Francis Dubreuil: Prima Donna?

User

16 years ago

In my experience, yes.......a weak grower, demands the best of culture and still rarely performs all that well. Mine has been runty for years and dies back badly in spite of our relatively mild winters. MUST be sprayed to remain healthy. I file it under "collectors items".

Regards,
Paul

trepadora

16 years ago

Grow slow and has to be sprayed in Florida (at least once a month).
But the color is to die for.
I put my in a big pot, so I do not have to lie on the ground to enjoy the flowers (weak neck).
She smells very good and rebloom is good.
I like her very much.

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caroleintegacay

16 years ago

I love mine! I also keep mine in a pot....I spray occasionally but the rebloom is good and the fragrance is DIVINE! Not an overly big rose...he seems very happy in that pot.

Carole

andreageorgia

16 years ago

Mine wasn't a prima donna - he performed very well and looked great (I had him while I lived in the States, and I'll probably get one here in the UK too). He wasn't an extremely vigorous grower, but certainly not a weakling either. While he didn't require any particular effort other than regular feeding and spraying that my other roses also received, it's true what the others here say about his very noticeable lack of disease resistance - the plant is extremely prone to BS, especially in the humid Southeast. No (regular) spray = no leaves. I think he's a good candidate for a pot on a dry and sunny deck where he'll be less prone to disease. Love the flowers and the smoky damask scent.

Andrea

solicitr
Original Author

16 years ago

Would I then be better off with Wm Shakespeare 2000? (also BS-prone, I know, but seems to be vigorous). Or some other fragrant RED of medium size and OGR form?

User

16 years ago

For me, 'William Shakespeare 2000' is highly Blackspot resistant, and I have a severe problem with disease in my climate. YMMV, as always.

Paul

andreageorgia

16 years ago

These are quite different looking plants, I think. Frankie is much more lax and his flower shape much more modern and less petaled than William's, although he's still very beautiful. In my garden, William has been much more disease resistant than Frankie, there's really no comparison whatsoever. William never needed much spray. I'd pick him over Frankie since the shape of his large flowers is just absolutely amazing (see pics in current thread on Othello v. Wenlock) and his performance outstanding without requiring much effort of any kind on my part. I also grow him here in the UK. So I'd say William Shakespeare 2000 is a must, whether you also get Frankie or not. Also, before I forget, my tip to put Frankie in a pot on a sunny deck must be taken with some caution because his dark flowers can burn when it gets too hot, so some afternoon shade is a good thing for him. William doesn't need this precaution.

Andrea

olga_6b

16 years ago

In zone 6b/7a, MD close to VA border WS 2000 and FD have similar resistance in my experience. By similar resistance in this case I mean that they both have to be sprayed to keep leaves :(. Very different roses, color, bloom shape, bush shape, all is very different. My FD is not weak but flowers burn badly. I have it in full sun location, probably flowers would benefit from less sun.
FD is 4x4 for me. WS2000 is 6x6 with pruning, can be much bigger.
Olga

jerijen

16 years ago

To really understand what you are dealing with, try not to think of the so-called Francis Dubreuil as a Tea Rose.

It's actually in all likelihood a 1930's-era HYBRID TEA, with the plusses and minuses of its era and type.
Name: 'Barcelona.'

It'd probably do much better as a budded plant.

Jeri

hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

16 years ago

I lucked out when I got my clone--it's been very vigorous and healthy. Here it is this morning, just starting on the spring flush. It gets to the top of the 6' wall by summer.
Our coldest morning this winter was 43F, so undoubtedly the mild winters help.
{{gwi:245853}}

User

16 years ago

Jeri has pointed out something very important: the 'Francis Dubreuil' of commerce is probably 'Barcelona', and therefore not a Tea at all. I have grown both and see no difference between the two. If it is in fact 'Barcelona' then its is a HT bred during a time when all HT's were budded, not grown own root. The odds are that 'Francis Dubreuil' is a much better performer on a strong rootstock.

Now, if you want a really strong growing older deep red HT that is compact, disease free, bushy and constantly in bloom, look for the obscure 'Roundelay', one of 'Floradora's offspring. For me, this is a nearly perfect medium sized HT/shrub rose. I think Vintage offers it.

Paul

jerijen

16 years ago

Oh yeah! 'Roundelay' WOW!
There's a found Roundelay in the Sacramento City Cemetery that I just fell hard for.
It was clear from the git-go that it's an HT, but one of the prettiest-HT plants I've run across.

Yeah -- That's head and shoulders a nicer rose than poor ol' 'Barcelona.'
Pore' ol' "Francis/Barcelona." He never got taller than about 2 ft, on his BEST day, here at the coast.

Jeri

carolfm

16 years ago

I think it must just depend on your particular micro climate or your particular garden. Hoov is growing it successfully in California, I have a beautiful, healthy plant in South Carolina, Olga's wasn't runty in MD, so maybe it just likes certain areas better than others. Mine is own root and I had to plant him in the garden this year because we had repotted him time and again and he kept outgrowing his pots. It may depend on the clone you have as well. On the other hand, I had a WS 2000 own root plant that defoliated constantly and never grew because I couldn't keep him healthy. I finally dug him up and planted a budded WS2000 this year to see if it would do any better. I think maybe it is location, location, location.

Carol

steelrose

16 years ago

Yep, location, and maybe clone.

My FD/Barcelona does fine on its own roots despite no special treatment at all. In fact I've rudely moved it twice. I'm very fond of it.

Colleen

Francis Dubreuil: Prima Donna?

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