Sedum, Phlox, Sedum, and Echinacea will be a draw to deer, especially the phlox. Delphiniums I'm not sure about. Other deer resistant plants include Pardancanda, Belamcanda, Malvas, Irises of all types, Nepetas, Penstemons, Peonies, Perovskia, Calamintha, grasses, Euphorbias (usually), Digitalis, Monkshood, Solidagos, Agastache, Coreopsis, Gaillardia.

From a design perspective, it looks like your garden will be viewed from a distance. Using large masses (5-7 plants) of each plant will have a lot more impact than one or two. You can buy a few and plan on dividing to increase the number after a year or two to save on the cost.

Think about the form (spiky, mounded, low, airy) and texture (fine or coarse foliage) and choose a variety to avoid monotony.

Just a thought, but your garden appears to be a straight line in what is otherwise an informal setting. Would some curves in the bed be more pleasing?

What about a milkweed (Asclepias)? Their sap is distasteful for deer and the butterflys love them (and need them). They are generally carefree. Your soil type would determine which species/variety. There are milkweeds for dry soil, clay, swamps .... I've read that butterflys do best with a species plant than with a hybrid.

I think the biggest mistake people make with borders like this (large, that is, even though you don't say how large "large" is...) is to use plants that are too small for the majority of the planting. Big planting areas need some big plants -- smaller ornamental trees, large and small shrubs, and large scale perennials. And the border will have more drama and impact with larger plants. Helianthus 'Lemon Queen' is definiely in this category, so is Joe Pye. Delphiniums are tall but really lack mass, especially if you cut them back after blooming. There are many other good candidates -- grasses, persicaria polymorpha, monardas, larger asters and boltonias, masses of phlox.

You don't say how the border is shaped, but if it is an island, I would avoid putting all the tall plants in the back. This is even true of a more or less linear border. Plantings with all the short plants at the front and the larger ones at the back often look very static.

hmm, looks like I have to seriously rethink this. Laceyvail I knew the phlox and rudbeckia would be a problem with the deer but thought the echinacea would be OK. Last year they ate my rudbeckia to the ground but did seem to leave the sedum & echinacea.

Some good suggestions all, I will have to research and rethink.

David sorry I forgot to mention how large! approximately 35 deep by 25 wide, with a 35 x 35 foot veggies bed, then on the right another 35 deep x 25 wide "square". Just to the left of all this is a hawthorn grove and the bed there curves out where I plan on putting in lilacs, mountain laurel, fothergilla, mahonia, some rhodos (yes I know, I'm going to try spraying them).

The area I'm planning now is a bit of a challenge because it is so large and open but I don't want any trees or taller shrubs as they will shade the vegetable garden. Again, perhaps I need to rethink a 100% perennial bed (I never seem to get these to where I am happy with them). ALL my other beds are mixed shrubs / perennial and I am quite pleased with the results so far I was just hoping to do something different here.

Ok, armed with some great advice (I love this forum!) I am going to rethink and do a lot more research on the net again. Thanks all, I'm sure I'll post my second try for some much needed advice again!

Sharon

Sharon, where is your veggie bed located in regard to the area you want to plant? If the veggie bed is to the north, you would need a huge tree to cause a shade problem for the veggies since in summer the sun is high in the sky and throws short shadows. Only east or west shrubs would shade the veggies, and then only for a brief time in morning and evening, unless they too are quite large and right up close to the veggies.

I have a Magnolia stellata 'Centennial' (now about 12 feet tall) about8 feet to the east of my veggie garden, and the shadow that is thrown is so early in a summer morning, that it just isn't important.

And I definitely agree with David5311 about using large perennials, which can act as shrubs to form more intimate enclosures in a large bed. Along with those he mentions, I would add Coreopsis tripteris, a very handsome large native.

Make the bones of the new bed very large perennials so you can appreciate it from your patio, and fill in perhaps with smaller plants in mass.

laceyvail, the beds would be to the east and west of the veggie garden. It is just a piece of the entire back property line that I am landscaping. In total it is about 375 feet wide. I've "divided" it up in my mind into 5 areas: The left "woodland" to be created, the hawthron "grove", the "beds" on each side of my veggie garden, the "veggie garden" and the "ravine" to the right.

Here is a rough drawing

{{gwi:198450}}

Here are a couple pictures:
LEFT
{{gwi:8457}}

GROVE
{{gwi:198451}}

MIDDLE VEGGIE & BEDS ABOVE

FAR RIGHT
{{gwi:198452}}

Perhaps I could fit to the extreme sides some smaller trees, I will have to go out & measure better. I'd like to fit some Witch Hazel & and Eastern Red Bud into the plan, perhaps these could give nice spring colour here & shape for rest of the year. Maybe add in some dogwood for winter interest but not too much height then rely on the larger perennials for colour. These beds are also what I look out at most of the winter. Back to the drawing board but I really appreciate all the advise. Gets my brain flowing in new directions. I find it is always hard for me to translate what I 'feel' I want for the area into reality so takes lots of preplanning for me -- does not come second nature.

Sharon

You could always try some roses. Many different shapes/sizes/colours. They can help add some variety in height but not be so tall as to shade the vegetables.

If you're not into spraying and high maitenance, try some antique (OGR) roses. Much less high maitenance, and the bushes/foliage is also a nice accent even when not in bloom as many of them are quite attractive bushes.

Very nice property. You've done a great job. I agree with david's comment that you need large plants for a large area. my first thought was the area just beyond your patio would be a fantastic spot for a pond and a waterfall. We just installed a pond with koi and ornamental fish last spring and it was the best thing we ever did. It's an extremely relaxing place that sits right off our patio and we planted all sorts of things around it. We've got a mixed bed that includes grasses, flowering shrubs, bulbs, perennials and annuals. They are situated strategically so they're not blocking our other gardens. It is absolutely gorgeous and you open up a whole new world of (water) gardening. I have to admit I was getting a little bored with perennials. Now I have a fun new hobby. You've certainly got the room for one.