HHH,
That is one hell of a large greenhouse for two people. I am growing lettuce for 4 families in CONTAINERS no less. You could feed a whole block with lettuce from a GH that size I would think. Heck, that is as big as a small house; 728 sq. feet. If money is no object why not start with a smaller one about half that size and that is still BIG. I am building one 6.6 x 15 and that gives me room for 19 containers on the floor alone and that is a lot of lettuce. I see that you want to raise fruit and other stuff, but are you prepared to pollenate it by hand cause NO BUGS INSIDE right? Some things do not requiree pollenation like the lettuce and other greens, but oranges and other veggies sure do. I am no expert believe you me, but those things seem obvious to me.
If you got the money go for it, but be prepared to give a lot away.
Good golly, I could get 18 containers just ALONG ONE SIDE
Man I wish I lived by you.
Hang in there the other will chime in REAL SOON
1eyedJack and the Dawg

HOLLY COW, I could get 121 container in there just using HALF THE FLOOR SPACE.

Do not be fooled - there are bugs in greenhouses that must be controlled. Last winter I fought spider mites and molds/mildews on certain plants despite the low humidity and fan running constantly. A few plants had mealy-bugs even with constant spraying. No way could I keep the humidity up in that little HFGH (6' X 8') despite spraying down the gravel and humidity lovers sometimes twice a day. There's also the problem of heating a GH in winter and cooling it in summer. Here in TN my GHs reach 105 with shade cloths. Much too hot for plants. Even the ants, hornets, spiders and toads fled the heat in June.

I think we could help you more if you told us exactly what you hope to grow in your GH and if you plan to use it year 'round.

We're hoping to grow some veggies over the winter since we have a much lager GH now. Last winter all I kept over were tropical plants.

Well, my impression was the bug fight would not be as hard. There will still be a fight, but it'd be more in my favor, I thought.

Bear in mind I have no idea if some of these is possible or not, but I would ask him to be trying all of the following:

Tomoatos
Cucumbers
Artichoke
Carrots
Celery
Lettuce
Okra
Peppers
Squash

Fruits:
Blueberry
Cranberry
Grapes
Honeydew
Mango
Pear
Strawberry
Orange
Lemon

Things im not sure about:
Bananas, Pineapple

Is it even possible to grow these?

Give or take atleast 10 items, I'm open to a lot of things. I've been reading on seed sites on a lot of stuff I've never heard of that I'd also probably have him try. A lot of the fruit-type stuff seems to get really big and tall, and thus would not exactly be suitable for a GH, even a big one.

Yes, thats a lot of different stuff. He currently grows 8 different items in his small garden, so this should be enough to keep him busy.

As far as year-round use, yes, this is totally what I expected, is to use it year round, as I understand it, this would be the only way to grow a lot of the citrus type stuff, which I love.

From what I read, it seems keeping control of the climate is somewhat easier in a larger GH than a small one, because of the ceiling being so high to allow for better airflow.

My plans were to certainly have a "climate-controlled" GH, so that it could be used year round.

As mentioned, some of these are not self-pollants. There are specific flowers that could be planted nearby that could help with this though, correct?

It seems too, that my impression of a GH isn't clear. I was thinking that with a GH, you could grow things that were totally out-of-season since it would be a controlled climate.

Thanks for the responses & time.

HHH,
Have a look at another forum called "Four season gardening" and it will give you a better idea of what you can and can not do. Look long and hard before you leap. I didn't and it is costing me money and time and frustration. That is on the building of my GH. I only want to grow lettuce and maybe tomatoes so it is a lot easier for me.

Someone else already gave you an excellent reply. I'll just add a few things I've learned recently. During the winter there may not be enough sunlight to get fruit from certain plants such as squash, peppers and tomatoes. Supplemental lighting may be needed. You will have pretty plants but nothing to eat from them. Some, like squash, take up a lot of room. Another problem is if it's cool enough for lettuce that means it's probably too cool for the peppers and toms which love heat. What are your plans if insects or disease do strike?

I'm not trying to discourage you but to encourage you to do a lot of research before you lay out your hard earned cash.

