Night Light is lethal? Anyone have a pic of it?

Hmmm... NIGHT LIGHT is really thorny? Good to know. I have one coming from Heirloom the end of this month.

I do have New Dawn in the garden, but I would not describe it as very thorny - well it has thorns allright, but it somewhat less wicked as for example Paul's Himalayan Musk, which tends to scratch me regardless what protection I put on.

As for rugosas, as much as I remember they are mostly shrubs, but not climbers? I can't grow anything there that would block the sidewalk, so ideally I would need something with long flexible canes.

The three thorniest things I can think of are:

LADY CAROLINA: An extensive climber.

WHITE SURPRISE: A Lens rose of some size. Probably hard to find, but with prickles of truly awesome viciousness and quantity. Fascinating fuzzy buds. HUGE white single blooms.

ALBA ODORATA: BIG rose, Fascinating fuzzy buds. Get too close and you will marry it.

Jeri

Someone posted a picture of the thorns on Night Light on the Help Me Find Roses pages under Night Light. It is here:

www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.38583

I have an old picture of my Night Light when it was smaller blooming in this picture in front of the red climber Too Hot to Handle.

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It does not show the thorns here, but you can get an idea of what it looks like. The flowers look best when they are partly open. They are a yellow that ages red. I think they look ratty when they get old. The climber benefits from a regular spray program because mine will blackspot. It is hardy having survived that awful Easter '07 freeze, but it is a good idea to work around it very gingerly.

Another very thorny rose that I know of is the hybrid tea Electron. If it does well in your area it is another possibility also.

My Sombreuil is VERY thorny. It puts out very long canes which you could train along your fence. If not pruned too hard, it gets thick and bushy too. Canes become stiff & hard to move after a while. The flowers are gorgeous, and it blooms 7-8 months of the year in our climate.

Jackie

John Cabot has rather nasty thorns that look quite big and will scare people off touching it. It's pretty bulletproof around here. My only worry is that it might get too big and start scratching the cars with lose canes.

I do feel for you. I have a somewhat similar problem, but had'nt thought of retaliating in such a subtle manner! what a great idea.

I haven't grown these two roses myself, but in this book I have by Dermot O'Neill he says that Saint Swithun (an Austin rose) and Souvenir de Georges Pernet are two really great roses which are really thorny and used for protection and says nobody would dare go anywhere near them.They both look lovely in the picture, St Swithun is peachy and the other is pink.
Cheers,
Sanju

Fourth of July. The huge thorns curve. They are vicious.

Sammy

Yes, 'Fourth of July'. Scary! 'Laguna' is another. Not as numerous, but needle-sharp, and the hooks on the back of the foliage are no less nasty.

It should be noted that sometimes the hooks on the back of the foliage (some roses have them, some don't) can be as vicious--sometimes the canes are nearly bare of prickles, but the foliage will attack--I'm looking at you, Madame Afred Carriere!

Hmmm- I grow Souvenir De Georges Pernet (from Burlington Roses), and although still a young plant, it is not excessively thorny -- I would say just average.

One that probably fits the bill exactly would be Darlow's Enigma -- big thorns and long pliable canes and rather a pretty plant besides that blooms a lot. Or if you want more rambunctious growth -- go with Mermaid (very rambunctious, fast grower) or Sombreuil (a little less rambunctious, but still a fast grower).
Fourth of July is also quite thorny, however, and would probably do the trick, but it will stay small the first year or two. It's a slow starter.

Or if you want killer thorny Hybrid Teas -- the usual bush shape -- take any of these -- About Face, Perfect Moment and/or Falling in Love. Or maybe the floribunda Outrageous -- very thorny that one also.

Kathy

I was thinking of planting a line of Gertrude Jekyll in the back fence for security purposes to prevent thieves from climbing over our fence.

But isn't there a legal issue involved if someone gets injured due to the thorns?

Gertrude Jekyll is a very thorny rose...I remembered tying a bunch of those roses using a rubber band and my fingers got caught inside and I was screaming for help.

On a second thought - you should plant a rose that is not fragrant so that people would not be interested in the rose.

I am not sure what size you need, but I also vote for Fourth of July (also known as Crazy for You).

WOW!

Another one that hasn't been mentioned that is viciously thorny is City of York (also known as Direktor Benschop). It has lovely white double flowers in late spring/early summer. The canes are only somewhat flexible. It definitely wants to climb and occupy a lot of space, but the THORNS!!

THICK

ABUNDANT

LONG

SHARP!!

The Night Light cane looks intimidating!

I am not sure about the legal issues involved, but since they use rugosas for the public greens and quite a few neighbors have rose hedges, I assume it is ok, at least over here - well at least as long as you can pass a sidewalk without an axe.

I also agree that the thorns on the leaves may be vicious, from my experience ramblers tend to have them and before you know it, all loose canes already have attached themselves to your clothing. :)

Sombreuil is indeed a very pretty rose, I got one this spring to climb on our shed, but still can think about replacing it near the fence instead. On the other hand it indeed may encourage people to pluck the flowers, so probably something less vase-viable might be a better choice.

