Kevin, let me get this straight. Are you telling us that V. 'Cardinal', 'Crimsontide', 'Indian Summer' and 'Red Regal' will all pollinate 'Blue Muffin'?
Just want to be sure.

They are all blooming together here in Northern Illinois, along with 'Little Joe', 'Red Feathers', V. molle, and V. rafinesquianum. So to answer your question, yes, it would appear all of the above would be decent to use for increasing fruit production via cross polination.

Went ahead and planted the Chicago Lustre in the small spot cuz it was so pretty there!...may be a big mistake...! Had already planted a Blue Muffin...I guess it will remain to be seen if these bloom at the same here in Central Illinois. I am assuming that if your viburnum can be pollinated by another in the neighborhood, that it is okay if they are separated in your yard?

'Raspberry Tart', V. deamii, 'Fireworks', and 'Moonglow' are all blooming at the same time for me. The later group, including 'Autumn Jazz' and 'Northern Burgundy' are just about ready to bloom.

"The later group, including 'Autumn Jazz' and 'Northern Burgundy' are just about ready to bloom."

WOW! I'm just outside Chicago and my 3 Autumn Jazz bushes have long since bloomed...so long ago, that the birds have already eaten 90% of the tiny green(non-ripe)berries.

Surprised at the significant difference in time...and order (my Blue muffin is in bloom now).

Regards,
M.J.

I am not much on proper names of plants. I have a question regarding Lantana. Are there different kinds? Mine does not bush, it just kinda lays next to the ground. I love the flower but don't know much about care. Mine has small clusters of flowers. I have seen some that are taller and more of a shrub. Help please. Thanks Nan

Nan,
I believe that you are referring to the annual/perennial plant known as Lantana. The plant that might have been mentioned in this thread is Viburnum lantana which is a woody shrub and not related to the plant that you are requesting the information for.

Are the flowers on your lantana yellow and/or red etc.? If so, you might want to post your question in the perennials or annuals forum. If the flowers on your plant match the flowers in the link below, then you should post your question in the perennials forum.
Good luck,
Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:242835}}

Hi,
My dentatum Chicago lustre is going to start to bloom.
All the other viburnums I have are done.
Which variety do I need to get to pollinate it?
Thanks,
Terri

Bump

For terri28907 z7 WA: if you can find one of the other Chicagoland Grows promoted Viburnum dentatum clones, or another from the upper Midwest, you should have an appropriate partner. These clones include the following:

Chicago Lustre (you've got it)
Autumn Jazz
Northern Burgundy
Cardinal
Crimson Tide
Perle Bleu
Red Regal

There are probably a few more, but less easy to find. Check with any of the well-known mailorder retailers to find these, or maybe your garden center/big box retailer may stock them from a major wholesale container grower.

OK. I posted this in another place and here found the right thread. Here is my problem--I also have just become a new growerofvirburnums (NewGOV). I planted 5 trilobum 'compactum' last fall to have in our bird garden in front of the house. This spring they leafed out beautifully and densely on bushes about 2' high--but no blooms,not one. Is this normal for the first year after fall planting?? And if I want alot of fruit, then I need another virburnum that blooms at the same time--a trilobum different type --alfredo maybe? or one of the opulus? Do I have it right? And how close do these need to be planted to these 5? Thanks!

Berries on the Species Viburnum dentatum in my yard turning blue already.

And now the berries are gone, eaten up by the Catbirds and Mockingbirds.

Can anyone give me info on a viburnum called "pragnese"?Size,spread,berries etc?

Don't want this thread gone yet either! My V. dentatums still have green leaves with just afew getting some yellow coloring at the edges. Seems late to me considering the local Oak trees all have dropped there leaves aleady. But then the local cut leaf maples still have most of their leaves and my other Viburnums such as 'Wentworth' still has all leaves also!

Just a bumpin'

ncmtnmama:

Only 6 months late, but here is an answer to your question "I planted 5 trilobum 'compactum' last fall to have in our bird garden in front of the house. This spring they leafed out beautifully and densely on bushes about 2' high--but no blooms,not one. Is this normal for the first year after fall planting?? And if I want alot of fruit, then I need another virburnum that blooms at the same time--a trilobum different type --alfredo maybe? or one of the opulus? Do I have it right? And how close do these need to be planted to these 5?"

