Anyone in Zone 6 & 7 - input on the size of these roses?

12 years ago

Hey everyone,
So I had finished ordering all of my spring roses and had spent the last week sketching out the beds{{gwi:807}} and measuring spaces for all of them. Then I read michaelg's last post on Frederic Mistral getting huge in his zone which contradicted the space I put him in as HMF only lists him getting 35" wide.

I had estimated size by nursery websites, HMF, and what size those types of roses had grown in my garden previously. However, that still does not beat real life experiences.

So if you are in Zone 6 and/or 7, I would appreciate your input on the size of the following roses. I am mostly interested in knowing whether something is significantly smaller/bigger than one would expect for the rose. Also, any random experiences I would not know unless I grew the rose would be great (for example, the fact that Prospero does not like hard pruning is not something I would know without experiences from people on this forum.)

I am in zone 6b in central PA with acidic clay soil. I would love input from anyone in zone 7 as well as 6 as I live in an urban subdivision and the winter temperature is almost no different than when I lived in southern virginia a few years ago.

This will save me a lot of time moving roses in the future so I appreciate it.

It is a long list. All on Dr. Huey unless otherwise specified

Floribundas -
Cinco De Mayo, Koko Loko, Ketchup & Mustard, Brothers Grimm, Sheila's Perfume, Love Song, Angel Face, Blue Bayou (multiflora), Poseidon, Purple Tiger, Loretta Lynn, Sparkle & Shine, Julia Child, Pink Martini, Diadem, Sexy Rexy, Pomponella Fairy Tale (multiflora), Free Spirit (multiflora), Elegant Fairy Tale (multiflora), Black Forest, Oh My!, Archbishop Desmund Tutu (multiflora), Easy Does It, Pure Poetry, Brass Band (own root), Kosmos, Lion's Fairy Tale (multiflora), French Lace, Saratoga (own root), Gruss an Aanchen, Golden Fairy Tale (multiflora),

HTs -
Dark Night, Caribia aka Harry Wheatcroft (own root), Hypnotized, Deep Purple (own root), Neptune, Medallion, Valencia, Ivory Tower (multiflora), Stile 800 (own root), Berolina (multiflora), Peaudouce aka Elina (multiflora), Lemon Spice (own root), Golden Globe (own root), Memorial Day, Big Momma, Francis Meilland, Beverly, Pink Enchantment, Peter Mayle, California Dreamin', Souvenir de Baden Baden (multiflora), Royal Highness (own root), LeAnn Rimes, Electron, Frederic Mistral (own root), Lasting Love, Cinnamon Dolce, Grand Amore, Veterans' Honor, Liebeszauber (multiflora), Red Intuition (multiflora), Ingrid Bergman, Opening Night, Alec's Red, Velvet Fragrance (own root),
Firefighter, Astounding Glory, Voodoo, Moonstone, Pope John Paul II, Domina (multiflora), Tineke, Memoire, Bolero, Classic Woman, Sugar Moon, Paradise Found, Gemini, Bride's{{gwi:807}} Dream (multiflora), Buxom Beauty (multiflora), Martina Mondadori (multiflora),

Grandiflora -
Dick Clark, Fire & Ice, Dream Come True, Coretta Scott King, Rock & Roll, Twilight Zone, Mother of Pearl (own root), Tournament of Roses, Earth Song (own root), Strike It Rich, South Africa aka Golden Beauty (own root), Maria Shriver, Ascot (multiflora), About Face

Austin -
Lady of Shalott, The Shepherdess, Happy Child, Golden Celebration, Molineux, Sophy's Rose, Wildeve, William Shakespeare 2000, The Dark Lady, Mary Rose, Pretty Jessica, Queen of Sweden, Princess Alexandra of Kent, Jubilee Celebration, James Galway (using as a climber), The Alnwick Castle, Queen Anne, Christopher Marlowe, Sir John Betjeman, Harlow Carr, Gentle Hermione, Tess of the D'Urbersville, Prospero, Munstead Wood, Benjamin Britten, Crocus Rose, Windermere, Lichfield Angel,

Shrub -
Cream Veranda (multiflora), Braveheart (own root), Summer Memories (multiflora), Quietness (own root),

Climbers -
Apricot Impressionist, Golden Gate, Laguna, Dublin Bay, Cloud 10, Purple Splash, Rosanna, Roberta Bondar, Salita

Thank you!