If you do go ahead and things don't work out as you had hoped, you can always sell the GH or switch to tropical plants and flowers. :^)

I read your "wish list" and I have to say that is a lot of fruit. You said you aren't a gardener, but if you want any fruit or veggies, you have to know certain fruits, like pears and apples, will do much better outside, where the chilling requirement will be met...did you ever see apple trees in Florida? On the flip side, the greenhouse would be an excellant place for sub-tropical and tropical fruits like mango, citrus, banana, pineapple,etc. I have grown all of these indoors, and it is adifficult chore...with a greenhouse the possibilities are endless. I think in your situation, it will be easier to stick to one or two varieties...say a citrus house, with all species of oranges, lemons, and limes which can grow to their hearts content and not require the constant heat of tomatoes and squash. (If you keep the greenhouse a cool 50 during the dead of winter, the plants will be fine). Some of the plants on your wishlist are actually cool season, (lettuce in particular) and might be fine growing in the greenhouse year-round if you can keep it shaded and cool.

Please don't take this as rain on your parade but.....have you thought about much organically grown fruits and veggies you could buy with the money involved in the initial investment in the structure alone, let alone the operating costs? Let alone your time.

Its a cold question I know, but I ask it in response to your confession that you are not a gardener, nor "have a green thumb".

My guess is that most of us "gh fools" involve oursleves in the things for a variety of reasons but one of them is usually simply about the passion for plants. If you are also a systems person, a builder or tinkerer as well..even better.

BUT my guess is that few folks really maintain a gh year after year JUST for the veggies or the starts or whatever. For me at least, with orchids, its as much about fiddling about in the gh, "wasting hours" for little return of monetary value and enjoyng the hell out of it.

If fighting whiteflies, paying fuel bills and always being tied to the gh in some manner (who is sitting while you are away on vacation, what do you do when the power goes out for 26 hrs straight?)sounds like some kinda fun, then go for it!

But, if not, then well?.....we raised meat and egg chickens for YEARS and loved it. Probably cost 2-3 times market price for the final product (and had to kill the flapping things oursleves to boot)....but it didn't save money.

Hey, and always remember any advice is worth what you pay for it, huh?

Steve

I am also in the "research" stage of building a GH...I'm going to do it on a shoe string budget, but not entirely becuase I cant spend the money, more because I like the idea of recycling and making the landfills less crowded. So, I have opted to seek out used windows for my GH. I have seen many pics on these forums and also online, and I think that with (either) of the existing structures you already have you could make one of them into a green house. If not with windows, then with other GH material. I'm sure that even the structure with the big metal roof, could be adapted to something usable. I'm certainly NOT anywhere near experienced, so all this is just my novice 2 cents worth. BUT assume that all the others are correct and costs will ultimately add up...if you can save a few grand in the beginning then you have that money to invest into it later on. search this site for a GH built by kellyfg, she used windows etc and it's quite nice. You could easily make yours bigger, (just need more windows) I have found at least a few different sources in my area for FREE windows and I'm waiting for them to come in.

Hi,

Before I type a big reply, I'm wanted to respond to this statement

"On the flip side, the greenhouse would be an excellant place for sub-tropical and tropical fruits like mango, citrus, banana, pineapple,etc. I have grown all of these indoors, and it is adifficult chore...with a greenhouse the possibilities are endless"

This is the kind of direction/push I was looking for. I would be perfectly happy using a greenhouse to grow only tropical type stuff-since they would require similiar climates.

One thing I have realized is that I am talking about a lot of different things and these things require different climates (chilling requirement) -- If I can focus on a small portion of this (and I'm totally sold on tropical stuff like bananas and pineapple) then something like this should be plausible. A small subset like that would require a smaller GH too.

I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it for the "healthiness" of the foods. I'm also trying to "get my feet wet"

Thanks

It's a big adventure, especially to one who does not have any gardening experience to help guide your desires, tempered by your knowledge and abilities. It's all best gained by doing it firsthand. The first steps are always just a big pile of questions and mysterious natural and technical processes.

The best hobbies are those that seem outwardly simple, but have layers of complexity one can grow into. Gardening fits this premise very well.

Perhaps ask your neighbor what their thoughts are. Sounds like your retiree friend may be providing a lot of the sweat equity, at the least their broader experience, unless you are out there shoulder to shoulder, sharing the work load and learning as you go. If their plot is small now, are they willing and up to the task of attending to a large space devoted to a multitude of "new" plants they are not currently growing? Does this person have any gh experience?

Actually, the large greenhouse you're dreaming of could keep three or more people busy. Especially with such "exotic" plants (for a gh) as you're contemplating.

For your circumstances, I'd also suggest starting smaller.

By all means choose a high roof, it does help stabilize temps a bit. Try all sorts of things, but keep it simple, too. Later on, the first gh could become a tropical space, a potting/starting area, or devoted to some more specific use while you add a larger greenhouse that utilizes what you learned in that first, smaller space.