V. trilobum 'Compactum' is a mixed up plant, probably consisting of a number of clones hiding under the same name. Some flower and fruit, some never flower. Give them a year or two to see if they produce flowers. If not, you have the sterile variety. If so, any other V. trilobum, V. opulus, V. sargentii, or V. orientale should do the job, planted withing pollinating range(100'? 200'? more?). Closer would be better of course.

What is the best looking and fastest growing viburnum without growing into a giant. (for my zone) Thanks

Viburnum dentatum

Kevin, what is Vib. "Bailey's Compact?" Is this a trilobum? Is it the same as "Compactum?" I really like this wonderful, understated little shrub. Tough as nails too.

Scott

Scott--yes, a V. trilobum. Supposedly different from 'Compactum'.

The V.dentatum are always the last to leaf out in my garden. Most of my other viburnums are greening up, but not the arrowoods.

Bump da' baby

Couldn't believe my luck at Home Depot today!!!! I bought 'Chigago Lustre' and 'Autumn Jazz' for $6.95 apiece. Really nice little shrubs almost in flower. They are way ahead of anything I have here now. I figgure from being forced in a greenhouse or down south but both should flower at the same time so they can pollinate each other.

Wasn't really going to add any more V. dentatum as I thought I had enough but I couldn't leave those shrubs behind. I swear as soon as I got near those display racks with the Viburnums those shrubs just started calling me to take them home! I thought they were so eager that they practicaly jumped into my cart themselves.

I read on the labels they can get big, 10-12 feet. And I know from some of the other dentatum here that they can grow fast. I have the perfect spot for them, were they can go as high as they want in back of some scraggly Azalea shrubs I have in a border next to my driveway.

So now I have V. dentatum -
Chicago Lustre
Autumn Jazz
Northern Burgany
Blue Muffin
Red Feather (2)
Blue Pearl (6)
Species, very late blooming (2)
Another Species (1) that bloomed after the first two last year (bought from a different source at a different time).

I hope everything gets berries this year!!!!!

Hmmm, I was at HD just yesterday too. I looked all over specifically for viburnums and found none. Maybe I'll try again this weekend. I did, however, pick up 'Northern Burgandy' at Lowes on Weds. A nice 2 gallon 30" tall specimen for $14!.

Now I have 'Autumn Jazz', 'Chicago Lustre' and 'Northern Burgandy' in the same bed. Hopefully they will cross pollinate as all have abundant flower buds on them.

Yes, I saw the same two viburnums Chicago Lustre and Autumn Jazz at HD and bought them, too. I first thought that they would all be the same clone but looked anyway.

They had just a few plants tucked away. They should have been displayed more prominently

bump

Here is a picture of 'Raspberry Tart' where you can see how a dwarf V. dentatum grows differently, with a more spreading habit vs. the straight-up branching of your typical V. dentatum. This is a nice little plant, by the way.
{{gwi:242836}}

I have ordered Autumn Jazz and Blue Muffin and I think I may have made a mistake in size especially for the Autumn Jazz. Thought it was going to be smaller for some reason. I want to have it in my front yard and I am worried that it might get too big for the area. Is it OK to trim them to keep them smaller. I saw that they bloom on old wood so is there any way I can trim them so that I won't lose the flowers and fruit. Is there a good time to do it? I know I won't be doing any trimming for a while but just wonder if it could be cut back before I make a decision on where to plant it. Thanks

Beautiful shrub Kevin. Can you offer a pollination partner for it?

With room running out on this excellent thread, I thought I'd add the Viburnum dentatum and allies 2005 central KY bloom sequence to date. Certainly, another thread could be started but this current list can go into all the logs that are being saved on this wonderful plant.

The plants are listed from earliest blooming to latest, as they are behaving here in Scott County KY as I type.