This post was edited by Karolina11 on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 23:25

Featured Answer

seil zone 6b MI

12 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

I'm in Michigan on Lake St. Clair just north of Detroit, zone 6b. We have very cold winters and springs and very warm summers and falls because of the lake. That lake makes it very humid all year round as well.

These are the ones you listed that I have experience with.

Flories:

Koko Loco: 2 seasons and in a pot. Wonderful rose! Plant is about 3 by 3 feet and blooms a lot. Wintered well but does black spot some.

Angel Face: OLD! This was one of my mom's and is in the ground at least 40 years. Disease prone but lovely and very fragrant. VERY winter hardy. It's likely to be tall and narrow at about 4 x 2 feet.

Julia Child: 3 seasons and in the ground. Wintered great and has fairly good disease resistance. More compact and spreading at around 3 x 4 feet. Very nice bushy habit.

Easy Does It: I had this rose for two seasons in a pot. It grew backwards and died over it's second winter.

HTs

Ivory Tower: 6 seasons and in a pot. This one gets about 5 feet tall but has a narrow growth habit. Lovely blooms but the thrips love them. Winters fairly well but does black spot.

Memorial Day: 8 years, 5 in a pot and 3 in the ground. TALL! Gets over 6 feet and I've had a couple of seasons where it got over 8 feet! Narrow spread though. Likes to bloom in sprays too. only average disease resistance but good hardiness.

Electron: 6 years in the ground. Not my most vigorous rose. Never tops about 2 feet, slow to repeat and spotty.

Veterans' Honor: 4 years in a pot. Another tall one. Always gets over 6 feet but can also get a good 3 or 4 feet wide too. Average disease resistance, good hardiness, excellent bloom production.

Red Intuition: 5 years in a pot. Gets about 4 x 4 feet and is a great garden rose for a florist bred variety. Very winter hardy but will spot somewhat. Blooms in good flushes.

Ingrid Bergman: in the ground about 5 years. Dwindled away to nothing and disappeared, literally, over one winter. Never bloomed more than one bloom a season for me. No loss.

Pope John Paul II: 5 years in a pot. Not a big grower. Has lower and wider habit. Only gets about 2 x 3 each season. Canes die back a lot in the winter but returns faithfully each spring. Does spot a lot and repeat is slow.

Grandi's

Dick Clark: 2 years in a pot. A spreader! Gets about 4 feet high but will also go 4 or 5 feet wide. Wonderful bloom power, good hardiness but average disease resistance.

Fire n Ice: 5 years, 3 potted/2 ground. I'm putting this one back in a pot if it makes through the winter. It grew much better there. But even potted this was not a large plant. Only gets about 2 x 2 feet even in a good year. Fair disease resistance, a little bit cold tender.

Cherry Parfait: This one is not mine, it's my cousin's, and she's had it for about 8 to 10 years. Gets about 3 to 4 feet tall and wide each season. Both hardiness and disease resistance are very good.

Dream Come True: 5 years 3 potted/2 ground. Grows to around 3 or 4 feet high and about 2 to 3 feet wide. Nice upright habit. Not a rapid repeat but nice flushes. Fairly hardy but does have a good amount of cane die back. Also spots.

Austin's

Golden Celebration: another one of Mom's so it's probably been here since it was introduce in the 90s and has always been in the same spot in the ground. It's on a trellis. It reaches beyond my 12 foot high eaves every season and is a good 4 or 5 feet wide as well. The bottom spots like mad, the top not so much. Great hardiness! I'm talking cane hardy to the tips almost every year. One of my favorites!

Shrubs

Quietness: 6 years, 4 potted/2 ground. Another favorite. Blooms it's fool head off all season and they're gorgeous. Gets to 4 or 5 feet high and wide and isn't real stiff so it usually needs some support for that much height. Not much spot problems and wonderful hardiness, to the tips, each year.

Climbers

Dublin Bay: Had this one 6 years in the ground and, idiot that I am, accidentally killed it in 2010. No matter what anyone ever tells you, do NOT prune your climbers low in the fall!!!!! It died that winter and I now have a lovely shoot of Dr. Huey in it's place. Ugh! Anyway, it was a nice climber that got over my 12 foot eaves and bloomed in three or so flushes each season. Like a lot of climbers the bottom was pretty bare but the top didn't spot ever. It's a stiff grower so if you want to train it do while the canes are very young and more flexible. It almost didn't need the trellis it was on because it stood up pretty well all by itself. I miss it!!!

