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Old Town Novato and Forest Ranch Pompom

15 years ago

Now that I'm back from the Sacramento Open Garden with these two long-desired roses I need to figure out where to plant them in my garden. I was going to check the catalog for size information, but I seem to have misplaced my copy. The link is no longer active so I can't download it again. Can anyone inform me what height and width to expect for these two roses?

Rosefolly

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Comments (3)

cemeteryrose
15 years ago
The catalog is still on the Cemetery Rose website. Don't Google for it, just use the link below or the url - www.cemeteryrose.org.

Think we addressed this on another thread recently. Cass prunes OTN to strong wood, about 4' canes, and has a plant perhaps five feet tall and wide by the end of the season. Ours is wider because we prune less hard. FRPP is bigger - again, we let the canes arch, so it's probably at least seven feet wide, and about six feet high at the end of the summer. I think you could prune it similarly to OTN. We've had OTN for just three or four years, and FRPP for a decade at least.

FRPP suckers modestly, the better to make new plants with. I haven't noticed that tendency in OTN but again, that plant is much newer.

Come back to the garden when you have more time. And, when I have more time - Open Garden is hectic for me! I'd love to stroll with you and look at the roses together.
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: Sacramento Sales Catalog
rosefolly
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks, Anita, that would be wonderful. I'd love to come back another time. And thanks for the link and the information. You've given me a good idea of the range of size to expect.
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My wife and I live on a 1/3rd acre block in the Maryland suburbs and I have had to deal with the lawn that came with the house. Putting in a large veggie garden will help get rid of a lot of it. I think that the really hard work comes in getting it established (this depends a little on how you wish to do this and what sort of grass is already there -- some kinds are a real pain to get rid of). But once the garden is established and you get a routine going you will be surprised how little time is required on, say, a 1000 square foot garden. As the last poster noted, fruiting trees and bushes would be a good idea and will also help to get rid of that dreaded lawn. I notice that you seem to live in a well-manicured neighborhood, so perhaps this suggestion is not the best, but one way to keep a lawn down that is a lot quicker than a push-mower and does not use gas is a scythe, though it may not get you the fine cut you are used to with mowers (I have not used one, so others might care to comment on this). I don't see any reason you cannot have bees, provided they are legal (which they usually are, but check local ordinances). At the back of your property line seems like an out of the way spot or you could make an enclosure. We are going to put in bees this spring and there are plenty of people here in the suburbs who have bees on less than 1/3rd of an acre lots. But bees do involve a fair amount of work, initial expense, and a pretty steep initial learning curve. Whether they will bother the neighbors perhaps depends on whether they know about them. There is little doubt that bees in fact visit their gardens throughout the spring and summer. The main worries here --ones we are having to come to grips with -- are bees in neighbors swimming pools and the like (you must provide them a consistent water source) and swarming, the hive's reproductive strategy of splitting where one half of the hive takes off with the old queen to find new lodgings. Can be a bit alarming for people to see 20,000 or more bees clustered in their backyard. There are ways to minimize this -- that's part of the learning curve.
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Wouldn't that be nice??? Sherri offered it for a time, when she had a nursery. Now, NO ONE offers it. NO WHERE. And that's a shame. This is one of the roses I'm going to talk about later in the month, in a talk to the Santa Barbara Rose Society -- Because of the Bidwell connection, this rose has a strong tie to a pivotal point in California's history -- and as a history buff, that grabs me. Also, it's a very INTERESTING rose. One of the few "purple-toned" roses that doesn't go chlorotic in my alkaline conditions. That, alone, makes it valuable. DH noted the other day that FRPP suckers mildly -- so making new plants is easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy. But -- we'd still have to have somewhere to send them, y'knowwhaddimean?
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berndoodle
15 years ago
Rosefolly, plant OTN nice and deep, covering the crown completely, leaving canes to emerge from the soil rather than a single stem. It will sucker moderately, making a base about 12 to 15 inches around. That will give you a vigorous plant that will eventually shoot up strong 5 foot basals. If you look at the Vintage Garden HP growth habit chart, initially it grows like #2, with new growth immediately beneath each bloom. Don't deadhead with pruners: snap off spent bloom or leave it to form hips late in the season.

This rose doesn't mind pruning at all. If the canes are left long, they arch out like #4 and bloom on laterals somewhat moderately but mostly toward the ends of the canes. I prune off all wood smaller than my little finger, removing virtually all laterals and shortening all canes to stiff, self-supporting wood. As a result, it is rather upright and leafed out top to bottom. If you over-fertilize, it will produce very large clusters. I've seen clusters with 18 blooms - - not a good thing considering they are held on the cane by short little peduncles, crowding one another - - but 5 or more are common. Disbudding helps.

I have a lousy picture just as the plant is beginning to leaf out, but at least it shows the new growth starting on the outline of pruned canes. For scale, the center canes are 5 feet tall. I'm not sure if you can keep it this compact in a warmer climate, where it wants to grow like an octopus. Octopi canes sunburn up here, so I don't allow it.

I'll shoot the plant fully leafed out this weekend. It is now clothed top to bottom. The bi-level effect you see here has been softened to an acceptable shape. It does hide some blooms within the leaf canopy, which is a wonderful thing in hot weather.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:247964}}

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