IN BLOOM (OR VERY WHITE BUDS)
Crimson Tide; started 5/14
Blue Muffin; 5/17
Red Regal; 5/17
Cardinal; 5/18
V. rafinesquianum (KY source); 5/18
Chicago Lustre; 5/18
Indian Summer; 5/20
Perle Bleu; 5/20

STILL IN GREEN BUD, BUT NEAR BLOOM (imagine cat spreading paws)
Autumn Jazz
Northern Burgundy
Moonglo
var. deamii
Blue Blaze
Fireworks
Tecumseh
Tonawanda
V. bracteatum Emerald Luster

STILL VERY TIGHT BUDS (imagine cauliflower head)
Little Joe
Red Feather
**NOTE** The above two I just acquired from a northern IL source, so they are not going to be in sequence this year; Kevin et al with older plants may be able to list them in the correct group this year.

NO FLOWER BUDS IN 2005; NEXT YEAR
Papoose
Raspberry Tart
V. bracteatum
seedlings originating at VV
and clones yet to be named...

I hope that this list is matched by Kevin and others with collections, and that it is a beginning in sorting out the issue of what blooms with what, and approximately in what order so that ANYONE can have successful arrowwood fruiting.

Thanks to all who've participated in this effort.

Hi, Viburnumites, Re: Pollinators. Will be happy to compose table if forum users want to mail me the info. Suggest table headings:

Latin Name Common Name Zone Bloom Date Known Pollinator

Do we need additional info? Please advise, thanks. LT

I purchased a Michael Dodge while living in TN, spring 2004. I dug it up (Dec. 2004) and brought it with me to IL. It started to bud this spring, then we had the late freeze and it appears to be dead. Is it??

Well, reaching 100 doesn't necessarily mean having to say you're sorry (to see a good thread go).

This was a fun thread to review, with almosts three years of posts (and counting). The evolution of the discussion is rewarding, with the travails and eventual solutions each coming in turn. I'll be interested to see if original contributors will post again, to relate current conditions and experiences.

I'm going to add some long lists here; these will include bloom sequences (tracked in KY) AND an update of Kevin's original lists of V. dentatum and friends (with known clonal and trademark names, and originator of the plants).

The V. dentatum family and friends list (from Feb 2003), repeated with a few additions:

V. bracteatum
V. bracteatum 'Emerald Luster'(named by Dr. Michael Dirr)
V. rafinesquianum
V. rafinesquianum var. affine
V. deamii (also V. dentatum var. deamii)
V. molle
V. molle f. leiophyllum
V. recognitum
V. dentatum var. lucidum (V. recognitum)
V. dentatum var. scabrellum
V. dentatum var. verrosum
V. dentatum var. pubescens
V. dentatum var. dentatum

V. d. clones with trademark or registered name, ('cultivar name'); originator or introducer if known

Autumn Jazz ('Ralph Senior'); Chicagoland Grows
Chicago Lustre ('Synnestvedt'); Chicagoland Grows
Northern Burgundy ('Morton'); Chicagoland Grows
Blue Muffin ('Christom'); Christom Farms Nursery, WI
Red Feather ('J. N. Select'); Johnson's Nursery, WI
Cardinal ('KLMthree'); Beaver Creek Nursery, IL/WI
Crimsontide ('KLMsix'); Beaver Creek Nursery, IL/WI
Indian Summer ('KLMeight'); Beaver Creek Nursery, IL/WI
Little Joe ('KLMseventeen'); Beaver Creek Nursery, IL/WI
Red Regal ('KLMseven'); Beaver Creek Nursery, IL/WI
Blue Blaze ('Blubzam'); Lake County Nursery, OH
Fireworks (Firzam?); Lake County Nursery, OH
Papoose (Papzam?); Lake County Nursery, OH
Pathfinder (Patzam); Lake County Nursery, OH
Raspberry Tart (Rastzam?); Lake County Nursery, OH
Saratoga (Sarzam?); Lake County Nursery, OH
Tecumseh (Teczam?); Lake County Nursery, OH
Tonawanda (Tonzam?); Lake County Nursery, OH
'Moon Glow'
'Perle Bleu'
'White and Blue'
'Canby Downy Viburnum (pubescens? V. d. var. canbyi?)

Enough for one post.

Thou must be bumped.

