Compost can be made in 14 days, but it takes a lot of work. Particle size is important, relatively small, the C:N ratio is also important and needs to be very close to the optimal 30:1, moisture is very important and needs to be just enough and not too much, and then you need to turn the material just after (or close to that) the peak temperature has been reached and remix so the bacteria have newer material to work on. The size of the pile, 4 x 4 x 4, is also important and that size is what gives the bacteria the volume they need to work most efficiently.
This link may provide more information that could be usefull.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fast composting

Interesting. Given a good source of C and N with no limit on time or effort what would one do?

Okay. If I couldn't use my tumbler, I'd go with a 12 foot length of wire mesh to make a circular bin. As one is going to be restacking often, this to me is the easiest to use. I'd get a compost thermometer and a good fork, both will come in real handy.

All material shredded, smaller pieces compost faster. Mix together well, shooting for that optimum 30:1 ratio, don't layer. Mist with water as the bin is filled but don't overwater. Protect from drying wind without restricting air flow too much.

Watch the temperature. It should oughta climb pretty quick up into the 140-150 range in a day. Be prepared to add more material in a day or two but don't add anymore C materials after about the fifth day or so. Once the temp begins to fall back into the 130 range, pull the wire off, remix and restack adding moisture if necessary. Adding a bit of fresh cut grass is an option on the first or second restack but don't go crazy with it.

Remix and restack every third day or so (watch the moisture). Temperatures should peak back up after a restack but shouldn't stay up too long with each peak being somewhat lower than than others. Eventually the temperature will begin a long gradual descent. One can just stir the compost a bit versus a complete restack towards the latter half of the process if one wanted to.

If the feedstock didn't contain any manures or problematic materials, I would be comfortable using it in a garden (and I would till it in) when the temperature got below 110 or so. In the tumbler this would take anywheres from 14 to 25 days, this method would take longer but I suspect not a great deal longer.

Lloyd

Assuming that you have a good C:N ration, the three things I would do to get fast compost is keep it mixed, keep it aerated, and keep it moist.

I would probably make a pile that is easy to turn, and keep turning it - every day, maybe even twice a day.

I would make sure that it gets lots of air...I've seen people stick perforated pipes into the center of the pile. I'd probably use a couple of those and direct some air flow into them (with a fan).

Considering that I'm adding air, I'd probably have to add moisture too, depending upon how it felt...during a turning.

The answer is oil. Shred, chip, mow over the materials with a machine. Turn frequently with a rototiller or power auger. There's still oil around, and no laws restricting pollution from the use of these machines at home, so make as much fast compost as you can, while you still can. We all should.
:)

I've experimented with 'boosters' I found in the kitchen & pantry. The best is stale beer. One year I dumped nearly a case into a 5 gal. bucket, mixed some old molasses in it & dumped it on one of the piles I made that fall. I've done the same since using just the old beer. Wow does it ever cook! I only turn once a month & don't start till it warms up in March so it still takes till fall or late summer but I compost ~300 bags of stolen leaves without any greens. I might add some left over fish meal if it's around. I leave the beer open to the air overnight to let the alcohol evaporate since I'm looking to boost microbe activity.

On further thought, if I needed compost right away, like tomorrow, I probably would go buy it.

"stale beer"??? I never knew such a thing existed! How the heck can beer go stale? A whole CASE? Please tell me it ain't so.

Lloyd

:-)

Oil?

I believe by oil they mean fuel for power equipment.

stale beer? Isn't that an oxymoron? Or was that my wife calling me a moron?

In my half century plus, I never thought I would ever see the words stale and beer used in the same sentence. I'm so terribly dissapointed.

Back on topic, turn your pile a couple three times a week, you'll have some decent stuff to use in about a month. BTW, you don't need a bin. You can just pile the stuff up somewhere.

Thanks for all the great info so fast. I have just two quick questions.
What is the difference between remixing and restacking?
And why is it that there seem to be so many different ratio guides?
Most people here seem to agree that 30 to 1 is correct but I have seen several other sites that say half and half?

Hey Lloyd...... my beer don't have enough time to get aquainted with a decent hugger!!!Let alone get stale!!!...

Question...I noticed my pile likes to be turned and air introduced into the deep body cranked it up from cold to hand burning in less than 48 hours!!!...

