From that first photo, I do actually see some shorter petals tucked in just above the lower big petals. Maybe that photo from them is decieving because it is not a side view? How long has it been since you contacted them?

I contacted them last summer. I know a professional grower who contacted them as well. He had 200 plugs. When his started blooming he noticed the problem. He couldn't sell most of them. He waited until he saw a bloom that looked correct before selling them.

I have seen many people with the double decker type blooms instead of the correct bloom form. The plant doesn't reproduce true to the original. This means this plant should not have been released. Had Terra Nova done their job, they would have known about this before hand. However, they know now and still haven't done anything to solve the problem.

Do you think it might be different growing conditions or immaturity of the plants that cause them to look more like Double Decker, maybe it's like DD, takes a year or two to settle in before coming into it's own.

Annette

I have this plant and it looks exactly like the picture. It was a larger plant to begin with so that may have made a difference. I do not think you can judge these plants after one season. They are perennials and like most others will probably need three years to really see what their mature performance will be in your garden. Every location in the garden is different and specially with plugs or liners I think more time is needed to see how a perennial will do. Just my opinion but since some of these plants are doing well, to say they all are bad after only one season of growth seems a little premature to me.

They all aren't bad. I never said that. 25% look like they should. If you buy one of these with blooms on it already, you shouldn't have a problem.

I have one that looked like the picture out of 4.

I wouldn't order these by mail order but in person so you can make sure you get the correct blooms. The style of bloom has nothing to do with how old the plant is. I have one that looks like it should and 3 that don't. I'm keeping my other 3 because they look like Double Deckers and I like them at least a little bit.

If you read the patent application for this plant it clearly states that it "has not been evaluated under all possible environmental conditions. The phenotype may vary with variations in environment without a change in the genotype of the plant".

That pretty much spells out that variations in the form of the flowers may occur under different environmental and growing conditions.

I saw a bunch of these blooming in a nursery last year and only one was fully double like it is supposed to be. But even that one plant had some blooms that weren't right, so it might be a matter of maturity or weather and the plant will get better as it ages. For now though, I'd avoid it unless you see it blooming.

It's possible that the plant isn't stable as well. This could also explain why the blooms aren't correctly formed. If they had given this plant a proper trial they may have discovered the problem and waited.

I ordered two last year at 23 dollars each. One struggled and eventually did a scruffy version. Might grow into it's own this year. The other was a carbon copy of the picture Echin.. posted. Neither branched out but again this could change this year. At the price that was a ripoff. On contacting the nursery I was informed that mine was the first complaint. I guess it's buyer beware. By comparison Pink Double Delight was a joy. So were Meringue and Milkshake.

The plant I had been sent via mail order was strong and healthy, though had been damaged by a delay in transit and needed to have most all its new growth cut back ... though, 'Pink Poodle' had rebounded strongly and produced several blooms of which were rather good lookers, though not quite as perfect as the above first photo, but indeed good enough for me :)

Terry

Gee, echinacea(ech.), sometimes I feel like alot of GWers really miss the point.( And i don't mean those that share their own experiences w/the plant). But WHERE are the "Thank you"s? Gosh, it's not like you're some neophite w/ no experience.

So, THANK YOU Ech., for sharing your extensive and well described and corroborated experience and warning those unsuspecting potential buyers. I saw this plant in today's Garden Crossings eletter and my immediate reaction was "I remember, Ech. and other GWers complaining last year about all the Sunset/etc. echinacea (saving me good money), so I'm going to wait til Ech. speaks her experience on this one..." and here you are warning people of this likely new ech. problem.

Personally, i am one of the few gardeners in the world who CANNOT grow echs.I spent far too much money on them over the yrs. and drainage or no, i've decided that my PH, whatever it is, is not what they want. So i savor my one tiny clump of them and admire(and yes, covet) beautiful plantings of them.

Thanks so much for your continued vigilance and generous sharing of experience w/ these great plants.

best,
mindy

Thanks, Mindy.

This plant is a good plant if you can find one in bloom. You just need to find one with blooms on it so you can see it is the correct bloom form. The picture at the top of the page is my good one. I had 3 others that were the wrong kind of blooms like the 2nd picture shows.

It's all about sharing information. If I see a problem, it's good to share it with everyone here. I don't want someone to be disappointed like me. LOL.

Trust me, I appreciate your opinions too . . . as well as everyone else's. Different gardeners, in different areas, have different experiences and I really appreciate everyone who shares theirs! It is helpful to read.

I had loads of trouble with Harvest Moon and Sunset, and my Coconut Lime just faded away until it petered out and died so I am wary of the new flashy echinaceas. I bought "Vintage Wine" last year and really liked it. Flowers seemed fine and the colour was just what I was hoping for that spot. Encouraged, I have now ordered "Tiki Torch" for this summer, and would like to pick up another echinacea from a local nursery at some point if I see one in bloom that appeals to me :) I was thinking about Pink Poodle as a possibility, but may look at something else instead. I would definitely want to buy one already in bloom as the lack of stability bothers me.

