I top my seed pots with chick grit or very fine aquarium gravel when sowing things with a longer germination period - that combined with good air circulation and I don't experience damp off. (oh boy, probably should not have said/typed that 'out loud', may have invited it)

You might read through the Clothiers article Damping Off for much good information.

Here is a link that might be useful: Damping Off

I have read that article and others and I have tried to follow the advice. This year I am using the Deno method for germinating the seed (paper towels/coffee filters). This means the growing media (1:1:1 vermiculite, perlite and milled spagnum) is not prepared and moistened until after the seeds germinate. This should give them a head start. However, the only place I have to grow the seedlings is a cool basement, which is generally not recommended. I have had trouble in past years and have experienced either poor germination or lost seedlings. So I am looking for all the help I can get. Thanks!

What has worked for me for 30 years is covering the top of the soil with finely milled sphagnum moss as soon as seeds are planted. (A tiny bag lasts a few years.) Also, I keep a window open slightly in the plant room, even when the temps are freezing. The one year I tried it with a closed window, fungus appeared. Never again. (A fan will work, too.)

Another tip is to only bottom water in a tray and try not to get the top of the soil wet (just damp). This takes practice. (I've never needed any fungicide or tea with these practices, but it's good to know what works just in case.)

Hi,

I second the chick grit option. When sowing into containers you would cover with the grit(or sow onto the grit)...but you can apply the grit anytime after germination too(in your case when you transplant the seedlings into their growing medium).

But I'm not sure if you'll even need to worry about the damping off with the medium you'll be using. If you are worried only about the cool basement....I wouldn't. It will just make things grow a little slower, but stronger(it would be a worse situation in a warmer basement). Our basement is very cool...and we have excellent results...no damping off...none. However, we do run a fan down there for circulation...not continously, but on a timer that has multiple settings(kinda like nature:)

Good luck
michele

Yup....I agree with the above posters.....I indoor sow in my cool basement with a fan going a lot of the time. Never had a problem with damp off. I've had great results....never used anything special. Good luck.

I've used a light solution of (diluted w/ water) chamomile tea in a misting bottle and spray seedlings once in awhile and I've never had damping off.

One other thing to suggest about basements. If you have a basement that could get damp and some basement mold, keep your shelves away from the walls. My basement is old and unfinished. The walls have gotten damp in the past. It has that basement smell in the summer. I notice that if I keep my pots against the wall, those will be the first to damp off. I've pulled the shelf out just a bit and have alleviated the problem quite a bit.
Second, I've noticed boiling the water (and letting it cool) when just starting the seeds helps. That is especially noticable when I use the baggie method.

I use finely milled sphagnum (commercial name "No-Damp-Off), and I also use granite grit to cover my seeds in most cases. Admittedly, fungal and bacterial contamination are minor in my low-humidity climate.

Lisa

Thanks for all the responses. I am using the No-Damp-Off milled spagnum in the growing mix. I am also water with chamomile tea. I try to alternate. One watering with tea and one without. I don't want to overdo it but I also don't want to lose plants. I do have a fan I used last year but I usually don't run that until the true leaves are a little bigger. Should I be running it as soon as the seed germinates?

Hi hill n bog,

As to my seed set-up....my germination area doesn't get hit by the fan directly. I prick out my seedlings from their germination pots and they get transplanted to their new 'temporary' cells(a small plug size) which are getting air movement over them.

So in other words, once my seedlings are just big enough for me to handle they are receiving the benefit of the extra air movement. This starts to beef them up pretty quickly too!:)

Good luck
michele

One other thing: I always bottom-water my seedling pots. I hold them in flat trays that have no holes, with one pot missing from the full flat. I pour water where the missing pot is, and then it percolates up through the soil in the pots.

Hi, this is a very interesting thread. I have been using the windowsill seed starters that use a thin felt-like material to wick water up from a reservior and moisten the soil in each pot throuugh a hole in each pot bottom. My problem is the system seems to work too well; more than half of the seeds get fuzzy and mold before they even sprout, and then the ones that do sprout often die suddenly from what I assume is damping off.