I just laid a nice layer of wintergrass clippings in under the top six inches of shredded hard wood leaves.When do I turn again??? I dont want the clippings to not get enough exposure to the goodies to get them started on my browns and in the process or does it really matter as all will be turned in a matter of time....pile is 4x3x4 ........Thx.......R

Hey, wait a minute, that's three questions! Well sort of three questions, there are three question marks but the last one isn't actually a question is it?

Remix and restack...mostly a figment of my delusional mind. I suppose I meant if you add additional stuff, mix that stuff in as you restack it, incorporate it, so to speak.

Different ratio guides...well that's a whole different can of worms. I think most say 30:1 is optimum but I don't think there is a "correct" ratio. Different ratios will compost, just at different speeds, so quite often a range is shown. Never really understood it myself, I just go by gut feeling. If I put 2 large bags of grass clippings into the tumbler, it gets really hot, really fast and there is a bit of odor. When this happens I just add more leaves once it settles in a day or two. If I us two smaller bags, it seems to work a bit better and I can add a grass/leaf mixture to top it up once it has settled.

The type of ingredients (strong carbon like sawdust) can make a difference but that gets into the technical stuff.

I hope this has sufficiently muddied the water for you. Keep your stick on the ice. (Canadian expression)

Lloyd

Hi Ruvin...first let me tell you how much I hate it when you guys talk about actually physically composting in February, it really isn't fair and I hate you all.

But for a fellow beer imbiber I can take a couple of anti-depressants and get on with it. If I was adding it to an already assembled pile, I wouldn't panic about the turn. It will all get mixed in whenever I turn it next (or not). I do know that if it twas I, it would be turned in a day or so (no reason, just because).

Heat is fun isn't it? I don't know why it's so dang enjoyable but I likes heat!

Lloyd

I think I am finally zeroing in on how to proceed. Two new questions:
1. What is the advantage/disadvantage of using a bin?
2. If I have grass clippings from the winter, meaning the clippings were already brown and dead when they were collected, does this count as carbon or nitrogen?
It seems that dead grass is counted as carbon but if that is the case where did the nitrogen go?

I'm not sure I'll explain this right, but I think the different ratios refer to different things: volume versus weight for example. In practice it's more like Lloyd said, you get a feel for it, go by smell or dryness or what have you. If I had to guess I'd say 2 or 3:1 is weight, since greens tend to be heavier, maybe that's just moisture though.

The bin is just a way to keep a pile tidy, probably want that frame if you'll cover it to regulate moisture. I use 3 scrap pallets with chicken wire inside the U shaped contraption.

A guess on that dried grass, the N evaporated and/or washed into the ground below.

The 30:1 is Carbon to Nitrogen and the 2:1 or 1:1 is "greens" to "browns".

Greens are materials that have relatively more Nitrogen. That's relative to the 30:1 ratio, so used coffee grounds at 20:1 are considered a green. Chicken manure has a much lower C:N ratio and is considered a "strong" green.

Browns are higher in carbon than 30:1, so something like sawdust (I think it's 100:1) is a strong brown. Depending on what you use, you may need more greens or more browns.

Some people actually weigh the materials they put in, find the C:N ration in a chart and determine the best mix to get as close as they can to the 30:1 optimum.

I take a more laissez-faire approach (or maybe it's a more fairly lazy approach). I start with about the same amount of browns and greens. If it starts to stink, I add more browns. I don't have any trouble with getting too much water, but if you do, I think that can cause it to start to stink. The solution is still to add more browns because browns tend to be dry. If it doesn't heat up, I add more greens and/or more water or I mix it up.

I've gotten compost in about 3 weeks during the summer when I was able to actively work on it, but I've never managed to get finished compost in 2 weeks. I usually wait until it cools off to ambient temperature and stays there for a couple of days before I use it. I usually let the last batch just sit and passively compost over winter. By spring, it's pretty well composted and I use what's there and start a new batch.

