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daisyincrete

Help with new order.

I have succumbed to Peter Beales sales offer, and am making a list for delivery.

Because my garden is so tiny, I am having to be very picky.

The main criteria are;

perpetual flowering

heavily scented (I cannot smell tea roses)

can take the heat without crisping

My list so far is;

Abraham Darby

Buff Beauty

Climbing Devoniensis

Golding Celebration

Gruss an Aachen

Heritage

Marechal Niel

Mme Alfred Carriere

I also have coming, (not delivered last year);

Felicia

Mrs B.R.Cant

Souvenir d'un Ami

I already have;

Aimee Vibert

Archduke Charles

Blush Noisette

Colombian Climber

Duchess de Brabant (which I can smell)

Francis Durbriel (which crisps in the heat)

Sombriel

The New Dawn

I also have Papa Gontier and Archduc Joseph, both of which,

I cannot smell. They also crisped badly in the heat.

Please comment on my list. Any information is useful.

For example, Peter Beales makes no mention of Climbing Devoniensis being scented. I thought it is.

Thank-you

Daisy

Comments (16)

  • gardennatlanta
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Daisy, I have a few of the ones on your list.

    1. Abraham Darby--wonderful fragrance and beautiful flowers. He has pretty good rebloom but not constant here. He also suffers from Black spot and I have to spray.

    {{gwi:220506}}

    2. Buff Beauty--love this rose. The fragrance is very nice, the color is great and althought she gets some black spot, she doesn't get it all that bad. She's a bit gawky with stiff limbs that pop off the pillar I'm trying to have her grow up. Probably not the best choice to pillar. Still, she has a prominant place in my garden and will stay there.

    {{gwi:220507}}

    3.Devoniensis --I have the bush form and think she's one of my favorites. I love the fragrance. She's young so hasn't really gotten established (I've heard she can take a while). But I've also heard she's worth the wait.

    4.Gruss an Aachen - I like this rose. He has a great rounded shape around 4X4 and really pretty blooms from bud to full flower. His fragrance is rather illusive, though. At times he is wonderfully fragrant and at other times, I'd have to say little to no fragrance. I can smell all other rose fragrances so I'm not sure if it's my garden, my plant or my nose. He had buds until a couple of weeks ago.

    {{gwi:220508}}

    5. Mme Alfred Carriere-she was one of my first OGRs and I really like her. She's in a really bad location but still flowers beautifully in the spring with delicious smelling blooms. Because she gets too much summer shade, she doesn't bloom much after that. (I'm moving her this spring).

    {{gwi:220509}}

    6. Mrs B.R.Cant - mine is a baby, planted last year. She was putting out buds until the January cold front hit Atlanta. Fragrance is nice but definately on the tea side, I think. I'm expecting great things from Mrs. Cant.

    7. Blush Noisette-I saw this rose in a cemetary in Charleston, SC and had to get one. Mine is also a baby but I love how the fragrance (kind of like honey to me) carries on the breeze. I smelled her before I got to her.

    {{gwi:220511}}

    8.Duchess de Brabant- another favorite. She really blooms. Fragrance is very much like raspberries and the bloom color and form are very pretty. Mine is much more tall than wide--that doesn't seem typical but it's what I have.
    9.Sombriel--beautiful flat soft creamy white blooms. The fragrance is wonderful--not always super strong but always there. He does get Black Spot here but blooms and blooms. He was covered in buds when the cold came a couple of weeks ago. Sad. He is wickedly thorny. I have him trained up a trellis next to my house. I think he looks wonderful.

    {{gwi:220512}}

    You've got some great roses coming. Enjoy them!

  • gnabonnand
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm glad to see 'Gruss an Aachen' on your list, because you described your garden as "tiny". Gruss an Aachen, and it's pink sport 'Pink Gruss an Aachen' is the ideal rose for a small garden. I have a half dozen Gruss roses in my garden, and am currently rooting more (very, very easy to root this rose). As mentioned above, Gruss' fragrance is unpredictable ... sometimes it's strong and heavenly, at other times it's hard to detect. It all depends upon atmospheric conditions. All in all though, my nose finds this rose nicely fragrant.