Would the turkey grit help? I am not sure about vermiculite; I heard it could contain asbestos(?)

I would truly appreciate any advice on how to improve my seed starting results.

Thanks!

Lois in Pa

Hi Lois,

I can see where constant wicking of moisture could be a problem for your seeds. In my set-up the seeds get watered once...that is it.

I initially moisten the soil before I add seed....and what I have been doing is adding some sand to the soilless mix(miracle gro potting soil). I used to buy a special seed starting mix for my seeds, and used the miracle gro only outside for my winter sowing, but thought jeez the miracle gro does great outside...lets try using it inside...and it has been easily outperforming my other couple of seed starting mediums. It has the perfect consistency, and when I add a little sand to it...it has become my favorite(and I have tried and experimented alot with different combinations).

So, after I sow the seeds, in 3" or 4" pots (I may add chick grit to the top to those that I think will be slow in coming up), I then use a sprayer to throughly soak the seeds and soil....with the added sand the soil moistens nicely, but excess runs off. I then put a piece of saran wrap on top(I love the green colored ones:), rubber band it on, and put it on my heating frame. Thats it...no more watering because the the combination of the 3-4" pots(better soil volume), and the saran wrap keeps things perfect for me.

I did some looking into seed starting of bulb seeds, and people would modify the soil by adding grit or sand to the mix so that it becomes a faster draining soil for the plants. I took this info and tweaked it and began germinating all my seed like this...and it works great!

Try setting up some experiments with your soil. Make some additions...see how they drain, see how they retain,...then try some with seeds...and see what happens. To me this is the fun part...experiment! Its fun to learn, and see what works for you.

Good Luck and have fun,
michele

My goodness, your method sounds a lot dryer than what I have now.. I should try some sand on top..Perhaps also add some chamomile tea to the water? Or maybe just throw a teabag in the water reservior. :-) Seriously, you make me think I should find something to further limit the amount of contact between the 'felt' conducting the water and the soil..Perhaps a layer of saran wrap with a hole for each pot that is smaller than the pot's existing hole.

Thank you so much for your help and I look forward to experimenting !

Lois in Pa

Making sure all of your equipment is clean helps also. Bleachwater.

Keep in mind that 'damping off' can be caused by several fungi, namely, pythium, rhizoctonia or botrytis. And really, prevention is best. Once you see it, saving the plants is, in my experience, a losing battle. Here are some of my thoughts on preventing damping off.

The first two, pythium and rhioctonia, are soil borne fungi, so preventing them really involves using and maintaining clean conditions. Clean your pots, trays, whatever with 10% bleach solution. For the starting medium, using a soilless mix is best. And don't be tempted to cut it with soil from the garden. I've seen folks buy a seed starting or potting mix and then add garden soil to stretch it, and bang, they're right back where they started because they reintroduce the fungus. In fact, it can often be worse, because the fast growing fungus has no competitors and quickly and aggressively colonizes the sterile mix. The last area to keep in mind is watering. If you use a hose, keep it off the ground. You'll just pick up fungus and then water it into the pots, trays or flats.

Botryis, the same thing as you see on strawberries when you've forgotten them in the refrigerator ;), is airborne and attacks the plantlets above the ground. It loves poor air circulation and cooler temmps. The best remedy is increasing air circulation. That can be done with fans or by thinning the plants; opening the canopy, so to speak.

So, if you're experiencing damping off, first ask yourself, when it's occuring. Before germination and it's more likely Rhizoctonia or Pythium, and points to unsanitary conditions. If after, and you see a gray fuzz on the plants, it could be botrytis and better dealt with by increasing air circulation.

hope this helps,

Moscow

Ok, newbie here...is there a photo of "damping off"? By the sound of thing's, I may loose all that I have planted. I have an unheated gh. I have planted several container's and egg carton's in there. None of them are covered (w/saran wrap) I don't have a way to water from the bottom, so I sprinkle water (manure tea) on them. Luckily, I still have more seed's since it seem's like I have to start over...LOL So, what do you think? Start over while I still can? (some I just planted this past weekend)

tia,
Sondra

Hi Sondra,

Have any of your seeds germinated yet? If not, don't panic...damp off isn't some guarantee if you don't plant such and such a way. If your losing seedlings, then you might want to change your method(s)...but until you get some concrete evidence.....relax....enjoy....and see what happens.