The 30 parts Carbon to 1 part Nitrogen, 30:1, is the ratio of Carbon to Nitrogen and is standard. However there are lots of people out there that never quite grasp what that means so they confuse mixing 3 parts of vegetative waste to 1 part of a high Nitrogen source, the 3 to 1 ratio. That 3:1 ratio comes directly from Sir Albert Howards original writtings that you pile up 6 inches of vegetative waste and cover that with 2 inches of manure, 6:2 = 3:1. Once again there are lots of people that have no idea where that comes from or even why, but that is the mixture of material that is optimal for the bacteria to digest.
The only reason for a bin is to keep your compost neatly contained. A bin does nothing to help the bacteria do their job, although some types of containers (composters) are known to so restrict air flow that they actually hinder the aerobic bacteria in doing their job.
Nitrogen is fairly volatile and in grasses can simply gas off to the atmosphere, just as it does in manures. That odor that emits from a pile of grass clippings is nutrients escaping to the atmosphere, being wasted.

Ratio: What Bp said.

Bins, depends on the type:

Advantages: containment, critter factor, visible appeal (spouse factor), preservation of moisture, shedding moisture, smaller ground footprint, etc etc.

Disadvantages: cost, visibly unappealing, preservation of moisture, shedding moisture, PITA factor, access to contents can be limited, etc etc.

You will notice some factors are in both categories, depends on your own situation (space, yard, neighbors, pets, climate, marital situation, types of feedstock etc.) so it could be either an advantage or disadvantage.

Composting is not a one size fits all kind of thing, each of us wackos enthusiasts have our own eccentricities that we develop over time based on our individual situations. Sorta like an old sweater, looks like crap but it's comfortable and we like it. Come to think of it, DW sorta describes me like that, looks like crap but comfortable.

Anybody that tells ya there is only one correct procedure when it comes to compost, is delusional. It's really difficult to screw up compost, not to say it can't be done, but it's difficult.

Lloyd

draven: Is this your maiden voyage into composting, or have you been at it for a while? If you are just starting I would caution you against expecting too much, too soon. We try to rush the process with our intervention in turning, adding moisture, etc., but it is a natural process which can only be hurried to a certain degree. It will work, you will get compost. Just don't expect compost every couple of weeks. It can take time to get the "feel" of the perfect mix, the perfect moisture, the perfect time to turn...

Karen

Lloyd ----do you use a compost thermometer ?
JB

I sure do JB, that is mine in the picture I linked to. One of the most frequently used toys tools I have.

Lloyd

I just read about a new wrinkle on composting in a post below. It describes cultivating lactobacillus and applying that to the compost pile. It speeds up composting. I'll have to try that first chance I get.

Good Lord Lloyd---I finally went to your page and opened the pics ----the first ones scared me ----looks like you live on the freakin Tundra !!!!!

More pics however show a beautiful working farm.

When I run away can I come up and stay a while ---I work real hard and pretty cheap ---12 pack or so------

Enjoyed the vacation-----JB

A bin is a good idea. The optimum volume for getting hot compost is at least a cubic yard. A bin makes that easier to create, rather than have the material sprawled on the ground.

A pallet bin composter can be made for very little. Our pallets were mostly free for the asking (one charged us a dollar each) from hardware stores in our area. Some reebar to reinforce the corners, some tough twine to tie onto the reebar to reinforce the corners and anchor the bins to the ground. The ones pictured here were 2 years old in 2005 and are still going strong. It helps to oil them every couple of years with linseed oil/pine tar/turpentine mix.

About gasoline/oil, whenever I read about 'fast compost' I think, here's another person with good intentions who's going to defeat the purpose of composting - helping save the environment, minimizing waste, turning 'waste' into something productive - by bringing on the heavy artillery, ie powering up some high-pollutin' machine to shred the ingredients. I fear this practice turns composters into net energy consumers.

{{gwi:262752}}

"I fear this practice turns composters into net energy consumers."

Well then you'd be scared silly of me then, I use hundreds of liters of fuel per year whilst composting.

Lloyd

Oh, Lloyd, you are incorrigible. Anything to stir the pot.

Lloyd claims to be a farmer. I think that in reality he is just an eccentric wealthy landowner, with hired help to run the farm while he plays with his compost and builds big tumblers and sifters to keep him amused.

Karen

Oh, yah, right, sorry!