    You have some great roses on your list, however some of the ones you listed get absolutely huge in my climate.

    Randy

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  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I had Felicia in my garden because I think it's a beautiful rose but it's no longer with me. I hope you have a different experience, but in my hot, dry climate Felicia was not a happy camper. No disease, but just didn't want to grow or bloom much. Souvenir d'un Ami does well for me but for some unknown reason the blooms sometimes look dried up and unattractive which has nothing to do with the heat. Mine are still young plants and that may change. Monsieur Tillier (which I believe is probably your Archiduc Joseph) also crisped badly here and I sadly gave it up even though it was a beautiful shrub.

    Good luck with your new roses!

    Ingrid

  • greybird
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One that is not on your list, but fits the criteria perfectly is Stanwell Perpetual, loves heat, no crispy-critter blooms, my very best for rebloom and the fragrance is intense. Also, Souvenir de la Malmaison has heat resilient flowers.
    Buff Beauty or Felicia don't like the heat here, really look tacky, and on the SP list.
    Gruss an Aachen did much better in a pot for me. Is such a small rose, can easily be shadowed out by neighbors. I really I not too impressed with the flowers.
    Heritage is not too crazy about the heat. The flowers totally crisp in the hot sunlight.
    New Dawn does not like heat, I only get one good flush each spring, sporatic blooms thereafter. After 6 years of hot summers here, the canes look very ugly and sunburned, I'm looking for a replacement.
    Mme. Alfred Carriere does pretty well, not too much bloom after the initial spring flush. Blooms crisp quickly.
    Really, I have not found any bloom that can take our late afternoon sun, other than Stanwell Perpetual. I get around this by not planting in a western exposure.

  • organicgardendreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Daisy, you have some great roses on your list!

    I grew Abraham Darby in NoCa. The fragrance was remarkable, repeat was good, but unfortunately it was a rust magnet. I would have sp it, but we moved before it came to that.

    Climbing Devoniensis is supposed to get really large I don't know if the final size is OK in your small garden. I just got a band of Climbing Devoniensis myself and have the same question about its fragrance. The prickles look scary, even on the band!

    Golden Celebration does very well in SoCa and NoCa. I assume with enough water that will be an awesome rose for you.

    I am growing Heritage in SoCa now, but I got the band only last year. The rose is still in a 5 gallon container, but grew very well and flowered a lot for me. The flowers blow fast, though, but I don't mind that. I love the strong scent.

    Madame Alfred Carriere gets huge, I mean really huge! Just recently I got a small band and it looks so innocent, but I have seen a rose in a public garden that was a house eater. I will try to grow mine as a free standing shrub and prune it hard to keep it in check. A befriended Rosarian said that this might work at least for a few years before the rose gets out of hand. Worth a try for me, since I find her flowers irresistible.

    Hope this helps. Good luck with your roses!

    Christina

    PS gardenatlanta, love that you illustrated your comments with photos of your very beautiful roses!

  • daisyincrete Z10? 905feet/275 metres
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    gardenatlanta. What wonderful photographs! If my roses look as good as yours do, I will be in heaven.
    As for Abraham Darby getting blackspot, I am hoping that as my climate is very dry most of the year, it won't be a problem here.
    I plan to grow Mme Alfred Carriere up a large plum tree. That means that most of her, will also be in shade most of the year. I have a very long growing season here in Crete, so that could mean that I get a few flushes from her.

    Randy. Thank-you for telling me about Gruss an Aachen.
    I wanted Pink Gruss an Aachen as well, but Peter Beales has sold out of that one for this year. Hopefully, I can get it next year.
    You mention that the perfume depends on atmospheric conditions. Can you tell me if the scent is strong when the weather is hot and dry, or damp and cool?
    My climate is hot and dry most of the time, so I am hoping that it is the former!

