I was doing calculations for electricity costs too, Mike. Essentially 2 85W for 12 hrs a day will be around 2000 watts (or 2 KW) a day...assuming an average of 9 cents per KW, that's 18 cents a day, or around 6 dollars in a month. :)

Great Calvin. Thanks for sharing your calculation! Did you find your sockets? What are you going to use for reflectors?

-Mike

Geez - Need some clarification here.

Clara, it looks as if your 85W CFLs are 5500 lumens & 5000k.

On "Bob's" site, 1000bulbs.com, 3 of the 4 85W CFLs are full spectrum. 2 of those are 5000k, the other is 6500k.

Lumens range from 4200-5500.

The other 85W bulb is a warm white - 3000k and 4200 lumens.

Clara, I'm assuming your bulbs are cool white. Are you saying that those are more effective/efficient/cost saving, or something, than the full spectrum bulbs?

Do you feel like you're channeling Howard? LOL

Thanks, Whitecat8

hey Mike - I'm using the reflector pictured below. I got it from a local hydroponics store for 28 bucks. It doesn't come with the socket you see in the picture, but it does come with this thing with a hole designed to put a socket in. You'll need to try your luck at home depot to find something to clamp the socket into the hole...I found these metal things with screws that I used to fasten to my socket, and then I used a hoop screw to attach it to the fixture...I'll take some pictures this wknd for reference if anyone is interested!

{{gwi:197640}}

I bought two reflectors, one for a single larger bulb which I will mount sideways, like what is in the picture above. The other one, I'm going to try this weird setup for my cool growers in front of my chilly glass sliding doors, where I will have 3 plug sockets, 3 Y adapters (screws into regular socket and lets you use 2 bulbs), and an extension cord. I'm going to use 6 26W CFLs, screw them in and make a wooden frame through which I will poke these bulbs..and then I'll just sit the reflector on top to see if it does anything. I'll take some pictures and post them!

WC8 - I think 2700K color is optimal for growth, whereas 6100K is optimal for flowering...does that mean the 5000K ones have a little bit of both - I have no idea!! I didn't realize they were different lumen output either, so it will be interesting to see what Clara/Howard have to say on this!

Calvin, that reflector looks serious! If nothing comes of my visit to HD, perhaps I will visit the local hydroponics store and look around for something like you have purchased. I was hoping the inexpensive reflectors from HD would work. I am really interested to see how everything you're doing turns out - it sounds great, if you don't mind, please keep us posted.

Mike

Whitecat8,
I'm no expert, but I have been growing under lights for about 6 years now. My 'general' rule of thumb is that I try to go with the highest lumen bulb. In this case, I tried to mix the 5000K and the 2700-3000K bulbs. Right now I'm running 3 of the 5500 lumen/5000K's Eiko's and 1 4200 lumen/3000K bulb (Sunlight). As I recall, although I'm not sure if it is really true, you need the lower K bulbs for flowering and the higher K are for growth.

I have spares of each, so when I put the 5th light up it will be a 3000K for more even flowering/growth. If I don't notice a flowering difference in a few months, I may consider swapping a 3000K with a 5000K, just for the higher (+1300) lumens.

The 'best' reflector I've been able to find for the 85watt bulbs is the largest brooder lamps available at Lowes. I think I paid @ $13/ea for mine and the bulb still sticks out @4". Those 85's are about 11-12" long. Like Clara, I hang mine and discard the clamps.

Mike,
I run a lot of lights (12 40w T12's, 2 65 watt CFL's, 4 85 watt CFL's, a fan 16 hrs/day. My lights run 13-16 hours per day depending on season) and my estimate is that I have added about $40-$50 a month to my electric bill. In the summer my a/c runs more and in the winter the heat runs less, so it kind of evens out in that area.

Not cheap to grow @150 orchids indoors under lights, but then I think for a hobby that I really like and that occupies my time for at least 6-10 hours per week, it's pretty reasonable. My wife may disagree ;-)

HTH,

Bob

As I recall, although I'm not sure if it is really true, you need the lower K bulbs for flowering and the higher K are for growth.

No not true.

You don't need full specturm as orchids don't use the full spectrum. Marketing caca. WC, relax, you will be fine with the Eiko 85w 5000K . or the 42 w 5000K if you want to shoot them into the sides of tubes.

The 5000K's are "Howard approved" and I know he uses them personally. There was a post a while back that said he had gotten some and they were quite nice. My plants flower and grow like weeds. I am hoping outdoor acclimation will go a little easier next summer and I won't waste precious days

Clara
The Light Devil

The visible spectrum ranges from about 400 to 700 nanometers. Short wavelengths (high frequency waves) have more energy.