I am surprised that New Dawn is not thorny enough for you. Are you sure that you have New Dawn and not an impostor?

I second Hoover suggesting Laguna. Gorgeous, fragrant rose, but gosh, the thorns are truly bad. Many Kordes roses would fit into the very thorny category.
Leonardo da Vinci, a Romantica rose is also a thorny beast with octopus habit.

Laguna indeed looks pretty. As for my New Dawn, well my DH bought it at the local plant supermarket, so their plant labeling often is a bit of mystery, but I used to have NDawn in my parents garden and they certainly look very similar as much as I can recall. Mine is still young plant, barely 2 years old, that may be the reason, for it still has to put some size, but I can't recall it being very bad at the parents either, at least not to the point that you are reluctant to prune it (parents used to have gooseberry hedge... now that was the thorny mess).

Here is a pic of my supposed New Dawn last year, the pic is quite bad, but oh well someday I will get a proper digital photo camera.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:234225}}

I would stay away from roses that have hooked prickles.

You might have to spend considerable time freeing the captives, rather than just enjoying their screams of pain.

Remember you have to live with it also. To get the morning paper, it might take a few days depending on the accuracy of the paperboy.

Foghorn Leghorn
International Anti Grass League
Ex Sanus Officio

Well, living is the good part of it in this case, since we hardly ever walk past that part of the fence. I think generally it is a part of the problem, since people tend to avoid letting their dogs loose in somebodies front lawn, but near a back garden fence, it is free for all area.

About the captives though, that may be another reason to get the rose around there, for we have ferocious... siamese cat... when we moved in I naively thought that our little kitty will be content and safe in the garden... 8 feet tall fence is a joke for her, so I often have to run out to rescue some poor cornered neighbors cat. Maybe, just maybe there can be a way to keep our beast in (leashing does not exactly work, for you can hear the howling 5 miles against the wind).

rugosa hybrid Thomas Lipton. Thorns that should be registered as weapons. Blossoms big once, then spotty all summer after that. Mine was SP'd because I did't like the rigid verticle vase shape - but a row of them, bending into each other, would be a veritable rose PHALANX.

How much light and water will the rose get? Our New Dawns in full sunlight all day get much bigger than those shielded by the garage for half the day.

Water and sun depends a bit on where I plant it, i.e. on which side of the fence. From inside it would get sun pretty much from 5 am till 10 pm, on outside it would get some shade before it climbs over it. It usually does not get too hot overhere, thanks to the sea breeze, but some summers can be rather dry, especially the top layers of clay around. Then again I would not expect it to dry out once roots are established.

Good thing about New Dawn is its resistance to disease and the fact that it is available pretty much in any shop. By the way, do you have a Red New Dawn by any chance, I was wondering how that is compared to the pink one?

Joseph's Coat is very prickly.

I've been impaled by Sombreuil on many occasions, and it's been a consistant performer, gets BS, however.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sombreuil

Frau Karl Druschki.

ouch.

I have a Pink Pillar with large canes and it is very thorny - covered in beautiful pink blooms in spring.

My (t)horniest roses are: Easy Goin', Living Easy, and Hot Cocoa. Those names fit, I suppose. Also have Fourth of July -- which nearly took my eye out once when I was trimming a cane over my head. Now I wear a helmet when I trim it. Ouch. CJ

The thorniest rose in my garden is my climbing '4th of July.' Not sure if that's typical of that plant, or if I just got the thorniest one on the lot. :-)

Choices choices...4th of July would be quite nice, but it does not seem to be available in the ocal nurseries. :/

In Europe it is probably more likely known as "Crazy for You".

Yes indeed it is known as "Crazy for you", though often it is a non climbing version of it.

Conrad F. Meyer or it's sport, Nova Zembla -- but perhaps this is overkill. Or you could try Poncirus trifoliata href>, not a rose, but a hardy sour orange, with ornamental green stems in winter and unbelievable thorns.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nova Zembla

The thorns on trifoliate orange are about an inch long and sharp as daggers.

The orange thingie is interesting plant, I think I saw it in the garden center, it did not look like it will grow into something that nasty. o.O

Conrad Ferdinand Meyer with Stanwell Perpetual to hide its legs.

I think if you simply look for vicious thorns you will regret it. The horticultural equivalent of razor wire is probably not called for when there are children involved. Also it is you yourself, or whoever will have to be involved in pruning, watering, planting, and repairing the fence who will probably end up bleeding and lacerated. (I speak from experience, having tried it when I first moved to my somewhat dangerous -- in those days -- Brooklyn neighborhood.)

What you probably need really is a dense-growing hedge type rose like alba meilland, or one of the bonicas (the single flowered kind grows at least 5 feet tall, eventually, and is very lovely), or even The Fairy, which can also get large when happy. Or Ballerina, a hybrid musk. And I think there are a host of others. Dense growing is the operative word!

There's no free lunch, however, these roses have to be watered and cared for, especially when young.

