Nice to see Sanitred is #1 in the Google search! I wish that had been the case 6 years ago when this thread was started! The thing with Permaflex is that it's really thin - strong, but thin. I did two coats but it doesn't have much of a thickness. It's the liquid rubber (the blue stuff) that has thickness and stretch. The other thing is that what they say about the bonding process is absolutely true. At any stage (or age) Permaflex/LRB will bond with itself. If you follow the instructions this stuff will work. I speak from experience on that because the first install I did 4 years ago did not follow the instructions in one section (under the rocks on the waterfall side) and that section cracked this past winter. The rest of the pond which was clean concrete held up perfectly and looked as if it had just been painted when we drained and cleaned it. I like the color choices too! I went with the beige. The photo shows the finished re-hab from June. The *only* part that is new Permaflex is the floor (one coat) and the back wall under the waterfall and channel. Everything else is a 4 year old installation

will the sand affect my pond life? Yes, but probably not a lot. Certain kinds of life, animal and plant, will make the sand home if they make it to your pond. What plant life should I add to feed my fish and welcome in other wildlife like frogs and dragonflies? That really depends on the person. I like to add any plant I can and see how it does. It stays if I like it. That's how I learn. So for me I'd try any plant, and I'd try it different ways...in water, in soil, in sun, in shade, etc., to learn how it grows. Duckweed is a plant fish will eat directly, but after they've eaten it all it's gone. So if you want an on going duckweed food source you have to protect some or easier imo is growing it in a separate shallow pond. But a more important food source is all the life in a pond, mainly insects. They eat the plants and the fish eat the insects. So all plants really feed fish indirectly. Dead, rotting plant material feeds insects the best. But many people don't like that in their pond...so it's really best to decide what kind of pond you want...Wildlife Pond, Water Garden or Koi Pond. That determines how plants are used. You can try one and if you don't like it you can change to another pretty easy or some pond in between. the water looks a little murky. (BONUS QUESTION) Is there any way to clean that up? It's pretty simple to clear up water but only after you know what's causing it to be murky which is the complex part. There are lots of filters and methods to removing different things so the filter has to be matched to the stuff being removed. One pretty universal murky clear is a 24/7 drip water change system. A drip emitter runs 24/7 into the pond and an overflow takes away the extra water. I plan on heading over to a local park nearby and yanking out a couple of cattails and whatever else I find interesting, I highly doubt it's illegal and the poor little stream that leads to the enormous carp pond is choking with all the vegetation. (OH! I know that these plants will probably have other bacteria and algae and critters on or in it, is there any way to clean them without killing them? There are chemical baths you can use, including chlorine and similar oxidizers. They aren't super effective imo. The question is do you want to do that or are all these critters something you want? You see this goes back to deciding what kind of pond you want. A Koi Pond owner with thousands of dollars worth of koi would never allow any plant within 10' of their pond. Their focus is koi and the risk of pathogen form plant would be unacceptable. At the other end of the pond spectrum a Wildlife Pond owner would welcome all those "pathogens". It's a matter of perspective. To these pond keepers "pathogen" is just another name for "life". That's what natural ponds are, life. Stuff killing and eating other stuff. I want to make sure the plants are settled before getting fish, but I heard that a certain string? Algae is a pain to get rid of, does that grow in zone 9?) You don't get rid of algae, you control it. Just like you weed a garden. Algae grows in all zones, from the poles to the equator. There are thousands of species. ...since I live in zone 9 in one of the cities that borders the Rio Grande, Does anyone have any recommendations for the type of plants I might want to scavenge for, how to transport and transplant them from the stream into my pond, and what no-no plants I should try to avoid? Giant Reed, Arundo donax, is a spectacular plant you can probably find. It's an aggressive grower, makes bamboo look like Pussy Willow. I don't believe there is such a thing as a no-no plant. They're plants, you're a human. I have to assume you can win any battle. Ponds are just like any garden. If you tend it you win. If you go away and come back in a year the plants win. (If I find any I kind of want some duckweed... is this a no-no plant? Will keeping the growth at bay turn into an overwhelming hassle for my medium-small sized pond?) Depends on how much hassle you consider keeping a pond is. For me it's a joy. And whether your fish.eat it. I want goldfish!! I hear commits are really friendly, but what other species can I add? Can someone supply a list? Oh, and how many can I add? (I was thinking about 6-8 fish total) Common, Comets, Shubunkin, Wakin. The fancy kinds can look a little out of place. I've had some of these because friends need to get rid of "pets" sometimes. They look a little odd to me when mixed with other kinds. Like when you feed them the others swim over fast and the Fantail seems to struggle to swim 10'. But the fancy ones seemed to do fine but need exact protection