La Reine vs. Reine Victoria

16 years ago

I ordered Reine victoria from Hortico. It has grown well and bloomed several times. After posting the pictures on HMF,I was told that my Reine Victoria wasn't. I checked the pictures for La Reine and they match pretty good for what I actually have...

So question: other than the height difference and the slight color depth, what are the major differences and is one far superior to the other?

THANKS

Jeannie

Here is a link that might be useful: La Reine - Not Reine Victoria ?

Featured Answer

portlandmysteryrose

2 years ago

last modified: 2 years ago

Bourbons. Such divas! They love our gardens and fulfill our wildest Victorian dreams or they tease us with slow progress and stingy blooms until the very last of our patience is burned out and then finally build up enough presence to erupt into the grandest show in the garden or they sulk while offering just enough meager crumbs of sumptuous and deeply fragrant beauty to keep us hooked and stay our shovels or they simply succumb to blackspot or harsh winters and turn up their prissy little toes after a few years. When they love us and our gardens, they get bigger and better every year and toss around cascades of blooms like those Krista receives for her tender care. Time will tell what each of yours does, Magpie. :-) Carol

Zephirine

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Comments (30)

cweathersby
16 years ago
Jeannie,
First of all I want to thank you for all of the pictures you put on HelpMeFind. You have really helped me out over the years. I've always been amazed by how large your collection must be because almost every rose I look up has a picture by you!
The link you gave us showed a rose that doesn't look like my La Reine. I looked over on HelpMeFind and about 2/3rds of the roses look like the same rose that I have. It's a darker color than your picture, more packed with petals, and sometimes is balled up (but always opens). The picture that Susan Murphy posted as La Reine is exactly what mine looks like.
As for the differences in the two roses, I don't know because I only grow La Reine. It grows upright and is wonderful to fan out and peg.
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I couldn't find a picture that showed a bloom close up. But the darker ones over on HMF are exactly like mine.
Carrie
riku
16 years ago
In my garden my Pickering Reine Victoria retains through out it's bloom the classic small cup shaped flower characteristic of one line of the bourbon family. Can't help with the other version as my Hortico one died before blooming.

Reine Victoria (Pickering)

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kathwhit
16 years ago
Decobug, I also want to thank you for you pictures on HMF. I hope you find the answer to your dilema.
Kathy
Krista_5NY
16 years ago
La Reine is a Hybrid Perpetual, while Reine Victoria is a Bourbon. (Reine Victoria is identical to Mme Pierre Oger, except for bloom color. MPO is a sport of Reine Victoria.)

The blooms, canes, and foliage of Reine Victoria are different in appearance from La Reine.

La Reine tends to have larger blooms.

These first three pics are La Reine.

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This last pic is Reine Victoria

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cincy_city_garden
16 years ago
Wow, I thought I always wanted Reine Victoria...now I think I like La Reine better! This confirms my like of the globular bloom form...even more than cupshaped.

Carrie, wow that's a monster! (but in a good way)

Krista, I love the last picture of La Reine.

Eric
cupshaped_roses
16 years ago
Hmmm Eric ... The globular shaped rose blooms are referred to as deep cups ... the other shape shallow cups (with inner petals forming a rosette). I also prefer the deep cupshaped roses like Eden or the classic Reine Victoria.

Jeannie: These 2 roses are often confused. Sometimes they are sold as La Reine Victoria over here.

Never seen a bigger specimen of La reine as Carries. gorgeous!!

Reine Victoria:

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trepadora
16 years ago
I have both Le Raine and La Raine Victoria.
But they came as two small bands last fall, so they are still babies and in pots.
I was thinking about puting Le Raine in a big pot and LRV in the ground.
After seeing Carrie's beautiful picture about LR, I might have to move a couples roses to provide enough space for LR.
Thanks so much for Jeannis to post this question and everyone who answer the question.
celeste/NH
16 years ago
I also grow both La Reine and Reine Victoria. La Reine (Hybrid Perpetual) tends toward lilac tones for me here in zone 4, whereas Reine Victoria is a dusky pink. They both have wonderful globular, cabbage-shaped buds, but La Reine's blooms are larger.

Celeste

LA REINE (Hybrid Perpetual)

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Open Bloom

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REINE VICTORIA (Bourbon)

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cweathersby
16 years ago
For anyone who is scared by the size of La Reine in my picture above - it wouldn't have been that wide if I hadn't have pegged her.
Of course, a 12' tall rose that just shoots straight up isn't nearly as attractive as a pegged one.
buford
16 years ago
All right. La Reine is added to my list.

Stop it you awful evil enabler people!
Jean Marion (z6a Idaho)
Original Author
16 years ago
Well I went to Heirloom Roses website to see what they had to say about La Reine and Reine Victoria.

Right next to La Reine was a gorgeous YOLANDE d'ARAGON and on the other page, next to Reine Victoria was a luscious Louise Odier.