If I were a bug, I'd head straight to that shady area in your pic. Lots of shade, good understory (small plants to cling to and breed in) and plenty of moisture. Bug heaven! Your gh choice probably has plenty of gaps, but a sealed up gh is just heaven for molds and fungus to invade. That'll be harder to control than anything if not dealt with by proper moisture control.

For bugs, you'd need to screen all openings and plug the gaps, which decreases air transfer a bit as well. So, it's all a trade-off of one thing for another. Fortunately, if you can afford it, the liberal application of money can address most of the issues, lol! Seriously, many problems can also be dealt with by addressing them early and it doesn't always take a ton of money if you're willing to be creative, fabricate and scrounge a bit. I made a temperature controlled air exchanger from a couple cheap box fans, an old aquarium thermometer, a relay and a model train transformer! Looks odd, but works great!

You will probably see bugs no matter what. I usually don't have a large problem with bugs, but more than once, an infestation required I sacrifice the plant or plants, as all the bugs were on them en masse and it was easier to just remove the entire plant very carefully and more or less be done with it. I have a few uninvited dinner guests this season, but so far, it's pretty minor. Keeping mulch in place and picking off the dead leaves and keeping it clean helps greatly.

The larger or more gh's you have, though, the greater the area to patrol, clean and treat for problems. But, presumably, the larger space would let you have room to grow things yet get around them from all sides. Still, it can become a chore, even a job, if you over-plan and bite off more than you and your helper can tackle.

One week unattended, you can find disease, bugs, dried out plants, overgrowth with plants flopping over, equipment problems, you name it, any or all suddenly taking over.

It's not like model ship building, where you can park it for weeks or months. Once committed, you are in for the long haul. Sometimes I think I should be committed! ;)

I also wonder about debris from all those trees falling on the gh. An arched roof is strong, but a heavy branch could penetrate or even something minor like bird droppings might become a nuisance if those trees were also nesting sites.

Better to move the gh more into the yard and add cooling and shade cloths. The money you save on the purchase of a smaller gh can be put into the utility bill.

Generally, a gh will amplify certain things and temper others. Overcrowding, lack of air movement or heat and moisture control can run rampant in a gh, yet be milder in their effects outdoors.

On the other hand, nasty weather, cold snaps, rainy drenches or dry spells are more easily dealt with, and the heat problem can be conquered. You can control the bugs for the most part.

Manual pollination of flowers is fun when there's only one or three a day, but I don't think I'd relish having surrogate sex with an entire tree full of blossoms! Somethings like peppers, tomatoes or even squashes it's faily easy, but for cucumbers, it can become an exercise in futility. God made bees for a reason, after all!

I'd love to have a 700+ square foot gh. That's about 7 times the space I have now. I have 6 seasons experience to help tell me what's required, but I'm really just a newbie myself, still experiencing new things every season. I imagine you could start with a space that large, but not try to fill it all right away and sort of grow into it season by season.

Every yard, every situation is different. You won't really know what you need till you get one up and start growing your own stuff. Don't overload and take it into the "job" category, and it should be a ton of fun and healthful foods for you and your friend!

-Ed

So tonite in my research, I have found this:
http://www.geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/sizes.php

A smaller one of these (maybe 18') seems to be what I may be looking for.

This is about 1/3 the size of the others I was browsing at first, but these appear to be quite energy efficent.

The joys, trials, and tribulations of having a GH are summarized nicely above, HHH.

I would add only the following...in a GH, pollination of toms and peppers is easy. Cucs are a different matter, and to handle this problem it is generally advised that you not use garden varieties, but rather use the longer, thinner European cucs.

Next, I have had at least as much, maybe more bug trouble on the typical vegetables as I have had on the exotic, tropical fruits and plants.

Geodesic dome GHs are cool and actually can be built from scratch. Email me if you want more info.

So tonite in my research, I have found this:
http://www.geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/sizes.php

A smaller one of these (maybe 18') seems to be what I may be looking for.

This is about 1/3 the size of the others I was browsing at first, but these appear to be quite energy efficent.

hhmm ignore my message
Sun, Jul 22, 07 at 1:15

as it is a doublepost when I refreshed this page. /shrug

Thanks for the info everyone.
I'm still in the data collection stage on this and pondering everything.

Today I observed my backyard at various times during the day to watch where the sunlight hits directly. It seems the tree in the middle of my backyard will provide more shade than is needed and may have to be removed.

Wait... before you remove a nice shade tree, if it is deciduous, it may be something very useful for your greenhouse operation. Shading in the hot summer is something you will probably have to do anyway, especially in the afternoon. You can use shade cloth, but I would recommend an evaluation of the actual shade from the tree and see if it might be beneficial.