insure that it is as dormant as can be.. when shipped from AZ to PA .... [i really dont know what that means with an evergreen oak in z6???]

and then figure out how to harden it off ... for PA ..

you can not take what is basically a greenhouse grown tree.. and put it out in z6 with all the frost freeze issues of late spring ...

but if you wait too long.. then a late transplant with the heat of summer right behind might be a problem ...

did you talk with the seller.. and address the timing issue???

ken

poaky,
There's some hope for success.

There's a live oak - I suspect Q.fusiformis rather than Q.virginiana - that's been growing, in-ground, for 40 years, on the campus of the community college across the street from my office here in Hopkinsville, KY - about 70 mi. NW of Nashville, TN.
Now, I will say that it is in a sheltered location, but has been growing there since about 1970, and has formed a 'copse' of sorts - about a dozen trunks all arising from a central location - easily 25 ft tall, and has a canopy spread of probably 30 ft. My understanding is that that's a common growth habit for Q.fusiformis, but it's also possible that this one was damaged early in its career - either by a severe weather event or a goober with a lawnmower or weed whacker. I've been watching it for nearly 15 years now, and have never seen any evidence of winter damage - and it does produce some acorns, though I've never been able to beat the squirrels to any.

A retired agronomy professor at Murray State University, 60 miles due west from me, has a number of seedling live oaks, grown from acorns he collected on his travels, that are 30+ years old, with no winter damage; as some came from sites in TX, there's a good likelihood that some are Q.fusiformis.

I have a couple of Q.virginiana seedlings here, in-ground, grown from acorns collected at Auburn, AL, that are now 10 yrs old. Most years, they've maintained 'evergreen' status - but last year, all leaves turned brown before spring, but dropped off as new leaves pushed out. Other than leaf-burn, no winter damage(yet).

Ken I have a cheapo greenhouse, I have to put it together yet, it's one of the small flimsy things but should keep the really bad stuff off the tree, biting winds etc. Do you think that will be good enough for this winter? My basement is too warm, 60 some degrees. Our barn has no door so the greenhouse may be best maybe even unzip the door?Lucky p It's encouraging to hear that this tree is growing in zone 6 but you are a more southern zone 6 than I am, I don't know if that matters or not. I have sowed some Quercus Virginiana seed in a sheltered area of my yard, I bought some seed for bonsai and had a couple left, being unable to accept yet that this tree will not grow here, I had to sow the seed in a micro-climate of sorts or it would have drove me nuts til I tried it at least once. The seed is from Florida ( 5 seeds for $4.00 ebay ) so they aren't from a cold area, but nobody is selling more northern seed, if these seed trees die I will be happy with my Q. Fusiformis tree if I can get it to adjust to Pa, which may be tricky.I tried a potted Florida tree in the past ( here in Pa ) of course it got bad winterburn, seeds may be able to adjust better, if not I'll give up on regular Q Virginiana.

the problem with your greenhouse might day day temps.. rather than cold ... unless you are there to fix that 24/7 ...

i would put it in the attached garage .. and insure i brought it in the house if really severe temps were forecast ... like a deep late freeze ... the mass of cement is a good refrigerator in spring ... moderating wild temps fluctuations ...

presuming you are looking for late march/april delivery ... you should be well within its temp ranges .. but for the extremes ... and considering what phase they ship it in ...

have you discussed this with the seller???? when does he think his plant will come out of AZ dormancy???? [if any] ... or when will it start its ACTIVE growth phase ...

i would SPECULATE .. that even though its evergreen.. with the declination of the sun .. it has to have a resting period in winter... vs full bore growth all year ... but then i never gardened in AZ ...

as usual ... with shipping timing.. its all speculation ...

if the plant is guaranteed ... it is usually best to rely on the seller.. since he has a vested interest in NOT having to send another ....

let us know what they say ....

ken

I have sent them a money order and the tree will be dormant from what they've told me. The seller prefers winter shipment, I will have to call them Monday and talk further about the shipment time and the dormancy issue. I want to get the greenhouse up outside but we just got 6 inches of snow last night and 18 degrees outside now.We don't have an attached garage, just a basement and small barn. The barn could suffice if I wrap the pot up in blankets and make sure the soil stays moist. If you think I should wait til March I'll try to get them to send it then.