from streams, skimmers, etc., as they're not strong swimmers.. The Common, Comets and Shubunkin are also often crossed. Like a Comets and Shubunkin to get a Shubunkin with a long tail. Commons get the biggest, more than 12" and over 3' sometimes although these may be koi crosses. (Even numbers so they can have a buddy system, but not like Nohas ark, they can only be friends!! No babies!!... okay maybe a few so I can add them to future smaller water features around the garden...) You can post a sign explaining breeding rules but goldfish are either not very good readers or not very good rule followers (even worst than teenagers). which leads me to the after thought question... Can different species of goldfish mate? I mean.. they are still goldfish... Yes. When different kinds of goldfish breed the result is considered a goldfish too. Goldfish can also breed with koi. I know that bottom feeders won't eat all the gunk that will eventually fill the bottom, (I can't blame them) But are there any fish that I can add that will eat the bottom pellets? (Like catfish maybe, or something cooler/cuter) Pellets, as in sinking food pellets? Goldfish, koi, catfish, pretty much any fish will eat food on the bottom. There are terms like "bottom feeder" but that's just a general type thing. Like catfish will spend most of their time on the bottom but will eat food on the surface just like a goldfish or koi. And they will come a running when they see you just like goldfish and koi. As for gunk...bacteria lives there, bugs too which eat the bacteria, bigger bugs that eat the smaller bugs and fish root around in there looking for bugs to eat. It's a whole cycle thing. Gunk on the pond bottom is basically soil, or stuff on it's way to becoming soil. Nothing removes it completely, just like nothing removes soil completely. Stuff lives in it, eats some growing in it, breaks it down into better and better soil (from a plant's perspective). Oh, and is Walmart a smart place to buy these babies at? (I'm sure most are familiar with the store...) My only other option is PetCo... Are they a good option? I don't want to buy bad fish... but I would feel terrible if I had to take a fish back because it was sick or it got the others sick... There not really anything like a "good" store to by goldfish. Here's how it wroks. The store orders fish from a grower. The grower has a bunch of ponds with different kinds of fish. The grower puts a bunch of fish into a box and sends it to the store. The store dumps the box of fish into a big tank. An employee gets a net and scoops out a few of the the prettier fish and puts these into separate tanks. Like for instance some Shubunkins would go into a tank labeled "Shubunkin $4.95". And some orange and white Comets will often be labeled "Sarasa $4.95" even though they aren't actually Sarasa. The rest in the big tank are labeled "Feeder Goldfish 20 for $1". When customers buy $4.95 fishes the clerks grab a net and scoop a few more nicer looking fish out of the feeder tank and into the $4.95 tanks. People just assume when they see 10 fish in a nice aquarium at eye level that they must be higher quality and healthier fish than the horrible feeder fish tank. It's just marketing and logistics. You can often find very nice looking Shubunkins and Comets in the feeder tank. It just depends on what they get in. Growers don't care since it's just as easy to grow Commons or Comets or Shubunkins. They'll send whatever they have. The fancy goldfish may be shipped in separate containers. This is not to say all fish are healthy. In my experience 50% of feeder fish died in the first 24 hours. And in most stores they also don't last long either. Yes, you can quarantine them, you can treat them for parasites, etc. Depends on the kind of pond you want to keep. Most ponds I've had I only used feeder goldfish. Set up a quarantine tank and buy $10 worth of meds to treat $1 worth of fish...not me. I just put them into the pond and hope for the best. But that's me. I do want to hand feed my fish. I know the risks of them getting hurt by other animals but I have 3 small dogs that scare away all cats and wild animals, but are really just yapping balls of harmless fur. Pretty much all kinds of fish can be trained to be hand fed. Takes them a few times to get the idea but once they do they're trained. The 3 small dogs...I hate to impugn the K9 reputation for diligence but all that yapping..yeah, that's mostly for your benefit. When you're not around and the Herons are having brunch the dogs are really unlikely to do more than blink at the carnage. The Herons aren't hurting anything...it's not like they're doing something horrible like squeezing a squeaky toy. They're just eating all of your fish. Big woop. Now if the dogs happen to hear you at the front door then sure, they'll be off like a rocket to tear that Heron a new beak, jumping through plate glass windows, busting down doors, whatever it takes to impress you and keep those treats flowing.

i could robably send you a little package of plants. i have some hyacinth. that is all i have that you listed. but i could also put some umbrella palm, salvinia, maybe water snowflake - that looks like miniature water lillies.. i have a few things that you may like. then maybe you could throw some seeds of something my way for return? i don't know what i am looking for, or what i want, so i'd let you decide on that..lol... i live on the gulf in florida, so i am sure you would know what would grow in this sand and heat... let me know if you are interested. beth

I will be waiting to see it. You can either embed the photos from an online website such as Photobucket or put a link to your album below the box where you type the message.