    Ingrid, I think your climate is very similar to mine, so your opinion is very important to me.
    I am sorry to hear that Felicia doesn't do well for you.
    Can you tell me if she is in full sun all day, or just part of the day?
    I might change Souvenir d'Ami to something else. Greybird suggests Stanwell Perpetual and Souvenir de la Malmaison. Do you have those?

    Greybird. I really like your suggestions of Stanwell Perpetual and Souvenir de la Malmaison. I might change Felicia and Heritage to those.
    I have planned Buff Beauty for a north eastern facing position. Hopefully she will do okay there.
    New Dawn and Mme Alfred Carriere will be climbing up trees, so a lot of their growth will be shaded. I have grown both of them before in England, so I know they do well in shade. I hope that they can take the higher temperatures here.

    Christina. You are also in a similar climate to mine. Thank-you for responding.
    I have noticed a lot of rust on the wild flowers here in early summer, so I am rethinking Abraham Darby.
    Climbing Devoniensis and Mme Alfred Carriere are destined for quite large trees. I only hope that they are large enough!
    Can I ask, is Heritage in full sun? Only Greybird's crisp in the sun.
    Thanks. Daisy

  • dennisb1
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    of the ones on your list I have:
    Abraham Darby - Mine's own root. I like it a lot, I think it's a good peach rose, reasonably vigoruous.
    It's only down side for me is BS, probably about average resistance.
    Golding Celebration - didn't like it, not a great bloomer for me and shattered in the rain,
    also, I don't like butter cup yellow roses (so maybe that's the real reason I didn't like it)
    Heritage - a very good rose and thornless!
    Archduke Charles - after 2 yrs still a runt, but I like it none the less.
    Sombriel - a good rose, good repeat, average BS resistance, just watch out for those thorns.

  • organicgardendreams
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Daisy, if you can let Climbing Devoniensis and Mme. Alfred Carriere scramble into trees, you will get a stunning sight!

    My Heritage is growing in full sun and I don't remember the flowers frying. It is really such a lovely rose with a very pleasing fragrance!

    I have seen Souvenir de la Malmaison growing very well here and as you said our climates are similar, therefore I assume that this rose will do well for you, too. I think it is a breathtakingly beautiful rose and if you like it go for it! I got myself a band of SdlM last autumn, but it is too early that I can comment on mine.

    I would be interested to hear about your final choice, how your roses are doing and please, please post photos!

    Happy rose-choosing!

    Christina

  • greybird
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You may not get as hot there as here, 100+ with hot winds. Heritage has a very fragile bloom, winds take it easily and a very hot sun will bake it. I get very little production in the heat of the summer. But worth planting for the equisite beauty and intense fragrance, as long as you aren't expecting long lasting blooms.

    Another rose that is not on your list, but performs spectacularly in very hot conditions is the tea Le Pactole. Simple, ribboned blooms, but so floriferous all summer here, again no crisp-critters. Maggie, the found rose (bourbon?) is also a real heat lover.

  • gnabonnand
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In my Dallas-area garden, the blooms on 'Heritage' do not fry and it blooms all summer long prolifically. It is true that the individual blooms do not last long though. But they sure are fragrant and attractive.

    Randy

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Daisy, Felicia was actually in part shade but it didn't seem to matter. However, I live on the side of a hill that has huge boulders and there's a lot of reflected heat. I don't think the hybrid musks are a good fit for me at all and Lavender Dream is the only one I'm growing now. I have small bands of Souvenir de la Malmaison and SdlM Rouge which I think will do well since from everything I've read on the forum they like dry heat. Another SdlM sport, Mme. Cornelissen, which I've had longer, is blooming beautifully with no sign of disease, as is Kronprinzessin Viktoria, another sport which is white. You might want to give any or all of them a try.