Incorrigible - check (I had to look it up, depraved indeed)
Eccentric - check
landowner - check
plays with compost - check
amused - check
Wealthy - not so much :-(

And we call ourselves "producers" now versus farmers. Heck I have a Canadian Wheat Board producer number and everything.

JB - I have a 20 foot camper trailer just sitting in the yard, let me know when and I'll pick up a couple of cases. Some days it feel like the freakin Tundra, hence all my sniveling.

Lloyd

Hundreds of litres! Believe me, I'm shaking in my boots.

I aim for equal amounts 'browns' (generally coarse, dry, lightweight carbons) to 'greens' (wet or slimy, heavy nitrogen) by weight, not volume, layering as thinly as I have patience for. A damp but airy pile heats up well.

Lots of red wigglers and/or fruit beetle larvae will chew through a pile pretty quickly without heat.

The picture shows a triple-bin pallet composter by the way. While filling the bin I temporarily nail some slabwood across the front to keep stuff from falling out. The two dividers are made by cutting a pallet in half. And I meant they were two years old in 2001 - that makes them 10 years old. How do you celebrate a compost bin birthday? I bet Colorado Dave has some ideas.

Hmmm...I think the wire mesh will work best for me since I plan on moving it around quite a bit and it will allow me greater flexibility with where I can put it.
How do all of you measure the weight? Do you just do it by feel or are scales involved?

I use a bin that I bought from a link on Vcompost.com and it is amazingly fast. It seams like I get fresh vermicompost every season and the compost tea is amazing, I bought it from a link off Vcompost.com too. My bonsai plants have doubled.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vcompost

Well then you'd be scared silly of me then, I use hundreds of liters of fuel per year whilst composting.

Would this fuel by any chance be made from barley and come in a can/bottle? :-)

Val

Lloyd ---thx for the invite...will keep it in mind just in case it starts to close in on me down here ----

Val --- I'm sure L has the correct fuel of choice ---

In the mean time---
"laissez les bon temps roulet"---let the good times roll--

JB

Just in case no one has pointed this fact out already - FAST does not equate with QUALITY.

Composting (decomposition), by its very nature, is a slow process and rushing it can lead to a very real decline in quality and an increase in associated problems (not to mention work). ;)

Sure, there are things that can be done to speed it up like dicing or liquifying the components but when speed becomes your only focus you do sacrifice quality.

Dave

"when speed becomes your only focus you do sacrifice quality"

Dave, is this true all the time? Does fast have to mean lower quality? Are there any links I could read?

Lloyd

Would this fuel by any chance be made from barley and come in a can/bottle? :-)

That must be it. From now on I'll take Lloyd's comments with a hair of the dog. I mean, a pinch of salt.

We use a ring of fence wire as a stationary leaf-and-liquid-gold bin, but it would make a good moveable bin.

I agree it's possible to make compost badly by being in a hurry. (stop me if you've heard this story before :) I thought it would be clever to make a pile mainly of super-high C:N ratio sawdust (about 300:1) layered with lots of crushed crab waste (about 5:1). This got very hot and gave off clouds of ammonia and other stenches for miles around, p*ssing off the neighbours. The crab waste cooked away leaving sawdust, which had to be put through another composting cycle to make good compost. Also, this pile reduced far more in volume than other piles.

I believe a hot fast pile reduces more than a slower, cooler pile would, which defeats some of the purpose of composting, i.e. to make as much compost as possible.

Re: the 50% brown/green ratio by weight, not volume, I do it by feel. You develop a kind of compost-empathy. The seventh sense!

I swear I haven't had a drink today. (yet)

"a hot fast pile reduces more than a slower, cooler pile would, which defeats some of the purpose of composting, i.e. to make as much compost as possible. "

If by cool method, I make two batches a year yet by hot composting I make four, isn't that a 100 percent increase in production? i.e. making as much compost as possible.

I must be missing something, maybe I should have a few wobbly pops! :-)

Lloyd

P.S. Not that I'm saying fast composting is everybodies purpose of composting, I do not concede that point. It was just the example given.

