Restoring the concrete pond pt2 - Gilroy

11 years ago

Hi All,

Well, DW and I have been hard at work on the pond all week since we had a 'shutdown' (furlough, forced time off, whatever...). When I last posted, we had moved several tons of surrounding rock, and were ready to remove the Acacia trees that had originally cracked the concrete pond structure. We got the trees removed:

{{gwi:224474}}

Then we started stumping them. For those who are unfamiliar with stumping, this means digging the stump out, and removing the large roots. This is more effective at preventing regrowth of the tree than stump grinding. It also prevents the cubic feet of sawdust that is left in the soil after stump grinding, which effectively makes the soil unusable for a year or two, because decomposition uses up all the nitrates, but I digress. Stumping a tree is a bunch of work, stumping a half dozen is miserable, but when it's done, you do get that sense of accomplishment... My wife s such a trooper, in there with the digging bar ripping out stumps and roots...

{{gwi:224476}}

Then we poured bases for the waterfall and pump house, built the pump house up, and put in the base for the waterfall's raised pool. Originally, I was thinking to hide the pump under the waterfall, but that just wasn't going to work very well in the space we had, so we separated them. In the foreground you can see the waterfall base. We will have two waterfalls, one into the smaller pond, one into the larger pond, both fed from a single pool basin, which will be on top of the cinder blocks. In the back, you can see the cinder block house for the pump, filter just outside (not in this photo). The AC will also be in the pump house, which DW affectionately has named "the bunker". It will have large rocks hiding it, and plants on top, possibly with a tertiary trickle waterfall down the front, if I can get that to work...

{{gwi:224478}}

Next, we got the felt out and then put in the liner. I ordered a 40x40 to make sure we could cover all the weird curves and such. I had no idea the liner was so heavy! 400lbs shipping weight. Awful for two people, get friends to help if you are crazy enough to do this... We have lots of fold and wrinkles despite our best efforts (DW's efforts, I was useless at this task). We decided to fill it with water to see if it looked better, and it did. Unfortunately, not good enough. We are going to mortar the bottom with some strategically placed river rock for aesthetics. We will probably refill at that point and see how it looks. For those f you who are appalled at the waste of water, fear not, it was all fed to our redwood trees, which need it in this heat, and are recovering from years of neglect. It's crazy that you can dump a couple thousand gallons of water on these trees, and get nary a puddle. No joke, water comes out of the hose and just disappears into the ground, for hours at a time. In any case, it looks good with water in it.

{{gwi:224479}}

Next weekend, we install the return piping, and mortar the bottom. Comments and tips are dearly appreciated.

Mike

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Comments (7)

waterbug_guy
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Looking good! You have some of my fav tools. The blue contractor wheelbarrow. They last and last. I always wanted to paint the Bobcat logo on mine. And a grain shovel, great for moving material.

I think you have the right idea on doing a little and seeing how you like it. Best way imo.

Redwood roots are pretty shallow. Soaker hose might be better. You might even think about a trickle water change system for the pond. That's where you put a drip head, like 1 gal per hour (depends on pond size) running 24/7 and the pond over flows. Gives you really good water quality. I think the overflow would be good for the redwoods. If you're using water in the landscape may as well get two uses out of it. For the overflow you could build up the top of the pond a bit except where you want the overflow to go. You sure have enough liner. From there you could make a stream to the redwoods assuming not too far. Just an idea.

I miss the Bay Area.
bluelake
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Fantastic work! The two of you have been VERY busy. This will be a beautiful pond when it's completed. As for putting rocks in the bottom, be aware that it's much easier to clean a pond without the rocks down below which catch and hold lots of debris. The liner will eventually get a natural coating of algae fur, if you will and it will not look like black liner. Also, once fish and plants are put in that will disguise the bottom liner more.