I tried calling them after this last post and they answered, surprisingly. I voiced my concern and they told me they are in a mountainous part of Az and the tree has experienced 8 degrees and 18 degrees tonight and they are not in any sort of protected area. He told me they are at 4,000 some feet and cold area even though it's Az, and a open barn until outside planting will be fine.The tree is gauranteed also, so I am not worried as much now.

good info ...

darn seller had the info we needed ..

what you need to do.. is match the temps ... at shipping ... and the tree will never know the difference..

though he has low temps now .. he may break into warmer temps.. much earlier than you will ... and that is where my concern of breaking dormancy come to the top ... i really have little info on AZ ..

now.. when does your z6 start getting warmer.. and i dont mean warm .. i mean.. when do the night winter temps.. stop going near zero ... and my guess is as early as march 1st ... and once you know that date.. you can coordinate delivery ... weatherunderground.com might help you with historical temp data ... does this make sense ... [you might research AZ also]

and just FORGET ABOUT THE GREENHOUSE ... we want it to come out of dormancy naturally after you get it .. NOT EARLY ...

your little setup [from what little info i have] .. is really just about giving you a few extra.. early ... weeks to force some early growth ... which would be great for annuals and perennials ... but i see no use with a tree ... i would guess.. that your greenhouse would be going up in early march.. NOT JANUARY ... but i will leave that to anyone who uses one ...

am i getting you any closer to solving this??? you have plenty of time.. so dont get stressed.. just get the research done ... as i often say.. in many of posts regarding trees/conifers ... TIMING IS EVERYTHING.. and this is a prime example ...

get it dormant [it already is] .. and keep it dormant.. until the natural time is is supposed to leaf out.. and you should be all set .... is another way to say it ...

and then just watch for late hard frost or freeze ....

i like to get all my oaks moved and planted [bare root] in the first few weeks of april in my z5 ... and then they just sit there until may when the soil warms and the trees naturally come out of dormancy and leaf out .... and that would be a soil warmth issue .... as to when they break dormancy ...

good luck

ken

link below to wunderground.com ...

i mis-spelled it above

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I wanna know who the seller was! I may need to order one. How large is the plant? What size pot? Can you share the URL?

I have one started from seed, but it is --- oh maybe 1/2" tall right now! LOL!

dave

I have yet to receive the tree. I haven't got the greenhouse up and won't for a while, were getting pounded by snow and bitter cold. I have a redneck cold frame of sorts, a wood crate with greenhouse fabric ( woven see-through fabric) but as suggested it needs to get cold and stay cold to stay dormant and break dormancy for this climate. Late April- May is when I can usually plant tomatoes. Last year it was the day after Mothers day when our last frost came, but usually Mothers day and after is safe.I will wrap the pot a little, maybe put the pot in a bigger pot with soil at the same level but wider, this is a 4x4 wide and 12 inch deep potted tree, (baby) by the sellers info. The seller is Oaks of the wild west, in Hereford, Az simple google or Yahoo search should help find them, that's how I found them. Should I be worried about the tree heaving out of the pot? That's why I'd do the wider double pot thing.Thanks for help. I'm getting worried about getting the tree, I guess if I don't get it by Monday I'll freak out then, he said he'd ship last Monday.

I got an email from the seller and he shipped it Saturday, I thought he said he shipped Mondays, with the holiday and no mail I was surprised he shipped saturday, but I should get it soon.If anyone out there is still interested in this thread, should I worry about the roots heaving out of the pot? Our lows are sometimes 12 F, we are likely to get 8 F in a few days, we haven't been in the negative for years as far as I've been noticing weather anyway.The normal low is low 20's.I guess it wouldn't hurt to blanket the pot if we're due for an extra arctic blast one night.Ken the link you provided, if I took anything from it, it showed how Az is protected from the cold by the warm air of Mexico and the gulf.I hope the Q.F. can adapt to Pa but realize it may not. I think that was what the link was to show.I'm willing to take the loss.