You say you have extra seed, and its early yet, so you are ok. I can relate...I ponder over my methods (and I don't have any damp off issues) when I'm planting those few seeds I get from overseas or rare plants....I don't want to screw up, even when I know I haven't had problems in the past.
We live and learn....its fun ain't it?

good luck
michele

Michele....yes it is fun. I know I have a lot to learn...same with WSing ...lol I do have some thing's sprouting but other's (thing's I had started in Sept) have not....( peonies and iris's) so..they got dumped and I started over...lol I am going out today to make a list of what I have. Plus I forgot to put dates on my thing's to know how long it's been...so as not to get too anxious. Hopefully next year I will be more organized. LOL ( I say that every year about Christmas too!!)
Sondra

Sondra,
Do yourself a favor and research iris and peony germination on google. Not all seeds germinate in a straight forward way. They need periods of cold and warm germination and could take many months. Some things take more than a year.
Secondly, I would hold off on the manure tea for your seeds. The seeds are not going to use the nitrogen yet but fungus gnats and fungi might. Wait until your plants start getting their true leaves and then apply in a very diluted form. Too much fertilizer will burn young plants. Personally, I've never used manure tea on seedlings but someone else here has I'm sure and can tell you their results.
Finally about watering from the bottom, all it takes is an aluminum tray filled with water, not too much to make your pots float and tip though. Just place the pots in the tray and let them sit a while, then take them out and let them drain.
If you wet your potting medium well and let it drain very well before you make up your pots, then close them in a baggie, cover with chicken grit (or I've read some use damp newspaper and just spritz the newspaper until germination), you shouldn't have to water your seeded pots much. If your baggie or plastic covering becomes covered inside with a lot of condensation, open them up and let them evaporate a little, then close them back up.

Here is a link that might be useful: hybridize and grow peony

I started some larkspur and delph seeds in my basement, because they need darkness and cool temps to germinate. They are starting to come up, and look healthy. But, I notice the white coating on the seed starting soil now. It must be mold, but so far the seedlings seem fine. I did use sterile mix, and clean containers, but I guess the coolness and moisture caused the mold to form anyway. Would the chamomile tea help to keep them from damping off? As I said, the seedlings look fine now, but I know that damping off can start and rapidly wipe them all out. I'd hate to lose them it's the first time I've had success germinating them. Any suggestions?

In terms of mold growing on the medium, the best thing you could do would be to buy a very small reciprocating fan and to run it so that it circulates air over the growing medium. You just want a very gentle breeze. This will dry slightly the top of the growing medium and help deter mold and damp off fungus. In terms of avoiding damp off starting the seeds in coffee filters (the Deno method basically) has helped me very much. With captan dusted seeds there is no damp off in the coffee filters. You put together the growing medium (spagnum/vermiculite/perlite) after the seeds germinate so that the seeds have a head start on the damp off fungus. Once they develop a harder stem they are less susceptible to the damp off and will grow normally. I have used the chamomile tea but am not at all sure that it works. The way you can tell is that if the seeds have a staggered germination over a period of weeks and you try to add the newly germinated seedlings to growing medium that has been potted up and moist over that period they frequently die despite the tea. That doesn't happen with fresh media and newly germinated seeds. Manure tea I would think would be a disaster. The damp off fungus is very fast growing and you want to keep the nitrogen levels down to inhibit the stuff. Excess fertilizer accelerates dampoff. I use water soluble fertilizer at about 1/5 strenght with every watering. That seems to work well. You also want a more acid water for moistening the soil. That does seem to help. Something like pH 5.8 or so is good.