That's all the ones I had, have or know about. If you have any questions, ask away!

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Comments (18)

nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We have hot, dry weather here in the summer, and my roses get significantly larger than the estimates in descriptions. HTs I grow: As I mentioned in your other thread, my Frederic Mistral is about 6 X 6 feet, but is on Dr Huey, not own root. I have Memorial Day, but it is not even two years old. Still, it is getting big, maybe 5 feet by three feet. I expect it to get larger.
Floribundas: I have two Julia Child roses. One is about 5 X 4 feet, and the other about 6 X 4 feet. Blue Bayou is closing in on 6 X 3 feet. Angel Face is less than two years old and is about 3 X 3 feet.
Grandiflora: Twilight Zone is less than a year old and is between two and three feet tall. Not very big so far. I have two Ascot roses. Both are pushing 6 feet. One is pushing 4 feet wide and the other is about 3 feet wide. They will be three years old this spring.
Austin: Golden Celebration is about 7 X 5 feet. PA of K is less than a year old, but looks like it will be pretty big.
I have other Austins not on your list, and some of them are monsters. Those are all grafted on Dr Huey. The Austins that are on multiflora (The Prince and Tamora) are moderate in size. Since we have different weather conditions and soil types, take all this with a grain of salt. Still I never believe the descriptions on websites and in catalogs. Diane
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Yes, it's the same rose. The year I bought my two I think it was listed as 2.5 feet or something odd. HMF says 3-6 feet, but used to say only 3, I think. But funniest is HMF says Ascot grows up to 18 inches wide--mine is about 7 feet. It's a good thing I just happened to plant the one in the photo in a place with lots of room, but I have had to remove a lavender, dianthus, and will remove another big lavender this spring to make way. It's currently duking it out with a huge snowball bush. Who will win? Diane Ascot in 2013--see how far away the snowball is? The rose is touching it now. The lavender on the right is gone and other will soon be gone; it's being crushed.
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susan4952
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Seil, do you protect or house these potted guys in the winter? Reading your post makes my back hurt. Lol
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seil zone 6b MI
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The potted roses stay outside against the back wall of the house, wrapped in burlap and packed with leaves. None of the ground roses get protection. It is a lot of work to put the pots in and out of protection but it's worth it for the beautiful blooms!

I was very late getting them in this year and it had already snowed. This is what they looked like last weekend when we finally got them done.
susan4952
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Wow. How many do you have? I have 75 and I drag about 10 into the garage but I am colder zone. The trees and the zone 7's either get put away or mulched.
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dublinbay z6 (KS)
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Karolina, I'll try going straight through your lists. (Wow, that is quite some order for spring!)

My Zone 6 Kansas doesn't have terribly cold winters any more (used to sometimes back in the 1980s!), but there is enough cold that the HTs, for instance, will often die back to around 2-6 inches tall. That keeps the heights down on my roses--they are never taller than HMF lists, and often they are on the shorter side. I don't winter-protect, but my neighbors' oak trees shed leaves haphazardly all over the back yard, so they get a bit of protection that way. Our summers here are usually super HOT and humid.

Angel Face--grew it years ago--serious blackspotter! Was a shorter-growing plant.

Valencia--another one that has not grown much in the 3 years I've had it, but I did move it twice, so that probably slowed it down. Think it got 2 ft tall maximum.

Elina (on multiflora)--she's a big, vigorous grower. I'd guess 5 ft tall and maybe 4 ft wide. I remember she spread outward a lot. Thorny, thorny, thorny.

Peter Mayle-- grows right next to Elina and is somewhat shorter and definitely narrower. Grows more up rather than outward.

Red Intuition--mine is less than 3 years old so not fully matured yet. Height about 2.5 ft so far, width is less. Got mine from Palatine--are theirs on multiflora? Can't remember.

Memoire--mine is only a couple years old, about 2.5 ft tall.

Cherry Parfait --maybe 3.5-4 ft tall and wide.

Earth Song--maybe 4 ft tall and 3.5 ft wide.

Lady of Shalott--mine is young, maybe 3 ft tall x 2.5 ft wide. But I'm expecting it in the next year or two to be more like 4x3 at least.