Ken, don't give up on me yet. I spent more time on the link and was able to see what the temps are in Az and I'm not sure how to integrate this tree into my yard. Today my yard was 46 F but Saturday it's going to be 18F high and a rare 8 F at night. They in Az are at 60 F. This tree should be here tommorrow or Thurs, he emailed me the tracking number. Being that it's already seen 8 F when it was at the nursery if it was your tree would you set it out as is? I can put it within reach to observe on a daily basis outside. I don't know if they in Az will be getting more cold spells but I know we are and what do I do with the tree in the mean time? You may want me to put it where the sun don't shine! But seriously if it comes tommorrow do I try some protection until things get closer to the high 30's?

all i can tell you is what i think i would do ...

it was in the single digits here near ann arbor this week ....

if i were to get this tree ... it would go in the attached garage .... which is tempered compared to outside ...

and i would throw a little snow or an ice cube on the pot ... so a little water would be provided if temps went up ... but i would not dump water in the pot ...

and it might come in the house.. for a night or two... if a real deep cold came thru .. back in the garage during the day ...

i want to keep it TOTALLY dormant.. until proper planting time around 4/1 .. which should be about the same for you ...

MAYBE... depending on air temps ... i would take it out of the garage around 3/1 .... and let it start getting used to mother earth's whims .... by that time.. night temps should be well into the 20's ... 30's by late march ...

i can NOT tell you precisely what to do ... all i can do.. is point out the variables i think are important ... BTW ... shipping this time of year.. total dormancy.. should not be much of an issue ....

any better???

ken

ps: come about sept ... we can worry about what to do next winter ....

Okay, I will put it in the barn and try the snow or ice as watering.More than likely March will start to be milder, but we'll cross that bridge then. Thanks for your patience and advice.

you said:

I had to start a new thread because my message was rejected when I tried to add to the original thread. I forgot the most important thing, adjusting the tree to Pa. I have it on the porch, wrapped with bubble wrap ( leaves , branches)and close to brick house, I am afraid it will get less attention in the barn. The porch has a roof and awning and being brick may help a couple degrees, it's between some furniture to slow winds. Ken or anyone else chime in. I want it to be cold but not to shock it.

====>>>>

again.. i have no experience with this particular oak .... nor zone pushing oaks.. etc ... OK???

===>>>>

now to repeat.. you said: I have it on the porch, wrapped with bubble wrap ( leaves , branches)and close to brick house, I am afraid it will get less attention in the barn.

++>>>> it is my GUESS.. that everything is wrong with that statement ...

starting from the end .... and yelling... WHAT ATTENTION DOES A DORMANT TREE NEED??? zip.. zero.. nada ... zilch ... put it in the barn.. with a little snow or ice cube.. and walk away ...

bubblewrap ... WHY???? ... my fear isnt a few degrees of cold.. its that day it zooms up.. and the bubble wrap keeps it too hot.. all night long .... and.. TREES NEED AIR.. not plastic .... if its incredible loose ... maybe.. but IN THE BARN.. i probably wont need it .... YOU HAVE TO INSURE IT STAYS DORMANT.. and the wrap can screw that up .... [carp.. its evergreen isnt it???? .... man this is stumping me ... and i am admitting that.. so you dont take everything i say as gospel ... no attached garage huh????]

i have one truism in the garden.. we kill more things with too much love.. than with benign neglect.. but for water ...

you are going to love this thing to death ... try to avoid that ....

i have to ruminate on this further ....

ken

Okay I get it.Sorry to give you a head ache I am just worried because it's not from a colder zone and I feel it needs special attention. The barn ( or whatever building) is where it is going. As soon as the ground is unlikely to be frozen I'll get it in the ground. I was using the wrap to protect buds more than leaves. But that doesn't mean the tree can't live if the top buds are no good.

Just seeing if I can post again doing what mad gallica said to do