    Ingrid

  • daisyincrete Z10? 905feet/275 metres
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dennis. Strange, isn't it, but I also don't usually like yellow roses. I think that it is the quality of the light here, in my new home of Crete that makes all the difference.
    Yellow flowers, and other strong colours, look right here. Much different to the grey blue light of England.

    Christina. I am going to have, Climbing Devoniensis, Mme Alfred Carriere, New Dawn and Aimee Vibert all climbing into trees. However, as I am exceedingly greedy, they won't be climbing alone. I am going to train clematis and other climbers with them!
    SDLM sounds perfect for Crete. Peter Beales still has some available. So I think that I must try one.

    Greybird. We do get some hot winds off of North Africa. They are what my DH calls Gaddafi winds, full of sand and dirt!
    Luckily, my garden is quite sheltered from them.
    The temperature, although hot, is bearable, except for the occasional short lived heat wave.
    I love the look of La Pactole and Maggie. Unfortunately, Peter Beales doesn't list them.

    Randy. I love it that you have told me, that Heritage blooms all summer long "prolifically". That means I HAVE to have one!

    Ingrid. Thanks, I think that I will have SDLM, instead of Felicia.
    Peter Beales does not list Mme Cornelissen, but he does list Konprinzessin Viktoria and she sounds lovely. I think that I will just have to have her too.

    Thanks to you all.
    Daisy

  • andreageorgia
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have a very nice list of roses there.

    Abraham Darby - I grew a couple of bushes of him in North Carolina (hot and humid, z 7b, and he was a splendid and very vigorous performer, a reliable and very good repeater, got quickly huge (6+ft x 4/5ft) but well behaved, rounded shrub, big, lovely and perfumed flowers. While not a terrible BS magnet, he did a lot better with spray, even if only a occasional one. Lovely fruity perfume. In your dry and climate (Crete, right?), disease, especially BS, should not be much of an issue though. Make sure that he and the other Austins get enough water and food, they're greedy for both, and this will make a big difference in their looks (incl. flower size), health, and and performance.


    Buff Beauty - I grew her also in NC. She produced pretty flowers, but not as regularly as I wished, two or at most three times per season, mainly in spring/early summer and then again in the fall. She will get big and is very sprawly (sideways if not trained otherwise), and very thorny with stiff stems. However, I've seen big upright shrubs of her, also in public spaces, here in England, which stayed healthy without spray. For some reason though, I didn't fall in love with her in NC, perhaps because of her sprawling habit and thorniness, and thus didn't get her again. But it's a good rose. Scent is moderate, sweet musk/tea.

    Golding Celebration - I love this one. It's been a superbly performing and repeating rose for me both in America and here in England, perhaps best grafted. I wouldn't be without it. The flowers have a wonderful golden color and a terrific scent which starts out as sweet tea and acquires more complex fruity notes and of white wine as the bloom ages. It needed some BS protection in NC, but fares quite well here without any spray it gets some BS but recovers quickly. It's vigorous and will get big quickly (but don't forget the water and the fertilizer!), but never sprawls.

    Heritage - another favorite of mine with its many many soft pink blooms. The rose is very floriferous and repeats very well if grown well (good soil, food and water), is extremely healthy (no spray, practically no disease here in wet England), and has a nice medium scent. My shrub got very tall in the US, over 6 ft after 3 years, but only a bit over half of that here so far (2 seasons). Nicely uproght and vaseshaped wiut any stiff appearance. I noticed that the rose does not like strong pruning, especially not after the flushes, so keep that to a minimum. Main caveat: the blooms shatter quickly in the heat, but their mass and quick repeat (esp. if not harshly pruned) make up for this.

    Mme Alfred Carriere - a house eater and once (or once and a half) bloomer from spring into early summer in North Carolina. Very beautiful and sweetly perfumed (medium strength) losely shaped blooms, and quite prone to BS and also powdery mildew, but this may not matter in your climate. But you'll need A LOT of real estate for her, and I don't know if she'll repeat any better where you live. She also seems to be a once bloomer here in England and in Germany from what I've seen so far. I don't grow her anymore. Just too big, not much repeat.

