quirkyquercus and dibbit: Your answers caused me to have more questions. The program won't let me post another question unless I change the subject so I'm putting these questions into a single post. quirkyquercus: Thanks for clarifying the difference in spacing for specimen trees v. trees to form a canopy. In most places, I do want overlapping canopies. Your answer led me to have another question, You wrote, "If I want the canopies to overlap, I'd plant a little less than half the anticipated mature size..." Q: If the mature width is 50 feet, you might plant approximately 20 feet apart, give or take a little? Is my understanding correct? If so, I want to move a few trees planted within the past week or two - IF another move won't hurt them (they are Autumn Blaze maples). dibbit: Grass is not important. At the cottage where I used to live, I had grass paths between beds. The less grass, the less time spent mowing. I'd like to reforest the property using different trees and plantings, depending on the characteristics of an area. The property has several areas that are very different - a sand beach and dunes; a big open field; a protected area that overlooks a cove; a shallow pond that we are laboring to clean out and make healthier. The 'pond' is actually a ditch abandoned by VDOT for decades, the culvert got clogged up, a narrow ditch became a wide, shallow mosquito filled swale or 'pond' into which the summer people threw their trash and old appliances. Some areas are hard to access because they are so overgrown. These areas are wildlife heavena so I probably won't do much except make a path, try to keep the invasive stuff under control. I understand that public gardens may do things for short-term impact. What struck me here was that this garden used groves of dawn redwoods at the entrance to their main building. They can't cut these trees down in a few years because they planted them too close. I concluded that they didn't plant the redwoods too close, that the redwoods are okay being planted this close. We Virginians love our trees. If a botanical garden destroyed healthy trees because they didn't plan properly, they would be committing organizational suicide. I am using surveyer's tape as a reminder about newly planted trees that will need to be watered more often. Thanks for the tip about bamboo stakes and the 5 gallon bucket. I can do that - it's an improvement over my technique. Take care, Pam

Karen, I've been using these teepees a lot. I often find that, when a rose I've planted in a cluster is spreading too widely and invading other roses's space, I drive the 10ft rebars into the ground and secure them at the top; then tie the "wild" rose to the structure. My point is that, instead of re-locating a "spreading" rose, I just train it vertically. I do think it makes sense, however, to be able to have some room to maneuver around them, but this isn't always possible in my collection. When a rose on rebar seems to be sending out canes that are wider then the alloted space (i.e., beyond the rebar dimensions I had intended for it, I just pull the canes to the rebar and secure it to the structure with twine...or I cut the canes to fit.) I am finding that some of the roses grow much taller than the teepee (perhaps 6 feet taller, then, the canes start arching back down...it's a lovely sight for me). Some of my rebar teepees are as close as 2-3 ft from each other (Golden Celebration and Jude the Obscure come to mind...as well as MIP and Constance Spry). I would like to say that it IS wiser to set the rebar a little wider at the bottom. I've set a couple of them at only about an 18" diameter, and when the rose gets top heavy the structure can get wobbly. When a description of a rose says it's gonna need to be spaced 5 ft apart, this is not always reliable information. It really is gonna depend on your climate. An excellent example is the David Austin roses. Most descriptions of the David Austin roses suggest that they will stay 3-4 ft x 3-4 ft.... This is probably for a climate in England. For me 3-4 ft might really end up being 10-12 ft.... no exaggeration. So, when I space roses, it's always a "wait and see what's goon a happen" thing. In your situation, I'd space the individual teepees as far apart as I could to fill the space. If the roses don't exceed their space, plant other roses in between the teepees.. And, I ALWAYS put a clematis with the roses on the teepees... I hope this helps some. Robert

They will get mature heads of from 4' to 10'. Pick an average of around 8' in diameter. If you want them to touch, plant them 8' apart. Closer than that and you have fronds banging into each other. If you want them for shade value, then put them closer. I would price out fully-booted ones just out of curiosity. They do look better than the clear trunks unless you plan on growing stuff on the trunks. I did a job in Ft. Lauderdale where we tied staghorn ferns all around the clear trunks of five existing Sabals on the property. That was 7 or 8 years ago. I would imagine by now they have fully wrapped themselves and expanded.

Melissa, I, too, was motivated to plant my new hostas last year TOO close to each other, trying for that "fuller" look; needless to say, I have spent the last 2 weeks moving every single hosta farther apart. It hasn't been 6 months and they were already encroaching upon each other. I moved all the big ones as far back along the fence as possible & managed to give each one at least 1 more foot of clearance. Eventually, these must be dug up & divided, as I have managed to fill up almost every nook in my garden. I will try to post pics so that you have an idea. They say patience is a virtue; it's better to space them apart & wait the 3-5 years it takes them to reach full maturity, than to have to dig them up & move them. My two cents.