Actually the willow-leaved sunflower blooms pretty late, if I recall correctly. There is actually a landscape design principle to be mentioned here. It is basically the key difference between landscape design and interior design, which is that in landscape design, the items you work with are not designed products whose attributes can be controlled (fabrics, art, furniture, rugs, paint, accessories, etc) but rather naturally-evolved life forms that are what they are, no more, no less. Kind of like you can't design a zoo saying I'd like some polar bears in small or some skunks in green and yellow. Human intervention can give us odorless skunks, miniature poodles, and various designer plants like purple roses and so on. But with plants, still, you can only do so much, and so when you start with a vision and then fill in the plants, it can happen that the plants you "design" in your mind don't actually exist. Now, because plants come in an already almost infinite variety, it is actually good design technique to design with just size and approximate shape of plant in mind and then fill in the actual plant name later. But you can really only do this when you more or less know what plants really exist and are hardy in your zone, and when you stick to fairly general terms. When it comes to determining more exact attributes, like colour and bloom time, it might create the kind of frustration the OP is currently experiencing to set your heart too much on certain details. KarinL

Yellow loosestrife, Lysimachia punctata FataMorgana

I think ottawavalleygardener got it, looks like a Rudbeckia laciniata...thanks all for the help. I have some pics of it, but the site rejects them saying they are larger than 60 kilobytes and I don't know how to change the size, can anyone walk me thru that? I have some other plants I'd like help with. I like this forum, interesting and you can learn a lot from all you great people!

Chemocurl, I've traded seeds with you before and I know you have had tons of experience with plants.Woundn't you agree with me that the cone flower on the rudbekia is nothing at all like the marigold type flower you have? If anybody else has had experience with this plant it would be you. I know you have tried growing everything that can grow.My cultivar had the same marigold flower. I know the leaves look more like a geranium or Angelica,but it is a helianthus multifloris.