Happy Child--love the bloom, hate the plant which was a real wimp. Never got over 1.5 to 2 ft tall--and I tried growing it 3 different times.

Molineux--mine are about 3.5 ft tall x 2.5 ft wide.

William Shakespeare 2000--wider than tall. Mine gets about 4-5 ft wide x 3.5 to 4 ft tall. I remember one poster in Pennsylvania stated that his got 6 ft wide!

Pretty Jessica -- shortie, 2.5 x 2 ft.

Queen of Sweden -- taller than wide: 4-5 ft x 2.5-3 ft.

Jubilee Celebration--maybe 3 x 2.5.

Braveheart--wider than I expected: maybe 3.5 ft tall and wide (or a bit wider)

Dublin Bay--10-12 ft range. Yes--stiff canes as it matures, so train them while they are still younger and more flexible.

I didn't comment on their other features because they are all wonderful roses (at least the ones I know), so I assume you've already researched their other features to come up with such a fine list.

Boy, are you going to have a sore back by the end of spring-planting! But you'll love every moment of it, won't you!

Kate
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doodles-grower
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Karolina11,What a impressive list! I only ordered 31 this year and I was worried if I was going to be able to get them all in the ground quick enough! I am glad I ordered early before you did or there wouldn't have been any left! My 28 were new last year so I can't contribute to the size, Im still a newbie. Thanks for the incentive!
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michaelg
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Just to comment on some that are larger or smaller compared to class averages:

Elina--wide and tall, allow 40" width.
Gruss--wide, allow at least 3'.
Earth Song--really a shrub, allow 4'.
Tess--really a climber, allow 6' as a pruned shrub.
Royal Highness--very narrow and tall, ownroot might be puny.

These Austins need only about 3' of width: Molineux, Sophy's. Pretty Jessica, Prospero. WS2000 needs 5'.

If I don't have info to the contrary, I space modern bush roses at 30", average Austins at 4', or 6' for the larger ones. This is tight spacing.
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lsst
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I can comment on three of them.

Happy Child- It is more dainty and bushy. I have been pleased with it. It is own root. Right now, It has grown to about 3 feet by 3 feet and is nice and full.

Christopher Marlowe- It is grafted and about 6 years old.
It has an arching habit. It has a delicate look and is one of my favorites. Weeping, it is about 4 feet tall by 6 feet wide.

Queen of Sweden - Very upright- It is own root and at 2 years old, it is 6 feet tall by only about 2 feet wide.
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Karolina11
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you everyone! I know these took awhile to type up but I really do appreciate the feedback!

Nanadoll,
glad someone is growing Ascot! Definitely will have to give mine some more space than planned as I have it against the house where it stays quite warm.
Also, Do you grow your Golden Celebration on a trellis or self standing?

Seil, you are the reason I have ordered Angel Face. The photos of yours are just wonderful! You say yours is very hardy, thus can I expect little cane dieback? The space I have it planned for gets quite windy.
Secondly, I will definitely need to find a new place for Memorial Day if it gets 6-8 feet so I am glad you mentioned it.
Also, I was under the impression that Cherry Parfait and Fire & Ice are the same rose (HMF has the names linked I believe). Are the two you mention very different? I currently have Fire & Ice ordered and I see Regan lists them seperately. Odd.
Thank you for the tip of Dublin Bay! I might plant a low one in front of it to cover the bottom.

Kate,
Regarding my list, I am sure I will be on here complaining after spring planting but the catalogs kept on coming! Thankfully I started digging holes in the fall and got through some, now just need to watch the dogs out in the yard with the snow cover so they don't accidently fall in!
Thank you for the thorn tip on Elina, will need to stick her in the back so I can prune things in front without getting stuck. Also glad you mentioned WS2000 - I definitely did not have it planned for a 6ft wide spot!

Doodles, I tried to stagger all of my deliveries (I have ordered from Palatine, Regan, DA, Chamblees, RVR, Heirloom, and RU) and pretty much don't plan on sleeping, eating, or bathing until I am done (although if this goes like my 2013 resolution, I am in trouble..). You and I both have a lot of work to do!

Michael,
I was way off for Tess. I assumed the HMF listing of 3'-8' would mean it would be closer to 3' in my zone so it definitely gets moved! Thank you! I was spacing 36" on average so most of these plans should work

Lsst, when you say C.Marlowe has a delicate look does that mean you would suggest moving it toward the front of a bed to enjoy it versus further back? I had it spaced further back since the flower color is so "pow!"