I'm not sure about the successes of Coconut Lime although I'd love to have that one. The doubles never seem to come out right for me. I have not tried Pink Poodle and although the colour/flower looks quite pretty, I don't like to try them until I hear quite a few stable and good reviews. These flowers sell for over $20 here and most seem to die out over our winters . . . and I am loathe to spend that much on what ends up being a glorified annual that disappoints for most of the summer anyways.

Since everyone seems to be interested in this plant this year, I thought I'd remind you to check the blooms before buying these. Don't buy one without at least one bloom on it.

I also appreciate your input. I have your list of favorite echinaceas in my purse in case I run across any. I went to 4 nurseries in Waynesville, NC last weekend on a hunt.

I saw quite a few Ec's labeled Pink Poodle late last summer but didn't buy one because they all looked like Double Decker.
I bought a small plug this spring and took my chances because the owner of the nursery I was at said it would be what it's supposed to be. I've been growing it on in my greenhouse, this morning I noticed a very many petaled flower bud so it looks like I have a winner.

I think I read somewhere Double Decker is in the parentage of Pink Poodle, now if I could just remember where I read this :( Maybe some Pink Poodles are reverting?

I think a lot of these newer Echinaceas perform differently in different locations, but to be on the safe buy them when in bloom.

Ech, I always look forward to hearing what you think of these new varieties, maybe I shouldn't your not helping my addiction :).

Annette

that was my point...doesnt my pink poodle look like double delight or not?

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Pink Double Delight has all double blooms and is consistent. That is 'Pink Poodle' but it seems the blooms on that one are all different. It's strange how it's not stable.

Starjr, all the Pink Poodles (about a dozen plants) I saw last summer looked similar to your second picture, that's why I passed on it.

Annette

I received a PP plug from a nursery in Michigan last summer. Can't seem to remember the name, but i can't believe how well it grew.
Again emaniac, i musta got lucky cause mine looks just like the first pic.
Also, why and how did you delete my previous response?
You sure do have alot of problems with your echs. If i were you i would of quit buying them a long time ago. LOL!
gardengals earlier quote sums it up with
"has not been evaluated under all possible environmental conditions. The phenotype may vary with variations in environment without a change in the genotype of the plant"

I didn't delete anything.

As might be expected from my username, I bought 6 Pink Poodle Echinacea as soon as I possibly could last spring. They were mail order so I never saw blooms prior to receiving. There weren't many blooms last year and the plants were late to show this year, so I thought I had lost them. However, they are now in heavy bloom and I am thrilled with them. They are all the large dahlia-type flowers, on sturdy stems that don't require staking. I am having to water them when the temps are above 90 degrees or else the petals look a little withered, although they perk back up overnight without additional water (the plants are in full sun, obviously). I didn't realize that I had interplanted them with orange/yellow and plain yellow gaillardia, and I imagine that sounds rather awful, but it is actually quite striking and draws many compliments. I'm sorry others have had such a rough time with these plants, but I do love them.

It's not that bad. The ones that are wrong look like Double Decker blooms and I kept them anyways.

I work in a greenhouse and we planted 30 plugs. Every one bloomed true to form. Maybe it has something to do with growing conditions.

Maybe they like the greenhouse too much.

Chime in on the side of the D/Decker. Bought two plants P/Poodle last year at a hefty price, got one of each. Slow start this year, just starting to bloom. Quoting growing conditions as a reason is contraindicated.

I agree. It can't be growing conditions. All of the ones I planted are in the same flower bed and all have the same conditions. It's just not stable.

"Pink Double Delight" looks good in every zone and under various conditions. That is not a good excuse for these problems.

Also: All plant patents have that part about the genotype and conditions, etc. It's not that the put that in just for this plant. So that's not a valid excuse either. If they knew the plant wouldn't look good in certain zones, etc. then they shouldn't have sold it to those areas.

I found it, I knew I had read something about Pink Poodle and Doubledecker. Apparently 'Pink Poodle' was found as a seedling out of a sowing of Echinacea purpurea 'Doubledecker'. This might be an explanation why some of the 'Pink Poodles' look more like 'Doubledecker'.

Annette

Here is a link that might be useful: Pink Poodle

I think what's happening is the plant isn't reproducing true to form when they propagate it. To solve the problem they'd have to let them flower so they could make sure they have the correct plants.

I think it is very interesting how people can get wildy different results with these new echinaceas. For example, ciza had problems with Coconut Lime and mine formed large clumps and bloom profusely. However, I have had similar disapointment with Harvest Moon and Sunset. I remember reading somewhere that Dan Heims of Terra Nova highly recommended cutting off the first year blooms of these new echices. I did that with Tomato Soup and am impressed with this year's performance. The color is spectacular.