I've really been enjoying reading your comments about the various types of v. dentatum!
I live 35 miles inland from the Gulf in southeast Mississippi, and I had HUGE damage to my 5 1/2 wooded acres in Hurricane Katrina. I used to have a dense, very shady woods with real tall trees - now there's a lot more sun! I'm working along with a hired crew to clean the fallen trees out. I'm in the process of trying to figure out which viburnums to add - I love them all, since the berries are such a hit with birds and squirrels. I had viburnum ashe or v. dentatum var. ashe growing on the west and north sides of my house, but the workmen pulled out all the shrubs on the north side when they were taking out the piles of tree trunks in the area. V. ashe is like the regular v. dentatum, but the leaves are considerably smaller, and the bloom clusters are smaller but more numerous than v. dentatum. I bought and planted v. ashe instead of v. dentatum, because I just happened to find it for sale at a native plant nursery in Louisiana - it's native to the coastal counties just south of here, and it grows on my property prolifically. I find seedlings everywhere!
I've ordered some evergreen blueberries to plant on the north side of the house in their place, but I want to add a lot of viburnums to my now sunnier woods. Of course I'll dig up many of the v. ashe seedlings that I find, grow them in a container, and then transplant them when they're big enough to to recover from the possible loss of some of their leaves due to browsing deer. I've ordered 2 v. rufidulums - I need more small trees, but I can't decide which v. dentatums to order. I've got a native v. dentatum - large leaf - that came up on its own several years ago near the house, and the greater abundance of sunshine should help it to bloom more. Should I just try to root v. dentatums from this volunteer native, or do you think there are some cultivars that I should order?
V. nudum is also native to this area, but it only grows naturally along creeks. I've got a watershed/hollow on my property which is usually a flowing stream about 4 months of the year and wet most of the rest of the year, only drying out during the very driest summers. 'Winterthur' is the cultivar that's available through most mail-order nurseries - is it really smaller than the species?
Any suggestions you have as to what species or cultivars of species I should plant would be appreciated - I'm in zone 8b.
Thanks!
Sherry

Hi Sherry,

I will defer to the other more learned folks on this site about your situation. If I "bump" this thread up, maybe Kevin or Viburnum Valley can answer your question.

Betsy

Double V is no longer here at GW. Kevin, I believe, is still here occasionally.

I've already ordered my viburnums, and I've potted them up in containers big enough for them to grow in until they get enough size that they could survive having a lot of their leaves eaten by deer or rabbits, and big enough that a deer couldn't step on the whole plant. I've got 4 v. dentatums (species) - 2 from north Florida and 2 from Tennessee - and I plan on trying again to root a couple more from the v. dentatum that's growing here, a volunteer. The leaves on the v. dentatums from all 3 states look just alike, but I've read on this forum that it's good to have unrelated plants to increase fruit set, so it can't hurt to have plants from varied provenance.
I also ordered 3 v. rufidulums, which are growing very fast in their containers, and I'll probably dig up some of the v. ashe seedlings that are coming up EVERYWHERE and grow them in containers to plant later. One of the v. nudums that used to grow in the bottom of the hollow has resprouted - I hope the deer or rabbits don't eat it, because I can't figure out a good way to protect it. I've got some Deer Off - I'll try spraying it with that.
Viburnums are great, because, in addition to being wonderful plants for wildlife, they're SO easy to grow!
Sherry

What happened to VV? Does he post at another forum?

Yes, VV has moved to on to Dave's.

Bump...the good viburnum information...

I'm SOOOO excited! My Autumn Jazz and Blue Muffin both have blooms forming at the same rate and time!!! YIPPEEE

Hi,

If I get a single Viburnum lentago, will it at least produce some fruit? Some sites claim it is self-fertile, and others reject this view; I think the truth is that some fruit will be produced. All I want is some.

Steve

just like you, birds need the basics�"food, water, and shelter. Give them these staples, and theyâÂÂll be more than happy to visit your yard and perhaps stay awhile. But to provide birds with a true haven, remember that diversity is the key. Grow a variety of plants, such as those suggested here, to serve birds with a healthy menu of their favorite dishes.
-----------------------------
fchris

Here is a link that might be useful: Online Dating

Hi,

Can I plant a Viburnum lentago (Nannyberry Viburnum) [or Amelanchier canadensis, for that matter] on a shallow-soil location that has only 9" soil above the bed rock? I live in zone 6b and I'm concerned that the roots will not be deep enough to escape the freezing temperatures that can temporarily dip down to around 5 bellow 0 F.