Now they had the heights at La Reine 3', Yolande d'Aragon 5', Reine Victoria 6', and Louise Odier 5'.

HMF says the heights are La Reine 5', Yolande d'Aragon 5', Reine Victoria 7', and Louise Odier 10'.

Above we see a La Reine bush far surpassing 5'...

HMF says Reine Victoria is susceptible to blackspot and refers to it as an octopus.

I've read:

that Yolande d'Aragon has long arching canes, with vegetative centers sometimes, and blackspot.

Louise Odier does not repeat well...

and on and on and on...

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom
Krista_5NY
16 years ago
In my garden setting, the Bourbons such as Mme Pierre Oger/ Reine Victoria will tend to grow taller than La Reine.

La Reine is 4 feet tall.

Vintage Gardens website has good diagrams showing the growth habit of the Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals.

Here are a few pics from nearby public gardens.

Reine Victoria

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Louise Odier

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cweathersby
16 years ago
Louise Odier DOES NOT REPEAT WELL at least not for me. But HMF has the height right.
La Reine has an OK repeat. Nothing like teas or chinas. And before I pegged it the repeat wasn't great.
berndoodle
16 years ago
What cupped shaded said. The globular form of Reine Victoria and Louise Odier is unmistakable. The foliage is not like La Reine's. It is quite a bit shinier.

La Reine will grow straight up to 7 or 8 feet here, can be pegged or can be hard-pruned to a reasonable height each winter. The foliage is old-fashioned HP type.
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
16 years ago
Heh. I think my 'Reine Victoria' must be 'La Reine'. I bought it labeled as 'Reine Victoria' but it looks like the pictures of 'La Reine', the foliage is 100% matte, no shine at all, and it does grow straight up 7 or 8 feet.

Well, darn it, I like it anyway!
Jean Marion (z6a Idaho)
Original Author
16 years ago
Krista's picture of Louis Odier is awesome!
purple_petal
16 years ago
Which of the two, the HP (La Reine) or the Bourbon (Reine Victoria) repeats blooming more oftern? And, please, how often does each rebloom?
berndoodle
16 years ago
Not that much for both in my garden.
Molineux
16 years ago
REINE VICTORIA (Bourbon, 1872) was very prone to black spot in my garden and was eventually shovel pruned. I also wasn't thrilled with the small flower size and lack of remontancy (rebloom).

I've never grown LA REINE but it is definately on my wish list. The larger flower size, better rebloom (according to the above reports), and medium upright growth habit is very appealing. Alas, I hate to admit it but I'm completely out of space. LOL!

Patrick
Krista_5NY
16 years ago
In my garden setting, the Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals repeat in flushes, and the repeat is not as heavy as the June flush.

The Bourbons seem to repeat a little better than the Hybrid Perpetuals. They can throw beautiful blooms in the autumn.

Here are a few autumn pics:

Reine Victoria

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Mme Pierrre Oger

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Stopandsm NJ
2 years ago
I wish I could see the photos that you all took time to post here. I guess after a certain amount of time Houzz deletes them. Anyone still grow these roses?
portlandmysteryrose
2 years ago
Stopandsm(ell the roses!), I hate the disappearing photos, too. Have you tried going to HelpMeFind Roses? In case you are not familiar, it is a wonderful site where you can search cultivars and see descriptions plus ratings and photos from members around the world. Carol
Stopandsm NJ
2 years ago
Yes, HelpMeFind is my favorite. I like Houzz photos too. I'm scouring the Internet to see as many photos as I can before making a decision. Thank you, Carol.
Krista_5NY
2 years ago
This post brings back memories. I still grow these roses. (The photo website I used to use is defunct, so the photos I posted from them are gone.)

I will post more photos from my computer files another day, these are from my cell phone.

Reine Victoria

Reine Victoria is in the center front
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
@Krista_5NY What is the light pink rose behind, is it Mme. Pierre Oger?

And if so, any differences in the plants besides the bloom color?
Krista_5NY
2 years ago
No, that's not MPO. Reine Victoria and MPO are identical except for bloom color.

Reine Victoria

Mme Pierre Oger

La Reine
portlandmysteryrose
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
Absolutely gorgeous, Krista!!! How I envy those blooms! I wish Bourbons were healthier in my area. I only grow Zephirine Drouhin now, although Honorine de Brabant stays pretty healthy in Portland for the most part. If I had more room, I’d grow her for sure. HPs tend to be happier, but alas, no room at the inn. Carol
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
2 years ago
I thought by planting a few of each class I'd see which classes do best in my climate. Alas, I have two bourbons within 5 feet of each other and one is leaps and bounds ahead of the other. So not sure what that means 🤷‍♀️
Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b)
2 years ago
@portlandmysteryrose I'm not sure which I'm admiring more, the saturated color of your rose, or the beautiful color of your house!

I've got Reine Victoria and Mme. Ernest Calvat (the one doing much better). They're first years bands, I have not yet seen any blooms. Maybe next year! Yes I bought them because they seem very romantic.