Today is the end of my work week and I intend to go home and have a coupla cold ones ----forget about the economy and wizz on my pile ---Ya'll have a good weekend ---JB

Several years ago a woman named Dr. Virginia Cuevas was reporting finished compost in an 11 day cycle when the fresh leaves were inoculated with Trichoderma harzanium and there was a constant supply of air pumped through the compost pile. She was working out of the University of Manila in the Philippines. The purpose of her project was to develop a way to make fast compost in apartment building complexes. She was due to present her methods in the US at a compost conference but after that she disappeared. I fear she did not do well in the peer review of her methods and results.

Drayven asks:

"What is the fastest way to compost?"

Learn as much about the process as you can, then use that knowledge to your advantage. If one knows how "compost happens", one can make it happen at the most productive rate.

"How can I achieve the 5 week turnaround time?"

See above

"What is the difference between remixing and restacking?"

None, the key to the question is the "re". All one is doing is making the pile again using the same material.

"And why is it that there seem to be so many different ratio guides?"

Because there are so many different things (ingredients) that can be composted. And too, the combination of these materials combined will give a different "ratio" unless the same materials are used each time.

"What is the advantage/disadvantage of using a bin?"

Neatness and control of the pile.

"If I have grass clippings from the winter, meaning the clippings were already brown and dead when they were collected, does this count as carbon or nitrogen?"

They are still a "green", just to a lesser degree due to loss of nitrogen.

"How do all of you measure the weight? Do you just do it by feel or are scales involved?"

By feel (eyeball). I have never heard of anyone weighing his or her materials (but it could happen).

There are three phases organic matter goes through to becoming compost.

a.) Heating
b.) Cooling
c.) Maturing/Aging

Heat is caused by bacteria working. To get more heat, get more bacteria working. Cooling is the domain of fungi. To compost faster during this phase get more fungi working. There is nothing one can do to mature faster, only time. This is the only phase nothing can be done, save "wait".

There are many good techniques offered in this thread. One should keep in mind that these techniques work for the person and environment composting is taking place. There was no one question that was asked to acquire the shared technique; the member had to put in their time to know what they know. IMO, the best suggestion offered in this thread to get fast compost is: "On further thought, if I needed compost right away, like tomorrow, I probably would go buy It." Other than that, one is going to have to do ones timeÂ

Blutranes

Amen to what blutranes just said. :6)

Dave

I used bags of dried spring grass (thatchy stuff guys scraped off their lawns in the spring) as an N (green), didn't do a thing even after doubling the amount I usually use. I had to wait for the fresh clippings to come out before I got any heat. Therefore I consider it to be a C (brown).

And just to clarify my use of "remix", if more material is added, mix it in well with what is already there, don't just layer it on top. I don't normally deal with this issue because I generally use the multi-tumblers for speedy composting and tumbling mixes it all up, every time.

Good luck with your composting.

Lloyd

What do you guys put on top of your pile? Do you leave it uncovered? I have heard carpet helps keep rain out and the heat in.

If you browse through all the pictures of piles and bins posted throughout the forum here you'll find that most don't cover them. It can cause more problems than it is worth IMO.

As for me, no covers of any kinds on any of my various piles and bins since adequate air is just as important to the process as is content balance and moisture.

Dave

PS: If you search 'cover compost' you'll find several previous discussions on the pros and cons if you want to read through them.

My thoughts on covering it are that you want to get as much air into the pile as you can. One of the reasons to turn it is to get more air into it. Covering it also prevents the rain from getting into it to help decompose. The heat will stop when the heat loving microbes run out of food. There is no reason to heat up a pile if the microbes are finished with it.

im covering my tumbler now, just to keep heat in and get the solar benefit, but one side is open and there is a ventilation pipe in the tumbler.

ron

I've found that shooting for a certain number of days or weeks just leads to disappointment.

The quickest I've read that compost can be made is three days in lab conditions. Maybe just a tiny amount like a test tube, not sure.

The quickest advertised way is often folks selling a tumbler saying compost in 14 days, or some such.

After five years, I like mesh bins. The tumbler heat went up to 160F, but it looked nothing like finished compost in two or three weeks. The mesh bins are bigger, way cheaper, easier to turn, easier to assemble.

Many feel that compost should set for a month after all the heat has gone. I think its probably a good idea.

There are a number of variables even using the same bin. Ingredients, size of pieces, air and moisture, how often you check it, your climate, season of year, etc. I find my mesh bins average finished compost in three or four months in the warmer months. I check the core temp most days.