Would this be an acceptable situation for a viburnum?

(I'm actually going to plant two of these right next to eachother so that they insculate [bond], forming a mutually fertilizing pair).

Hi,
I need some experienced advice based on the spread/growth habit of Viburnum lentago (ÂNannyberry ViburnumÂ).
I want to plant two Viburnum lentago shrubs in my yard - I need two to ensure fruiting. I know that (under optimal conditions, when left naturally as a multiple-trunk shrub as IÂll grow them) Viburnum lentago can reach around 18Â to 20Âtal; IÂm not sure of the spread on a 20Â tall specimen, but I think it would be around 10Â to 15Â?
My situation is this:
I have a single 12Â gap in my landscape and a separate 7Â gap (which is in heavy shade). I could either both shrubs in the 12Â gap or one shrub in the 12Â gap and the other shrub in the 8Â gap.
1. If I grow the two shrubs in the 12 gap (allowed 6 spread each), would they still grow to a tall height? I want them to grow tall for privacy and I read from one source that when their spread is restricted, they do not grow as large  I hope that not as large means not as wide, net not restricting the height.
2. If I grow only one of the two shrubs in the 12Â gap, will the other shrub out-of-view grown in a tight 7Â gap in heavy shade produce too few flowers that not much pollination between the two.
3. If I plant the two in the 12Â gap only 1Â apart, would the two root systems inosculate (fuse, natural graft) so that, in effect, one shrub would be formed that bares flowers from both originals.
4. If I plant the two 4Â apart and give them a little more spread (opening the gap to 15Â total), maybe since they can spread out freely on opposing ends and only have dense mutual shade in between them.
5. Would you recommend I leave one in the 12Â gap and leave the other in the small 7Â shaded spot in the corner of the yard, but remove scion wood from the second to be grafted onto the first? I would hope that grafting viburnum spp is not difficult, although I would imagine that this might require some upkeep since they are always putting out more suckers and perhaps crowding out old ones.
Thanks,
Steve

So, to recap, I need two for cross-pollination for fruiting, and I would like at least one of the two to grow around 18Â tall.

I want the Viburnum lentago shrubs to take up a lot of space. Ideally, I'd like them to grow 12' wide by 10 to 12' tall after decades of maturity, but I'm afraid that they will grow 12' wide by 20' tall.

I would plant them 12' apart - two of them in partial sun against a fence. I hope it's that V. lentago will grow taller only when given full room... maybe I better place them closer together - like 6' apart. I do not want to have to prune them; I'm into natural landscapes and want to work-out an arrangement conducive to the trees natural expression of growth habit. I want them as understory shrubs, so if they get taller then 12', I wont be able to pick fruit from the native fruit tree that they will be under.

Thanks,
Steve

I have BM and was looking for mate and ran across this site..

Is this info complete sales rubbish then?? Seems to contradict everything about same species/bloom for cross pollination!

http://www.waysidegardens.com/gardening/PD/41841/

The Perfect Pollinator for All Your Viburnums:

A superb shrub in its own right, with fragrant blooms, berries, and fall foliage changes.
'Winterthur' has been an enduring favorite since its 1961 introduction, both as an ornamental Viburnum in its own right and as a reliable pollinator. Enjoy its blooms, berries, and fall color to the fullest, but don't be surprised if neighboring Viburnums throughout your garden begin to flower and fruit more heavily as well!
...
And while 'Winterthur' is showing off, it is also pollinating Cardinal CandyÂ, Blue MuffinÂ, and every other Viburnum in its vicinity. Most Viburnums will set flowers and fruit even if grown solo, but they are far more productive if grown near a pollinator. 'Winterthur' is the perfect candidate to beautify the entire Viburnum garden. Zones 5-9.

I am not God...lol...but I would say that's rubbish. My experience has been that Winterthur blooms much later than my v. dentatums do.

I have BM and purchased an Autumn Jazz - planted them literally right next to each other...touching.

LOADS of berries. They bloom right on time w/ each other and for 3 years, berries galore. Autumn Jazz is gorgeous in the fall, as well.

Stick with another dentatum, for sure!