Carrie, This is exactly what we observe here with Teas too. Teas are not resistant to BS in my climate, but if you spray them they are healthy and survives winters fine. However, if you let them defoliate, they get weak and winter cold kills them.
Olga

I'm confused.
Olga, are you talking about HT's too?
Carrie, that is a rough consequence and I'm sorry you lost the ones you liked! Spraying is a pain sometimes.

Carla

I was reading about just this scenario the other evening in the 1917 American Rose Annual, of all places. I made a note to use this info if I could, because it's so concise and easy to understand.

"The disease is most destructive during the summer. Affected plants become defoliated prematurely, and leaf-buds which should remain dormant until the next year open late in the season. As a result of this defoliation, the plants may blossom poorly or not at all during the following year. Also, due to the late-season growth, the plants do not enter the winter in a ripened condition and are thus more susceptible to frost-injury." - 1917 American Rose Annual, page 97.

This tells me that it is very important to choose resistant varieties if you're not going to have a spray program, or to spray to keep leaves on the roses you love that are not resistant.

Connie

I have experienced the same thing with HTs, Teas, and China varieties.

"As a result of this defoliation, the plants may blossom poorly or not at all during the following year."
Huh,
I wonder if I'll see a reduction in bloom?

My Austins - some did just fine no-spray, but others (particularly the red ones) were complete messes. NONE of them died or died back over winter... Just the HTs and Fls. I could see though how teas and chinas could do that if they were not disease resistant in my area.

You know it's also odd because this is Texas for goodness sake! We don't have a winter like you guys do. And for these to die because of the cold? How on earth do they overwinter for you guys up north?

I have lost roses from winter kill and they were usually ones that were susceptible to powdery mildew and black spot. In fact, that is one of the reasons I started spraying regularly beause one winter I lost 3 roses. Also, were these body bag HTs or do you know if they were virused? That could also be a problem.

Some roses are tender even in my zone. I just started pruning my Zepherine Drouhin and it had a lot of dead canes. It has each year. Just doesn't like the cold.

I was talking about Teas, not HTs. But the pattern is the same for all tender roses, I just don't grow that many HTs these days.
Olga

No, they weren't body bags and they weren't virused as far as I could tell. But it wasn't just 3! I've gone, over the past couple of years, from having approximately 30% HTs and Fls, to having maybe 9, some of which have good genes and better bs resistance. Some of the moderns died, some were killed, and many many teas are waiting in the wings as replacements.
But I wanted to keep the fragrant ones ...
Can't have my cake (not spraying) and eat it too!

I don't think I would, either.

Instead, I would grow the things I can't grow well here. Most of the Hybrid Perpetuals, lovely Bourbons, and other things that really need some winter chill -- and cannot flourish here in La-La Land.

Jeri

Olga, when we had that horrible late freeze, my teas surprised me and did not die. Actually the only thing that froze/fried was the new tender growth. Roses were fine but not hydrangeas.

Carla

I'm very interested in no-spray gardening. Can anyone recommend a no-spray garden (anywhere in the country) that I could visit in late summer/early fall to see what a well-tended no-spray rose garden actually looks like if zone-friendly varieties are planted?

Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia, SC has a no spray old rose garden. It can get a bit sparse in the heat of the summer, but the roses seem to do well. A cemetery like Hollywood in Richmond Va is by default no spray. Not a true rose garden of course, but it has lots of OGR.

Also in the east the no spray garden in Asheville NC maintained by the Asheville Blue Ridge Rose Society at the Red Cross building, just off Merriman Avenue (US 25E).
Jean's garden in Nashville TN.
Parts of my garden near Knoxville TN (esp the species roses).

I'm not sure the status of some of the major Canadian Rose gardens; I have heard that a lot of -cides used this side of our shared border aren't available up there.

My garden here in Roanoke. It is still a young garden, but I have about 250 roses now (with another 48 on order for this spring) of all classes. I didn't spray at all last year and so far everyone has made it through.

Actually, I've haven't lost any roses to winter. It's the sudden late spring freezes, after the plants have started to leaf out, that has killed plants for me. I've lost a few teas and Ht's and one baby china that way.