i dont understand if there is a question here ...

if they are so similar.. then just buy more under the other name ????

or is the chase the best part of the game????

if the guy had any sense.. he would have just paid the royalty.. and sold his remaining stock as the other ... instead of enriching the lawyers ... dont ya think???

ken

Hi Ken - I guess it wasn't as simple as you suggested, otherwise there wouldn't be a big court hearing! I agree with you ~ what I don't get is the plant patenting law ... I just love to garden & wish to have Jolly bee!!! Here is the thread in the PERENNIAL FORUM *Geranium 'Jolly Bee' to cease exsistence!* posted by Coolplantsguy (4-21-10) ~ a Canadian (Ontario) a contributor to Horticultural magazines etc. He included a link in case you may wish to follow.

I guess in my poorly posted question & my lack of understanding what happens to a plant that loses legitimacy by a court-mandated-verdict to cease (such as what happened to "Jolly Bee") ~ I wish to know if they can no longer be marketed at all & if they can, are they going to have to adopt the winner's name ~ in this case "G Rozanne"?
Sorry Ken ~ i think this follow up is not any clearer ... but FWIW!!! LOL

i will try to explain, in VERY simple terms ....

joe spends 5 years developing a flower ... and then spends thousands to patent that flower ... at that point he has the right to profit from that flower ...

bill comes along.. and ALLEGEDLY claims.. that he spent the same 5 years developing the same flower ... and starts selling it ..

at this point.. IF THE FLOWERS ARE THE SAME ... which is ridiculous to prove ... then he already lost the race to the patent office ...

if he sells the 'same' flower under his own name.. he is basically stealing joe's profit ..

and hence .... a court case is born ...

make any sense???

but again ... IF THEY WERE PROVED TO BE THE SAME AT COURT .... why are you fixated on one name over the other.. just buy it under either name...

and then come home.. and make a label that has the name you want on it.. it will be our secret ...

heck.. bring it home and call it Ditas Folly ... [just dont try to sell it and profit under a new name ... because apparently joe has a bankroll to chase you down .. lol]

you have my permission to call your plants whatever you wish.. in your garden ... just dont take it to market under another name ...

patent law has nothing to do with you.. nor your garden.. in a general sense .... its all about securing the right to profit on your hard work ...

ken

Well they might look similar but they don't winter the same in my garden, three years in a row Rozanne hasn't made it, Jolly Bee has so in my mind it is a far superior plant. By the way I was growing them side by side.

Ditas ~ Try the Plant exchange Forum, someone might be able to give you a start, I would if I could but there's that darn border in the way. Hopefully someone can help you out.

Annette

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant Exchange

I just want to perpetuate an argument...may as well be honest!
There was a difference between the two in my garden. Jolly Bee is a clumper and Rozanne is a spreader. Jolly Bee had a little more pizazz cause the white in the center/eye was just a tad more pronounced.

Can't argue the legal points, that's all been said and done with. But I sure wish I could find Jolly Bee as well.
Marie

-Ditas, ditto what Annette said. No reason you should settle on another plant if you had your heart set on 'Jolly Bee'. Hopefully you can find someone on the Plant Exchange forum to trade with. Are there any garden groups or plant swaps where you live? Perhaps another gardener there would have a chunk to give you.

Here is the link to the original thread: Geranium 'Jolly Bee' to cease exsistance! MANY people who have grown both agree that there are noticeable differences between the two cultivars. A number even stated that they felt JB was actually the superior of the two...
CMK

As I said earlier, I've tried 3 times to grow Rozanne without success. Last year I bought a small plant of Jolly Bee and yet another Rozanne, planted them side by side to see if I see a noticeable difference, I thought JB looked a little brighter and maybe made a tighter clump but that was about it, they were both about the same size when planted. This spring there is no sign of Rozanne but Jolly Bee is looking good. I managed to winter a small piece of Rozanne in the greenhouse so will give it one more try.

The last few winters have been very wet here, Jolly Bee seems to be more tolerant of wet feet than Rozanne, just my opinion.

Annette

Ken ~ Thank you for taking the time to explain, I understood enough, I guess - I followed the *big to do & hullabaloo* between the 2 nurseries ~ court mandate included ~ even the power of Rozanne's big guns that shoo'd Jolly Bee to silence!!! The fact is from my understanding although the DNA ruled, the actual parentage of the 2 were not 100% identical. The reason it behooves we to wonder & question the morality of the verdict & that money rules!!!