Thank you again everyone!
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lsst
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Definitely put Christopher Marlowe in the front.
It has a wonderful round arching habit that is very graceful. I have it planted at the front section of a parterre garden. Beside it I have an equal size ice blue salvia and the combo is stunning.
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lsst
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
In my previous post, my zone shows zone 10.
That is not correct. I am Zone 7b.
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Karolina11
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Great, thank you!

As for my previous comment about Fire & Ice and Cherry parfait, it appears I made the mistake of thinking Fire N Ice and Fire & Ice (aka Cherry Parfait) are one and the same, and they are not. Thus, I have Fire 'N' Ice on order and not Cherry Parfait. Yet.
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seil zone 6b MI
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Karolina, Angel Face is a beautiful rose that smells wonderful but almost everyone you talk to will admit that it is a black spot magnet. It's usually pretty cane hardy for me every year. I do prune it back quite a bit in the spring anyway though to keep it in shape.

Memorial Day seems to prefer a lot of sun and likes hot weather better than cool so place it in a very sunny, warm spot.

My apologies. I have Fire 'n' Ice, not Fire & Ice. You are correct that F&I by Meilland is another name for Cherry Parfait. F'n'I is a different floribunda rose by Christensen & Carruth. Sorry!
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jacqueline9CA
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
No info from me, as I am in the wrong climate area, but I just wanted to comment that this thread is a wonderful example of one of the values of this web site - really useful information from similar climates about how specific roses grow! Information based on hands - on, direct knowledge, shared not only willingly, but with care and some effort, and in such a timely manner - 24 hours to get all of this input!

Every day I am grateful for all of the helpful, knowledgeable folks on these rose forums who are so generous with their time and efforts.

Jackie
ken-n.ga.mts
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Here's what happens in my N.GA. mountain area. These are the one's that I grow or have grown. Sheila's Perfume-- 6' by 3', HT type of blooms (beautiful and fragrant). Dark Night-- 5' by 3'(needs afternoon shade!!). Ivory Tower-- 6' By 2'. Elina-- 6' by 5'(really nice bushy bush). Royal Highness-- 4' by 2' (Blooms will water spot). Veteran's Honor-- 5' by 4'. Voodoo-- 6' by 3'(beautiful blooms that look like they are on fire. Bush PACKED full of thorns). Moonstone-- 6' by 4' (one of my favorites!!). Tineke--5' by 3' (one of the finest pure white roses out there). Gemini-- 5' by 3' (you'll like it). Brides Dream-- 6' by 3'. Molineux-- 5' by 3' (one of the best Austins you can get). Crocus Rose-- 4' by 3' (right up there with Molineux).
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Karolina11
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Seil, thank you again for the tips! And no need to apologize, it was I who did not realize they were different roses. I am glad you made me look at that again and realize it!

Jackie, you are completely right. Everyone has taken time out of their day to type so much information up which will save me so much time in the future. I cannot be thankful enough!! Thank you everyone!

Ken, does your Tineke blackspot very much? It looks so gorgeous that I have it in a prime front yard space but I am worried it will be without leaves a lot due to it being a florist rose. Thank you for the tip on Dark Night. Will have to move that on my plan too.

This post was edited by Karolina11 on Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 22:41
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diane_nj 6b/7a
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
All HTs/FL are bad with blackspot in your area. Elina might be a bit better than most, but they will require a regular blackspot treatment. I don't remember where in central PA you are. I'm near-coastal NJ, a little warmer. The rose garden in Hershey will have many of these.

Tinike was a BS nightmare for me, and it didn't grow very tall, maybe 3'. I gave it away, I'm told it did better in that yard, but I don't think that person gardens anymore.

Neptune is 5' - 6' tall, 2' wide.

Gemini can get over 6' tall 2' - 3' wide.

Moonstone is easily 6'+, 3' wide.

PJP II was really small, 3', it is gone.

Purple Tiger never got taller than 2', it is horrible with blackspot, it went roots up after two years.

Angel Face is also bad with blackspot. I've had 3, can't keep it alive.
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Anyone in Zone 6 & 7 - input on the size of these roses?

seil zone 6b MI

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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho

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Anyone in Zone 6 & 7 - input on the size of these roses?

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