    Felicia - superbly perfumed and a good repeater, and quite healthy too. I grew her in a very large pot in NC which she quickly detested, vigorous as she was. She'll get very big! I put her in the ground just a few months before I left for the UK. She quickly stopped sulking and looked and bloomed better again. A beautiful and big shrubby rose, worth growing for her perfume alone.

    Duchesse de Brabant - very pretty light pink flowers with a pleasant perfume, very quick repeat, may be prone to mildew in crowded stuffy conditions, but perhaps not where you live. Mine stayed quite small, 2 ft or so. I wasn't crazy about her but liked her quite a bit. I don't grow her here in England, perhaps because I thought that she lacks just a tad of character. But she's definitely a very good and pretty rose.

    Francis Dubreuil - what a beauty. He needs afternoon shade, but may be crisping anyway. Very short, wide and open, shrubby habit, mine stayed under 2 ft in NC, very quick repeater, superbly colored and perfumed blooms - a deep smoky damask, a perfect fit for his dark red flowers. But he was a martyr to blackspot, even with spray, in NC. Defoliated quickly, but also rebounded quickly. That being said, I really loved him, and have him now on order from Peter Beales!

    Sombreuil - a climber with decent but not quick repeat, 2-3 flushes a year in NC. It has an open but somewhat scrawny, edgy habit with fairly thin and thorny canes, and not very many leaves, if I remember correctly. While the flowers were very beautiful, the plant looked a little, well, scrawny. Moderate vigor. Got also BS if not very regularly sprayed, but may behave and look better in a drier climate. The flowers are moderately perfumed, sweet tea, if I remember correctly. I don't grow it here in England.

    New Dawn - got space? I loved this one when I grew it in NC, the color and shape of its flowers, the sweet wafting scent, its small and shiny leaves that stayed perfectly healthy in hot and humid NC even without spray. Repeat was only so-so, mostly spring/early summer and fall, with some blooms in between, but when it was in full bloom it was just superb. While it's not as much a monster as Mme Alfred Carriere, it will also get very big, so take that into account. Only caveat: it's very thorny (at least the canes are very pliable), and it once took a good bite off my partner's scalp when he forgot to duck on the way out of our front porch. So maybe don't plant it along entrances and walk ways. But other than that, it's a great rose and true classic, my top pick for beauty and scent among the climbers you listed. Sombreuil comes second.

    Hope this helps,
    Andrea

  • daisyincrete Z10? 905feet/275 metres
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Andrea. Yes, that helps a lot. Lovely to have so much information when working out an order.
    I am not too worried about New Dawn and Mme Alfred Carriere getting big , as, they, and Climbing Devoniensis will all be going up various trees.

    I have now placed my order. I should have coming;
    Abraham Darby
    Buff Beauty
    Climbing Devoniensis
    Golden Celebration
    Gruss an Aachen
    Marechel Niel
    Mme Alfred Carriere
    Mrs BR Cant

    I will take photos later on. Thank-you all for your help.
    Daisy

  • andreageorgia
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good! Maybe also get Heritage and SdlM (a superb and most beautiful rose)? ;-) Just remember that Mme Alfred Carriere may only be blooming early in the season - spring into early summer.

    Cheers,
    A.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Daisy, so much depends on climate, and Mme. Alfred Carriere may bloom much longer for you. I've seen it here covered in blooms in the autumn, although on a mature specimen, so it may take a while for yours to do this, but I suspect this is another rose that likes a warm, dry climate, at least in terms of rebloom. Good luck with all your roses. I hope they do wonderfully well for you. If some are not everything you expect (and that's happened to every one of us!), it leaves the way open to try new and hopefully better varieties for your location.

    Ingrid