and let them keep the $12 deposit. I wish I could say I was surprised.

Well, I will have to eat my words a bit here to about dealing with Hortico. They have stepped up to the plate.
I have now heard from H's general manager and he has promised to have one of his office ladies go to work and figure out just what is what with my backorders, replacements, etc....I can't ask for any better than that. That was promised very quickly after an e-mail directly to him explaining my frustrations of feeling dismissed by the office staff.
They are trying to make the situation right. That is what customer service is all about. Not every transaction is going to be perfect especially when dealing with living things such as our roses. They are at the mercy of many outside forces that we probably wouldn't understand without walking a mile in their shoes.
Nobody can deny that their customer service has seriously improved in recent years.
Also, I do appreciate that they have whittled down their lists to hopefully have a better chance at completely filling our orders from their listed availability.
Still, they do have the biggest and best selection in the world. I have always said that about them. They are the only source for many roses.
John

John,
I was glad to hear back that you are getting some help
with your situation. I just posted a thread over on the
Antiques Roses forum with photos of my orders from both
Hortico & Pickering. I was very pleased. I communicated
with Debbie over there and she was very prompt and courteous. Being such a large company and their having suppliers that may not come through for them, sometimes
mistakes or delays happen. I am very pleased with their service and their product. This year's bareroots were comparable in size to Pickering's (on the small side, but good quality) and very healthy-looking. Shipment was on time and actually got here a day early! I got some hard-to-find roses from them that no
one else offers.

Celeste

Well, I have to say I'm pleased too. I got an email out of the blue from the general manager who was enquiring as to how the 18 roses I finally got in March (after requesting November delivery) are doing now.
He gave some suggestions for getting the ones that have not broken dormancy yet to do so.
Maybe they have started reading this forum?

Kathy

They sure did. That is what e-mail I received from them said.

My order came exactly within the time frame I asked for. All roses ordered where there. Oddly two unordered roses were included, one I like and may have been back ordered as a replacement, I don't remember, but never-the-less they charged me for it. And a replacement rose, no charge, was also in the order. First replacement I've ever received! One still on back order along with several that have fallen off their list.

Remains to be seen if the all are as labeled. But I'm willing to trust them.

I ordered this winter with them for the first time. My initial delivery date was to be April 13th. I can vouch for the delays in delivery due to snow, because we got two snow storms after this date. I actually emailed two different times asking to delay my delivery date. A couple days before delivery, I got a voice message (as I was at work) telling me that only 2 or the 4 roses I ordered were now available. I emailed Katie and asked which two were not available, and what about the extra 2 that I asked to have added to the order, which was confirmed. The email I got was "don't know what happened, sorry, but the only 2 available now are.... 1 was for myself, the other for a friend. Needless to say I was very disappointed. I asked about 3 other ones as subs, and was told they were all available and my order would be shipped next Monday. Not a very positive first experience with ordering from them... because I'm not getting the roses I really wanted.

Joan

I was told that my backordered roses will be shipping next week if they get inspected this week. That should make me fair and square with Hortico.
I must say I am impressed with their reaction and subsequent follow through.
John