However, if you or anyone else is interested in thorns, many many years ago, when I was a seven-year-old child and living in Europe, the garden where I went to school (it was a former convent) had an enormous wild rose bush with prodigious, ornamental thorns -- planted along a wall overlooking a lower garden -- and I remember our teacher showing me how you could off one of these thorns and stick ot on your nose (if you licked it, it stayed on by friction) and pretend to be a rhinoceros. How simple were our amusements then! But a hedge of these, no way! This rose should be a glorious stand-alone specimen, planted where the light can shine through its ruby-colored armature.

Here is a link that might be useful: Got gloves?

:)

Rosa sericea pteracantha, I think (or maybe Rosa primula?)

R. sericea and r. primula are funky ones, but I agree, it should be stand alone specimen. :)

I remember those rhino games, just we were doing it with maple seed :) When I was a kid there was a hedge from rugosas or galicas around the ground floor apartment of the building we lived in, which all the children were pacing around in the summer in a hope to plunder the garden of some lady living there, yet the growing around forget-me-nots had to do, for it was pretty much impenetrable barrier. :D If I had space I would definitely go for either of those, not that much as a hedging plant, but I really love jam made from their hips.

Anyways, there is a bit too little space for the proper hedge there without removing the fence and I do not want to do it at this point. Also if I wanted a thorny hedge I would probably go for hawthorn (Crataegus), it has vicious thorns and is a bit easier to shape into a tall hedge.

For same reason some very vigorous variety would not do either, since the sidewalk should be still usable. I do not mind maintaining it, I had/have all sorts of thorny things in my garden over the years, somehow thorns do not bother me that much, especially if it is non-cactus ones. As for children, well 10 year plus should have enough sense to figure that if you grab the thorny stem it will prick, also they have a proper field to play just around the corner, so I think they will simply loose interest in hanging out near our fence if they can't easily abuse it.

Anyways, I might go for Laguna, the nursery nearby has it and it seems to be quite sturdy and pretty plant. I wonder though how flexible Laguna's canes are, HMF says it has upright habit, so might be not the best choice to train on a fence. Otherwise it would probably be City of York (or likely both of them since it is a long fence).

I second the Ballerina recommendation. New Dawn or Sombreuil are also decent choices. I have a fresh wound right now from one of Moore's hulthemia hybrids/trier derivatives so I would say some of the hybrid musks would also fit this bill.

I love this thread.

I have a 2 climbing Handel roses on my arbor, has cream petals with strawberry colored tips. Most importantly (at least for this thread), it has large, curved thorns; and grows fairly quickly.

That's interesting, since I was thinking today if to SP Handel I have, or still leave it for a year. Mine did not do well in 3 years (I got it as a gift in midsummer potted, so first year half-lyish counts, but 2 years in soil with about 8+ hours of sun, bit cold shade in the morning though), one half decent cane, most of the season standing naked from bs, especially last year when I did not spray at all, quite ok blooming though for the sad panda plant he is.

So I am wondering if to SP it for good, or it may do better in more sunny and warm spot + spraying. Also, are his canes flexible at least to some extend, for the one (crappy one) he has here is rather stiff and upright.

Sombreuil AKA COL WHITE has held me in it's tender embrace several times. I think that is due to my poor memory and the fact the thorns look spread out and give one a false sense of: I can handle it, I do not need my gloves or thornproofs for this one."

Several hours later, etc.

OTOH one just knows to stay away from the Rugosas and other recommendations so wisely given here by friends who have been scarred --ER--DIGO--scared by life threating visages.

Good luck in your quest!

F.L.

Night Light<?font>

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It's the looks that kills. The perfect deterrent. The one that says "My soccer ball is gonna be toast if I kick it into that thing.".

It also needs to be rather big--this is no place for a wimpy band that takes a few years to get going. Ideally, one might dig out a big rose, preserving as much root system as is practical, and transplanting it. I picked New Dawn because it has proven to be winter and disease resistant in many gardens--it may not be hard to find a large specimen that needs a new home.

"Life threatening visage," indeed!

(Me speler lax good 2 oftan!)

F.L.

He, he. I love this thread too. You guys are so clever. LOL, LOL . . . .

Debbie

I see you have plenty of input on roses with thorns. I thought I would add 2 that no one posted, and they are Glamis Castle which is a white David Austin English rose, planted together they make a nice hedge and a hybird tea called First Prize which is pink with huge blooms, both of these are thorny as heck. I have both of these and they always get me when I deadhead them. The First Prize gets a little taller then the Glamis Castle. My parents have a vacation beach house in San Diego and they plant thorny rose bushes in front of all the windows to stop anyone getting to the windows when they are not there. No one is going to get through these roses with there deadly thorns to get to the windows to break in, thorny roses make good deterrents from any theif trying to get to a window to break in.
Good Luck,
Carrie

'Plaisanterie' or 'Pleasant Valley' has some nice big thorns on it...and should get bigger than a Volkswagen.

Our Plaisanterie is happily devouring our shed and is serving as a home for the robin family. :D It is indeed big, thorny, pretty mess, but I would doubt that it can be successfully trained on a fence, it just wants to grow bushy to all sides.