Kyponder, You can't really tell from these pics but my pond is 3 tiered- the beach area is 0-10", 2nd levels- 18-20", and the center is 32". I have stone in the beach area with sand in between, and stone also on the next level in spots.I too have heard mostly negative about using rocks but the pond just wouldn't look the same without them. The pond is in its' third year and you do get muck that collects between the rock. The nice thing though, most of my plants are sending out roots into the muck and I think this will make them healthier plants. The grasses and parrots feather have taken root in the muck and are starting to spread. I've read that this 'muck' can create an anaerobic problem in the winter when the pond is iced over, but I do keep an opening in the ice with a 'Thermo-pond' deicer for gas exchange. I did lose all my bullfrogs last winter, but I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it, I don't know. The deepest part of my pond doesn't have any stone, that way, when necessary, I can clean the bottom with a 'ShopVac'. Most of your debris will 'migrate' towards the deepest part. I don't like using chemicals in the pond unless I absolutely have to, but this spring I did break down and bought a quart of a product called 'Microbe Lift/SA' (sludge away). It dissolved about half of the sludge that was in the pond and, as advertised, didn't harm any of the fish, goldfish and shubunkins. They recommended regular treatments with it but I was happy with what it had already done and let it go at that. I don't want to remove it all, because, like I said, my plant roots seem to enjoy it. I may use it every couple years to keep the stone in the pond showing. I think the main thing is to try and keep as much debris as possible out of the pond. Being in northern Illinois I have to net my pond towards the end of October, but it's still almost impossible to keep everything out. The pond is one of my best investments. The little maintenance that I have to do is well worth it. Many nights on the deck, after all the dogs have gone to bed, with the floods on the waterfall. Happy Ponding, Witz

Hi, Algae is frustrating isn't it? The stuff grows on the bottom of arctic ice and in 180 degree water coming out of hot springs. If you have a pond, algae happens. IMO battling algae with chemicals, uv rays, and (to some extent) mechanical filtration is a war you can't win in the long run. Once you stop the chemicals, or the uv filter, or the mechanical filter clogs up the battle is lost. My thoughts on reading your post are these: First, patience. Your pond is new and needs time to find balance. Right now bacteria is establishing itself on the liner, the rocks, and every surface it can. This beneficial bacteria will convert the biological waste through the nitrate cycle-but it needs time to establish. Once the algae has less to feed on, the bloom will subside. The purpose of the filter material in your waterfall filter and perhaps your skimmer is to give the bacteria more surface area to live on. 5,000 gallons going through a 22 inch waterfall filter probably means that the bacteria doesn't have time to convert the nitrates. Again, imo, I would divert half the water to an upflow biological filter and/or stream. 100 gallon per hour per inch of waterfall is plenty for a nice effect, that means yours needs about 2,200 gph. The rest of the water you could divert-gravel streams are beautiful and provide lots of surface area-stock tanks are ugly but do a great job if built as an upflow biological filter. Your equipment is fine. It's probably too late now to add a bottom drain and that is a pity. The ideal imo bottom drain and skimmer to settling tank, pump in tank to upflow biological filter, stream to waterfall, waterfall to veggie filter, weir to pond. Your fish load is probably fine right now too. 4 large koi in a 6500 gallon pond is not unreasonable. The baby's aren't contributing much to the bio-load of the pond right now. Find homes for most of them before they get much bigger. Oh, and don't over feed them. Algae happens. But thankfully so does balance. You can tip the scales in your favor by eliminating as much as the bio load as you can (skimmer for leaves-bottom drain for sinking mulm) increasing the surface area for aerobic bacteria, and keeping the bioload resonable for your pond size and filtration (mechanical, bio, and veggie. But mostly try to be patient. Depending on water and air temps, at about 3 weeks from new pond start up you will have a BAD algae bloom; at about 5 weeks you will notice the water getting a bit clearer, between weeks 6 and 8 you will notice it getting markedly better. Next year it will happen quicker as the bacteria establishs. Good Luck with your new pond! And patience! Here is a link that might be useful: Come Join Pond Chat!

robin, I've got a Savio skimmer. I've had the same problem with the frogs getting inside the skimmer and dying. It hurts when you've fed and got to know them all summer and then that happens at the end of their first year. I did similar to what jan and bradley did, putting a piece of heavy gauge aluminum screen in front of the skimmer opening. You have to be careful with this because if you have any leaves falling they will clog up that screened area much quicker than they would the skimmer basket. I also thought that by doing this just before the weather started to get cold that the frogs would figure out that the skimmer was going to be off-limits and they would head elsewhere. Next year I'm going to try something a little different. I made a small piece of screen that slides behind the handle opening of the skimmer basket, so they can't get through that, and then it folds over the top enough so they can't get over the space at the top when the lid is on. This way I can leave the screen off the front and the farthest they're going to get is into the skimmer basket. I won't have to worry about them getting to the area behing that where the pump is. kimbra, Try the HTML clickable thumbnails. Also, give the frogs some time and they will get used to you. I feed mine crickets and nightcrawlers and they come right up to me now and they'll let me pick them up. Once you coax a few to within a few feet of you with worms others will follow. I think you're always going to have some that just don't want anything to do with humans. Witz

just-a-pb. I am still not sold on OB. If I had more confidence in the PB salemen that came to my house, I would have hired them. I did a lot of research on this site and asked them some good questions. I knew both of them were BSing me. Someone like that will never get my business. Also, their "design" was not very impressive. I will be hiring an architect and not using their plans. It was never my intention to use their plans!!!