Color temperature refers to the light spectrum put out by a metal (tungsten?) filament at a certain temperature (degrees on the Kelvin scale). White hot metal vs. red hot metal for instance.

Blue (short) wavelengths have more energy than red (long) wavelengths, and so a higher temperature is needed to produce them.

The light spectrum of a hot filament is continuous so red blends into orange, orange into yellow etc, like a rainbow. Fluorescents do not work this way. The energy passing through the tube creates (dangerous) ulta-violet light which then hits a mixture of phosphor-chemicals (the white powder) causing them to fluoresce in specific colors (same as black light on a poster or T-shirt). The phosphors only fluoresce at certain wavelengths, a very very narrow spike of light within the spectrum. Whereas a tungsten filament spectrum looks like a hill across the landscape of the visible light spectrum, a phosphor generated light looks like a telephone pole sticking straight up in the red, blue or green part of the spectrum (or vertical lines made by only a few colors of crayons). Because light is only produced at a few specific wavelengths, rather than all wavelengths, less energy is use by the bulb.

Why does the fluorescent system of only a few colors of light work for us? The human eye has three color receptors, red, blue and green, with the most sensitivity at green (we evolved in a green world). Fluorescent lights are therefore heavy on green emitting phosphors. "Daylight" tubes and "full spectrum" tubes have additional phosphors (or ratios of phosphors) which add a few more spikes along the spectrum so that our eyes perceive objects the same as they would in daylight of a certain color temperature. The phosphor combination is fooling our eyes into seeing colors as they would look in sunlight rather than the icky greenish cast of cool white tubes. Daylight/Full spectrum does not mean continuous spectrum, but there is probably more usable light for the plants.

Note: not all daylight bulbs make the same light because daylight at noon in the tropics is different from daylight at noon in the snowy north. I found this out when I accidentally replaced warm colored T-8 daylight bulbs with white light daylight bulbs. I think they were even made by the same company, or one was Sylvania and the other Phylipps. I had to do some digging on the internet with the model numbers to find out that the second was something like "arctic white" daylight.

Plants cannot be fooled because their "receptors" are different from ours. Plant feed off of wavelength hills within the red-orange and the blue regions of the spectrum. Made-for-human fluorescent tubes are always going to be heavy on green, which as a waste of energy if you are going to shine them on a plant because plants "see" no green at all). You can have a super high lumen output bulb that the plant can barely see.
The amount of light produced in the usable wavelengths (PAR photosynthetically active radiation) is more important.

Made-for-plant lights are heavy on the red and/or blue emitting phosphors, and low on green so they look funny. You can mimic these plant lights with a combination of low color temp (3000-red) and high (6000-blue) color temp "human eye" bulbs. A mixture of 5-3000K reddish bulbs to 3-6,000K bluish bulbs gets the plant a semi natural ratio of the wavelengths it gets in nature and so neither growth nor blooming will be lopsided. Blue light carries more energy so less tubes are needed. 5000K bulbs work well because they produce a relatively balanced ratio of plant-friendly light in the red and blue, but they still have the majority of their light in other, human-friendly colors, and so waste energy as plant lights.

HIDs waste a lot of energy with light mainly emitted in the yellow-green part of the spectrum, and in the infrared (heat) wavelengths. In addition to that light, sodium grow-bulbs put out a lot of red light, relatively speaking, while metal halides put out more blue resulting in lopsided growth/flowering under either.

Salt water aquariums use high color temp (6,000K) bulbs because water absorbs red quickly so aquatic plants and corals are blue-adapted. These bulbs look brighter to us because our vision is tuned in to amplify bluish light (the main light color getting to us at dawn and dusk) it does not mean the plant is getting more energy from them.

Thank you, that was a great explanation. When you say the 5000k bulbs work well but waste energy in human-friendly colors, you mean the green spectrum, right? You seem to be suggesting that 6,000k is a good color temp for obtaining the least wasteful blue light, is that correct?

Well, thanks again.

