I don't remember your post from last year so I'm lost about the pump but head measurement would be figured only to the top of the pipe. The falling water is all gravity and doesn't count. Where is the inlet for the pump located? What kind of filter is there? It looks like the 350 would be close to accurate. Sandy

amalgamation,
A few questions before we can start to help you. Can we get better pictures of the external pump box? With the pond full is there any water in the external pump box? How large a diameter is the tiny pipe at the base of the falls?
I would not change the fountain that is in the center of the pond as I think when it is running will be a perfect fit for this pond. I would guess that by looking at the pictures that the flow rate is going to be low enough that the dynamic head will be close to zero so only the static head becomes a factor. In this case that would be the height of the 3" pipe above the surface of the pond.
Mike

Thank you for your reply SleeplessInFtWayne.

Is head measurement from the bottom of the pond to the top of the pipe? Does the fact that some of the water will be leaking out from the second saucer, underneath the top, make any difference? (This is one of the questions driving us crazy, and that no one selling pumps can answer.)

I dont understand about the inlet, unless you mean where does the water get sucked out of the pond and then go up the pipe? If so, check that first pic again  Near the bottom it says, "Tiny pipe to pump?" Right near the question mark is a very short (maybe 5" to 6") white PVC pipe going into the cement.

Both this and the metal large pipe go under the cement and seem to end in the external pump.

Right now, we donÂt have any filter. Which is why the water is all murky and we need to get the pump flowing at the very least :)

I'm glad to hear the water measurement is probably correct! Whoohoo!

Thanks again for your help!

-A

Hi Mike,

Yes, Ill get some better pics of the external pump tomorrow (Sunday) and post them.

There is no water in the external pump box when the pond is full.

I think the small pipe is about 1.5 inches diameter, but will try to measure more

accurately tomorrow. We cant down in there now, but I know our shopvac fit snugly

inside of it, and can measure that.

I dont understand what you mean about the head. Do you know somewhere online where I

can read more about the difference between static and dynamic head?

Thanks for your help!

-A

I needed a pump for a bubbling rock water feature and everyone I asked gave me a different size pump.....So, I made sure the one I bought could be returned if it didn't pump enough or way too much. I purchased from pondliner.com and did have to return the first pump. It cost me shipping but it was worth it.

Their prices were great too.

You measure from the bottom of the pond to the top of the pipe.

Can the pipe be straightened out?

You aren't going to need a huge pump for that. Get a mag drive, they last longer and use less electricity.

A
Static head is how high the water has to be pumped. It is measured from the surface of the pond to the top of the fountain. Dynamic head is the amount head that is caused by the fiction of the water moving thru the piping system.

What makes your fountain look so nice is the fact that it was built so the pipe is at an angle so do not try to straighten the pipe out.

Mike

First I'm going to try uploading just the pix, because I've been having a really hard time logging in to Gardenweb!

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Those pics are pretty scary, eh? They had something like a light switch inside! Everything is decaying, so we cant even tell a name brand, never mind how much it pumped!

buyorsell888

Im so glad you wrote! We had been wondering about pondliner.com since we were thinking about ordering our drip system from them :)

Theres no way that pipe is going anywhere unless it rusts further and just cracks off. Its set in the cement.

Id read that about the mag drives too! At first we wanted a solar setup but its just crazy expensive, which is really too bad since the sun shines here nearly every day.

Thanks for your help!

Mike

Ah, thanks for explaining that. I knew we needed the static measurement, but didnt know/understand about the dynamic measurement. There has to be at least two bends before the crazy setup you see inside the box. One from the fountain to the box, then theres a bend in the pipes from the ground up to whats visible.

Since I was out there measuring, I figured *EVERYTHING* would be measured today! The lizards living in there were not pleased :P

The external pump box is made of cement, with cement floor we think. It has brick in there now, but we think it was just to have the pump higher up.

The box measures 30 ½" x 21" and about 21-22" deep.

The small PVC pipe measures 1" diameter Maybe slightly more.

The metal fountain pipe is:

3" diameter

54 ½" from the bottom of the pond

About 38" from the top of the water to the top of the fountain

About 36" from the bottom to the lower saucer

Saucers measure:

18 ½" across top
16" across bottom

The fountain is 6 feet from the external pump box

OK, even if that doesnt help us here, maybe *someone* selling pumps in Tucson can get a better idea of whats going on in there :)

Thanks so much for your help!

-A

A,
The pump you have is a very old pump that was not meant for a pond. Now the question has to be what is wrong with the pump you? By this I mean is the motor not working or is the pump itself froze up? That pump works by the motor turning which in turn thru the V-belt turns the pump. If you remove the V-belt can you turn the pump by hand?

You won't be able to make the cement box a skimmer or a pump box for a submersible pump without a lot of work. The piping going to this pump is too small to ge much water flow by gravity. The piping looks like it is either 1" or 1 1/4".
Mike

Hi Mike,

Oh, that's bad news. Though not terribly surprising, knowing what the previous owners did with some of the DIY household stuff. :/

Unfortunately, *everything* is rusted *badly*. Some of the metal stuff in there was chipping pieces off in our hands. The belt drive thing was not moving at all, even if it was, I'd be afraid to use it.

