Susan---No, my garden is not on HMF. I've only been up here in N.GA. for 4 1/2 yrs. Started growing roses in S.FL. back in 1975-76. Learned as I went from other top notch rosarians and over the years grew a lot of different roses. Got bit by the exhibiting bug back in 1989. More for garden, total bush and flower habit. I've won my fair share of stuff over the years but enjoy being called the "cheepskate" of the exhibitors. I still drive the hard core exhibitors nuts and I've only done two shows this past year. I'm keeping my garden under 100 bushs, so I'm being fussy about what I put in. I've learned over the years to try and grow a little bit of everything as far as roses go. Each rose has it's own beauty and what I like, someone else might not. Don't get overwhilmed and enjoy your roses.

Diane -- thanks. I knew I was starting to obsess! Do you think that how hard you prune depends on how cold your winters are? I'm sure your normal winters are colder than our normal winters, even though we're further north. Cats - thanks, I'll take a look at the Vintage site. Lance -- super helpful, thanks so much. You know, this is the latest I've pruned since I moved here in '05, and I haven't done any horrific damage, but then, this winter is way out there. I imagine your conditions are pretty similar. I will take another look at Peace. I think I cleaned it up substantially today, and if I can find the little growth bud lines you describe, I can bring down the height some more. Good to know Peace probably likes my pruning style (it gives great shows each summer). The red thing could be Chrysler Imperial, although it's definitely not trying to get as big as the Putative Peace. It had a lot more deadwood on it and seemed to have been hit harder by the weather, as well. In another post I mentioned I might need to move it, and I suppose if i do that I would want to hard prune it anyway to take some burden off the roots which will be compromised. I actually like pruning -- it's one of the few maintenance type things I find meditative. I'm not sure Marie Pavie is for me as I'm not into the pale pinks and whites, or into smaller flowers. I have to go out tomorrow and see how my small Mutabilis survived the weather events. I don't see it much here. Is that because I am tempting fate trying to grow it at all?

Whaas, You're making the idea and concepts of pruning too complicated for yourself. No doubt because you have been doing a lot of reading of rose books... Most mainstream rose culture, practice and info in North America is based on those that garden in significantly warmer zones than zone 5 Milwaukee. Winter kill is going to be the single largest deciding factor of what to prune away and how in your zone. Expect all but the hardiest roses, or those planted in a nice little microclimate area, to have significant winter kill each year unless you have very hardy varieties such as Explorers/Parkland's, OGR's, a small handful of Buck roses, some of the Austins and other hardier type shrub rose varieties. If you want to make pruning simple, just prune off all the dead cane and then find where the cane is viable and alive. Ideally find an outward facing swollen bud and prune the cane there. Do that for all of the canes and roses and you are done. Prune for shape and size on hardy roses where lots of cane is left, if you so choose. You will find that some roses will have a lot more cane left than others based on each rose's inherent hardiness. Shrub roses for instance, vary greatly in their individual hardiness, whereas by and large, HT's and Floribunda's are not hardy at all and will mostly need to be pruned close to the soil line in zone 5. As for the idea about not pruning for 2 to 3 years to allow the rose to build a foundation, again, this is based on warm zones with little to no dieback and also applicable to once blooming old garden roses and also specific climbing/rambling varieties that only bloom on old wood. This advice is not applicable to our zones unless you are growing really hardy roses or winter protecting them extensively, as otherwise, there will always be dieback that needs to be pruned out. Really, my best advice is to just stop worrying about how much to prune. It really isn't complicated stuff and nature will dictate this for you each year. Just prune off/down the dead canes, find good cane and prune there. Later, if some of the cane wasn't good and dies off, just prune it away later. The rose will take care of the rest. Good luck.

Although Ann is usually right about everything, "high-shouldered" means having a short neck and leaves close to the flower. Ex.: "The deep pink rosette blossoms [of Rose de Rescht] are set closely against the medium green foliage, which frames each rose perfectly to give the impression of a leafy collar or what is known as a 'high shouldered' look." http://www.pswdistrict.org/text/articles/romnov04.html Ramblin', if you apply any general fertilizer according to label directions and don't overlap another major nitrogen feed, you shouldn't have any problem with too much N. Fertilizer directions are always based on what is a generous but not excessive amount of N. Just memorize the expression NPK for the order of nutrients in the labelled analysis. Excess of nitrate produces short stems and unnaturally dark green foliage, but JFK tends to have naturally dark green foliage.