"'Sunrise' is a cross of the ultra-hardy Echinacea purpurea with the less often seen yellow species E. paradoxa. "

If that's true, the problem may be in your temps. Purpurea germinates as you describe above, Paradoxa - Sow at 64-71ºF for 2-4 wks, move 40ºF for 9 wks, move to 50ºF for germination

It's also possible that these new echinaceas have sterile seeds because they want you to buy the plant at $15 a pop instead of starting them from seed yourself.

blueheron,
that sounds pretty likely to me. Anything to protect profits, for some parties.

I wondered if they might be sterile...we'll see how my lonely little seedling turns out.
I'll try the method for paradoxa, Morz8, if the next batch show no signs of life in a couple weeks. Thanks.

Hey, triple b, the Malva 'Braveheart' you sent me are growing nicely...I just sowed the Oxheart tomatos yesterday. Have you started any of the seeds I sent you yet? (Lime Nic., balloonflower or louffa gourds)

Yes indeedy. The lime nico is a carpet of green and in need of the hunk o'seedling division method. The balloonflower has just shown itself (wintersown) and the louffa gourd are waiting for more starting mix, just as nico is waiting for potting mix. Any time now.... :o) Glad the seeds are doing well for you.

I'm using the hunk o'seedling method right now on some 'Camelot Rose' Foxgloves! I sprinkled the seed rather generously over a flat of ProMix and have already potted up 5 flats of 3" pots....and have barely made a dent! I hope they are popular at my upcoming plant sale!

We pot up about 25 flats of cell packs of those lime nico every year at work, separating out every little seedling. (And hundreds more flats of every bedding plant you can think of) After a few weeks of that, you see seedlings in your sleep!

Since I know it took quite some time to succeed with Echinacea paradoxa x purpurea crosses to make the yellow-orange-red range of new hybrids, I would assume that seed viability is a big issue. If I knew how to karyotype plants, I'd probably do that to my Echinaceas and see if that was the problem. Oops now I'm getting scientific. What I mean is count chromosomes, and sort them by size. If the chromosome count varies (think diploid, triploid, tetraploid, popular terms used in daylily breeding), then the offspring, WHEN produced, are probably sterile. Of course, you can get around that by treating stuff with Colchicine, but I don't know how to do THAT, either, even though I have enough Colchicums (the source plant) to cure the world of gout...

I'll stop now before I end up down another genetic rabbit hole--anyways, I'd guess there's low viability in the seeds produced by the fancy new hybrids. Heck--the Echinacea seeds I bought from Johnny's indicated germination rates as low as 50% even under optimal conditions (I don't NEED 16 bazillion Echinacea seedlings, so I didn't care if germination rates were on the low side).

As soon as my fancy hybrids get large enough to make seed saving an option, I'll experiment.

Lisa

I guess I was lucky to get even one 'Sunrise' to germinate. I got only one E. 'Fragrant Angel' (white) to germinate also out of 25 seeds.
I've NEVER had a problem with E. 'Magna'. It germinates 100% and selfseeds so madly in the garden that I just quit growing it in the greenhouse and pot up all the selfseeders instead. I also grew E. 'Ruby Star' this spring in the greenhouse and it was a 100%er too.

I have had the same experience, I have just 1 Sunrise seedling, but then my paradoxa just sprouted also, so I'm hoping they are just slower. I sure hope they are similar to theie parent plant after all this care & concern for them.

Slow-to-sprout is a possibility. I was despairing that my last Echinacea variety (simulans) wasn't going to germinate, and it's (natch) the one I wanted most. I found sprouts last night. End of despair. Now I can fret over my Aquilegias.

Lisa

most likly its their need for a long cool moist period, the species all need cold to break dormancy (the fresher the seed the less likly it is to germinate with out the cold treatment)

The highly selected forms of E. purpurea have been selected out against the dormancy period, so often they will germinate with out a cold period.

Sow the seedsin a small baggy with some moist paper towle, and leave at room temp for two weeks then move to your fridge, check the seeds every few weeks ( sometimes they will germinate in the fridge) after 9 to 12 weeks sow, with germination in a 2 to 4 weeks.

I put all my echinacea seed in zip lock baggies and leave them in the fridge through winter. I put them at the bottom of the veggie drawer. Almost 100% germinated this year. Works for me!

I WS'd both purple and yellow echinacea and they haven't germinated yet. I also started some from seed inside..the yellows have sprouted...nothing from the purples yet. Just received several more varieties of echinacea seed in mail today...unsure whether I should try WSing now or wait. One is E Tennesseeus..rare coneflower.

I would love it if any of you who are sprouting sunrise would come back and title a post "sunrise seedling color" (so we can find it) and tell us what kind of flower you got when it blooms. I know it'll be awhile, but I'm very curious to see if it will be a sunrise, a paradoxa, a purple or an original.

How interesting that this thread has risen from the ashes one year since I originally posted it. :)

I can report that the lonely one "Sunrise" and "Fragrant White" seedlings did grow on into plants outdoors. The "Sunrise" did not bloom last summer so have high hopes for it this year. The "Fragrant White" did bloom quite well.

So this year I have some E. "White Swan" sowed from fresh commercial seed, that seems to be taking its sweet time germinating. Sowed on March 12th (in the greenhouse) and not one little green head yet.