Do you think we could cut everything out but the tall pipes coming from the pond and hook up something new, like an external pond pump, to them?

I'm guessing the pipes are all 1", maybe 1 1/4" at the most.

Thanks so much!

-A.

So you have two choices as to how you can get this going again. One would be to use an external pump in your pump vault or a submersible pump in the pond. Let's discuss the submersible pump first. The output would have to be connected to the tiny pipe in the pond and than the two to and from pond pipes would have to be connected together. The problem is that the cord from this pump would have go over the top of the pond edge. The other way would be to connect an external pump where the current pump is. A strainer or filter would have to be placed on the end of the tiny pipe in the pond.
Now how to determine what size pump. With the piping size I would guess the max flow was about 1000 gph but I would guess that they used the gate valve on the output to slow down that flow. One way to see how a 400 gph flow rate would look like would be to close the gate valve on the output pipe on the pump and stick the garden hose into the 3" pipe and turn it on full force. This will allow you to see how 400 gph going over the top plate and so on.
Mike

Hi Mike,

OK, the external pump will probably be the way to go because a cord hanging over the edge of the pond would be too obvious and bleh.

Previously there may have been some sort of simple mesh box over the small pipe because I remember finding something like that in the mass amount of gross stuff pulled out of the swamp that the pond had become.

So, Im guessing that the gate valves are one of those places where theres a handle and a faucet to hook up a hose. Were going to have to soak those down with some WD40 to get them to move!

Whew.

The next few days are crazy here, but by the weekend or Monday, Ill let you know whats happened with the hose experiment :) The tadpoles and fish wont like it, but theyll thank us for it in the end!

We really appreciate your help with this! Thank you!!

The gate valve that I am talking about would be the valve that is on it's side closest to where the pipes come into the pump box.
Mike

Hi Mike,

I think its the red handle you are talking about? Its hard to tell in the pics, but its closer to the corner?

Im so sorry, we havent done *anything* concerning the pond this week, except notice most of the tadpoles seem to be gone :/ and we made a plan on how to test the water (as you suggested) without any mystery stuff that might be lurking in the pipes getting into the pond while we do it. (We filled it for the yearly monsoon toads.)

Things have been too crazed this last week. Our two indoor cats had to go to the vet (one has an ongoing problem with recurring skin cancer), and the two outdoor ones ended up having to go as well. They both had to get teeth out yesterday. In fact, I was still up at around 2am babysitting one of them because he was still out-of-it from the anesthesia and/or in pain and was afraid to go outside.

That said, I should be back by over the weekend. If all the tadpoles are eaten by birds or mosquito fish by then, were just going to drain the pond and work on it like that which should be much easier, but Im really hoping some tadpoles survive!

Thanks again for your help :)

-A

Hi A,
Yes it is the red handled valve in the corner.

Sorry to hear about your cats. I hope they are doing okay.
Mike

Sorry about the kitties.

How's things going? Kitties okay? Figure out the pond stuff??

Hi Mike,

OK, Im glad I understood its the red one. Something right! Whoo

To Mike, buyorsell888, and calamity_j,

The kitties are totally stressed out right now, but I think they'll be OK. The one black cat seen in the pix above, had some teeth pulled, but he seemed almost fine the next day.

His brother on the other hand - totally freaked out. The anesthesia didn't wear off, he was scared, and probably in pain all night, so I stayed up with him. Ever since, he's been sleeping in kitchen nightly, which is unusual for him. (The outside boys aren't allowed in any further than the kitchen - long story).

The girls indoors - well the one with recurring cancer is acting very needy and wanted to be close *all the time* *every minute of the day*. I cant blame her, shes stressed. Shes had a several surgeries and doesnt like the vet much at all As you can imagine.

The other girl had to have some tests, but after a few days, we found they all turned out all right. Shes still feeling a bit crabby with us about having been taken to, The Awful Place. (She holds a grudge, as many of you with kitties will probably know what I mean!)

Thanks for asking and well wishing. :) Even though the girls are in their senior years now, theyre like my babies and I stop everything when they are ill. Its so hard that they are getting old!

As to the pond, our plan is like something out of a slapstick movie, though we are hoping it might work anyway.

Were going to hook up the hose, as Mike suggests, and weve got a tarp weve put a slit in and will place the fountain through, then duct tape, so that any runoff from inside the pipes and fountain gets funneled over the tarp and out to the trees not into the somewhat clean pond water.

Its about 105-110 degrees out there today and neither of us are looking forward to working on it!

Hey there,

Still here, just not able to get out there and do anything with the pond. It's been over 110 degrees and when I did get out there, I nearly fainted - right *in* to the pond. Not good. I hate when it gets this hot - We can't even sit out in the yard!

Usually we have a bit of rain in July to cool things down - but the heat has just been merciless! Drought stinks :(

I haven't checked our outdoor thermometer today, but it does seem a few degrees cooler, which I hope is the case over the next week or so as we need to get out there and do the pond *and* some gardening stuff.

TTYL,

-A.

Here's a link with instructions on how to build a pond filter, hope this helps!

Thanks mandarinmint!

Update:

It's finally looking like it might rain a bit (and cool off a few degrees), so we can get out there and work on the pump situation - Without my fainting in the pond :)

-A.