From many reviews I've read, save a few, Jolly Bee seemed to have won in the courts of gardeners' opinion & points added as attested in this very thread.

@Annette ~ Thank you for your suggestion of the *Plant Exchange* - I shall pursue it, since I've set my heart on acquiring one & have staked her *Piece of soil under our Iowa skies*!!! Thank you too for your kind thought ... were not for the *border*! BTW I have a niece in Vancouver ~ perhaps when I visit I might swing by!!! LOL

CMK ~ I guess I first fell in love w/ JB long before I ran into Coolplantsguy's post ~ (the very link you posted here) ~ from another gardener in the Hydrangea Forum ~ I drooled as he described & posted pix of this beautiful cultivar!!!

Marie ~ Your description of your JB makes me even more avid in my search!

Thank you & Happy Easter!!!

Be on the look out for new and improved blue-flowered Geraniums from Marco Van Noort, the breeder of 'Jolly Bee' and many other cool plants. Check out his website below.

I would expect that whatever he introduces will be superior to 'Rozanne' in terms of flower colour, form/habit, and hopefully hardiness.

Here is a link that might be useful: Marco Van Noort

you are welcome...

your next step is at the link ...

just do not do it for profit..

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Thank you for chiming in, Coolplantsguy & thanks as well for Marco's site link!!!

@ Ken - I guess i'll propagate & share, once I gain custody of one!!! Not to worry the only profit I'll make is for my soul.
The few I have & I love dwarfed ~ after reading up on the posts of true collectors ~ I found in the *Hardy Geranium Forum* & since I'm no longer adding another Hydrangea shrub to my collection of 32 (real estate crowding issues) Hardy Gs aficiodados' collections, whet my appetite back ~ need to fill up those precious square-inch open soil!!!

Last season along w/ the 2 Rozannes ~ added 2 G Orkney Cherry - delightful, burgundy chocolate mounds of cherry pink - May to late Fall bloomers that invited lovely green butterflies to my hearts content!!! Yes indeed *When in Doubt Plant a Geranium*!!!

! must really be so naive about these court rulings of *cease & desist* ~~ just happened to asked a plant nursery i deal with ~ I was told that the developer had to destroy every bit of the plant so mandated ~~ soooo sad. Some mandates even add clauses to prohibit so called *friendly exchanges* ~ even sadder.

Ken ~ I'm sure you won't tell on me if I do find a willing partner in such *friendly exchange/share* LOL!!!

May I add to the knowledge base? Or confusion? lol

A few years back I bought a plant labelled Rozanne. I hesitated because of reported hardiness problems but took a chance. It has done wonderfully in my garden. But it doesn't exactly match the pics I've seen of Rozanne (or of Jolly Bee). Close but not a match. So maybe it's Rozanne and maybe it's not. And maybe there are many similar plants out there. Don't know.

Annette may be right about "wet" killing the plants. Mine grows in soil that is quite sandy - never any standing water. I have to water it during dry spells in the summer but otherwise it seems happy with the conditions. Perhaps the hardiness issue is actually a soil/water issue.

Happy to say that at this point the 2 Rozannes are on their way - I knew they showed signs much earlier (firsts weeks of Mar when Ma Nature gave us unseasonably warm sunny 2 weeks followed by 2 wks of below avg temps & much rain. We finally got the sun back & getting warmer (just in time for May Day) ~ Rozannes have thrown quite a few more greens.
I guess I just like the thought of a more up-right growth habit Jolly Bee has from the pix I've seen!

FWIW!

I bought 14 JB two years ago. Only 6 survived the first winter. Since then, I have been trying in vain to find replacements for the 8 I lost (the remaning six are still going strong).

I finally gave up and will replace the JB with Rozannes. Bought them 10 minutes ago.

I am another who was sad to see JB disappear. I planted both JB and Rozanne the first year I tried this type of geranium, and had only the JB survive. I tried 2 other times with Rozanne, all in well-drained beds, but it didn't survive winter, while the JBs I have added did well (including 3 I found last season.) I am glad to hear that Marco Van Noort is continuing his work and we can look forward to more of his plants!

Hi 'tis me again ~ you'd think I'm not gonna get near Rozanne based on my disappointment at not finding JB ~ I did to fill a gap & a 2nd one because my friend lost one of the pair I gifted her on her Bday 2010.

Anyway, I did ~ to finish the pattern in ther bed & put one in a pot. You'd think that the 1 in the bed would flourish faster w/ good amended soil ~ Rozanne #2 likes the pot better ~ twice as large & twice as many blooms! I wonder why?