Whichever way you chose, it's going to be beautiful.
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Thanks, Gilroy! I wonder if anyone has success posting images from their libraries directly to gardenweb? We've gone back and forth--from making the pond into a firepit--which would mean somehow making it drain snow melt and rainwater, to reviving the pond, which means a bigger financial and time committment, plus lots more to learn (just trying to figure out the GPH and the lift and the head height and immersible vs external and direct drives vs mag drives...! Yikes!) We've also talked about making it a firepit surrounded by a pond or somehow making it into a hot tub or outdoor pizza oven. It's the focal point of our backyard and letting it fill up with algae and Mosquitos and weeds every summer just isn't working. Our neighbor put in a swimming pool and all the noisy equipment sits atop the hill just above the pond's retaining wall and behind a hideous chain link fence. We're hoping to cover up the noise with the waterfall sounds and eventually put up our own wooden fence to hide the chain link. But, wow, what a lot of work and expense. I love old houses and am glad you're trying to stay true to the design of your home's era. Have you posted any photos of your home and where the pond is sited in relation to the house? Good luck!
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Very nice. Really like the rock shoals, DW has a very good eye. Using big rocks is smart. Once algae covers the rocks a bit they tend to disappear a bit, bigger rocks disappear less. Some things you might want to consider... It looks like there are some gaps in between rocks that could be filled with a little bit of mortar. I know the look you're going, you want natural not mortared rock wall, so you don't want to grout them all. But when they're underwater things change. Just like in natural gaps will fill with muck. And you won't be able to see these gaps as well even with no algae. Not a big deal but imo, better to fill with mortar. You can still leave deep gaps, but they can be filled a bit. At least as far as I can tell from the pictures. Not saying this is important at all. The cracking mortar isn't a big deal of course. For other readers... Reducing water in mortar reduces shrinkage. Like dry mashed potatoes. Two 1/2" coats would reduce shrinkage. Or doing small sections. Each section shrinks and then an adjacent section is done. The shrinkage crack would happen where it's thinnest, over the folds. You can fill the larger cracks, like say more than 1/16", if you liked. This is a good idea to lock it all down, but not super important. What is kind of important is to wait 3 or 4 weeks before filling with water. 4 weeks is best. You can wet it down right away, a little standing water would be OK. There is a lot of debate on whether keeping cement damp is needed. 30 years ago it was a requirement. Cement never stops curing and it does need some moisture. So to me, in summer, I do think it helps. And it's so easy being at the bottom of a pond. The 3 or 4 weeks are needed for the crystal structure to form enough to be fairly waterproof and to completely enclose the lime. If you add water too soon the lime can leach out and weaken the mortar a lot. People fear the lime leaching out and causing high pH and can be a small issue with uncured cement. But the weakening of the mortar is of more concern imo. Before filling the pond hose down everything. Mortar, rocks, liner, until there's a few inches of standing water. No reason to scrub anything or use anything other than water. Let that sit for 12 hours or longer. Pump out that water. Now you'd be ready to fill the pond. This wash down gets rid of dirt and mortar dust and gives any surface lime a chance to dissolve into the water. Some people might tell you to wash the mortar with acid to "remove the lime". An acid wash has the opposite effect. The surface of cement reacts with CO2 forming a kind of "rust" called calcite. The CO2 can be in the air or water. Calcite has a pH of about 7 and helps seal the cement beneath. An acid wash would dissolve the calcite leaving fresh brand new cement with a surface pH of 12. Formation of calcite is also why you don't want a lot of standing water during the cure. You want CO2 in the air getting to the cement.
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Very nice.
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Mike, OMG what a lot of work. I just have a little hole in the ground with a simple stream and I thought that was labor intensive!!! hahaha Your rock work is impressive; very artistic and, well, rugged. I was going to say "manly" but that sounded dorky!! LOL Good job!!! I look forward to your finished product. You are doing a fantastic job! Anne
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waterbug_guy
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Bluelake, mortared rock is easy to and because it looks so good it's a pleasure to clean. Easier than wrinkled liner imo. I personally have never seen a pond with a natural coating of algae fur. Sides sure. Bottom is always covered in muck or if the pond is vacuumed every couple of weeks some algae and muck.

I think it's a matter of personal taste. I've never liked the look of liner wrinkles, pipes, pumps, pots and filters in the bottom of the pond. There's a long standing knee jerk reaction in pond forums to rocks in a pond...bah, bah, bah, rocks, bah, bah. Unjustified imo. Loose rocks are an issue. Mortared rock no problem.
gilroybighouse
Original Author
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks, Guys. It was a lot of work, but it was really great to see it with water. To clarify, we were thinking to mortar the bottom, and mortar the rocks in, but only put rocks in specific areas. Sort of get a river rock in sandy bottom effect.

Bluelake, I appreciate the comments, and had already heard others say that loose rock was a bad idea, esp if we have koi. We're going to start with goldfish, but might add some koi later. Again, baby steps...

Waterbug, there are some tools that are indispensable. That wheelbarrow is definitely one of them. I also have a six foot digging bar that is a good friend. : ) The redwood overflow is a great idea, but unfortunately, the trees are 150' away from the pond. I am going to look at setting up some way to reuse the back flush and pond vac water constructively, though. I have a tetra pressurized filter w/UV that I just put in the ground, so when I use that I don't want to waste the water. Likewise, I got a pond-o-vac 4, and I should use the water from that too. We have nearby ferns, roses, and assorted flowers that might appreciate the occasional muck and fish poo...

If I could, I'd like your opinions on an idea we've been toying with. If you look at the photos, the waterfall is right next to a skinny connecting channel between the small and large pond areas. We were thinking of perhaps taking the rocks that we cover the waterfall structure with, and using them to cover a portion of the channel to make a fish tunnel. There will be a fairly high flow through the channel, so I don't know how much the fish would use it. Flow might be ~30gph through there. Do you think it would be good for the fish?
Thanks, Mike
waterbug_guy
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Fish love flow. When they spawn in the wild the water flow from rain is one of the triggers to swim into the flow to find flooded areas to spawn.
mckool
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Shalom, my pond vac, can't remember the name - anyway, I use tie a fine mesh bag over the end of the discharge to catch the good stuff and that let's the water return into the pond, so I only loose maybe a quart or so.

The tunnel will also provide protection from visiting non-invited dinner guests.

Pond botton needs to be a continous solid type base, be it a liner or rocks, (if mortored) for ease of cleaning.
McKool
Calamity_J
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
WOW!!! What a labor of LOVE! You will enjoy this soooo much! Ponds are never done, you will have many hours of tweeking and primping it! lol! Plus your new fish babies to luv...;-)

Restoring the concrete pond pt2 - Gilroy

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