Mike

Spiced Ham is of course absolutely correct and it is precisely because of the explanation outlined that I recommend a combination of sunlight and fluorescent light. The sunlight supplies the 'quality' and the fluorescent supplies the 'quantity'. I have gone as far as suggesting one use incandescents for the quality, however, with enough quantity even fluorescents alone work quite well. To answer the last question: the difference between 5000K and 6000K isn't perceptible to a human. It probably isn't perceptible to a plant either. As was explained by SH the fluorescents are optimized for humans, the 6000K will still have enough 'waste' wavelengths to make it less than truly awesome and certainly not perceptibly more acceptable than a 5000K. I have said before, even the difference between 2700K (very warm) and 6500K (cool) is not worth the beating yourself up over if your chosen lightbulb store only carries one or the other. Given a choice go for the middle of the spectrum 5100K (daylight) but if your choices are limited to one end or the other don't sweat it. If you really lay on the lumens it just doesn't matter what the spectrum is you are going to get growth. HPS is about the worst possible spectrum there is, nothing but yellow and some orange. Lots of MJ growers use nothing else and with $$$$ riding on the results, it would appear they are pretty well satisfied. LED lights, the next big thing, are as bad if not worse than HID and fluorescent in the 'crayon' nature of their spectrum but they will succeed because they will be able to produce upwards of 100 lumens/watt when they really hit their stride in R&D. Right now if a light source can get out 60 lumens per watt it is considered pretty efficient.

H

Great thread. We should bump this up every so often to keep it going.

In another thread today (linked below), someone (aachenelf) mentioned that their CFLs burned out due to overheating in a poorly ventilated reflector/hood. I wanted to add this issue to the things we've been discussing here, especially since Calvin recently posted about his new reflector set up. Any thoughts about this?

Here is a link that might be useful: CFL overheating/burnout

I think this was the problem with the 42 watt CFL and the brooder style Al reflectors I mentioned earlier. In these set ups the base of the CFL was very hot and probably exceeded the design limit of the goo used to stick the tube to the base. I think the middle sized CFLs cannot efficiently dissipate the heat in those reflectors. Before posting to see if others had the same experience I toyed with adding some ventilation to the base of the reflectors. All speculation mind you.

My two 85w CFLs arrived yesterday. They are bright! Thanks to all who recommended them, Clara in particular. I am very excited to get them set up. These are my observations/questions thus far:

For starters, I had a headache all day yesterday, so I could barely stand to look at the lights once I had plugged them in. I was not feeling well enough to throw myself into setting everything up, but I did run a few tests with my light meter. I was getting some pretty high fc readings, about 4,000 + right up close to the bulb, with the intensity dropping off by a high factor as you pull away from the bulbs.

I would be interested to know from Clara, or anyone else using the 85w CFLs, how far are you mounting your lights from your plants? Also, how do you cope with the blinding brilliance of the light? I mean, the light the bulbs cast is wonderful, but one inadvertent glance at the bulb itself is blinding! I guess I either have to orient the bulbs/reflectors in such a way that the bulbs themselves are less visible, or I need reflectors that enclose the bulb a little more. Perhaps the type of reflector that Calvin picked up at a hydroponics store would do more to limit the visibility of the bulb. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Mike

Mike - You've hit on my dilemma exactly. I've spent hours on the Web and the phone, searching for a fixture for the 85W spiral CFL before ordering any bulbs.

A guy at Stealth Hydro said there isn't a fixture on the market. I'm ready to believe him. A lot of the plant supply and hydro places have fixtures that will take the 85W spiral, but they're way more expensive than I was planning on.

Home Depot and many others carry the "brooder clamp lights" - those round, shiny metal lamps. However, the largest made by the manufacturer takes only a 300W incandescent, and the 85W CFLs are the equivalent of 400W.

So - the latest plan is to get 65W spiral CFLs, which are 250W equivalents and a bit shorter than the 85W. The 65W can go in the HD clamp-ons (under $12). The bulbs will protrude from the edge of the fixture, but I'll put aluminum foil around the bottom to keep the light out of my eyes. Theoretically, it'll just take one or 2 more set-ups.

A work in progress - Whitecat8

More complexity - another site has 85W CFLs the equivalent of 300W incandescents, not 400. More research. WC8

Hi WC8,

Check out at this DIY 85W CFL reflector from a 2005 'Growing Under Lights' thread. What this individual has crafted is basically the sort of thing I am thinking I need.

Here is a link that might be useful: '05 Vintage Gardenweb

FYI... an 85 watt cfl is an 85 watt bulb... so a fixture that can take bulbs up to 300w is perfectly fine. Doesn't matter what the equivalent is! The equivalence just means it produces the same amount of light with less energy, the restriction on the fixture has nothing to do with the amount of light, but the number of watts that it is pumping through, which is 85 :) Problem solved.

Oh yah I forgot, don't look at them, instant migrane..sorry. Do it 3 times your eyes get used to not looking. I don't have that problem anymore. We had a small outage this week. A friend came by. "IT'S DARK IN HERE!" Give it time. I have them all over the place. Above my eye sight usually. My windows are 5' off the ground and ~ 3-4' above that sits the 85w bank in the 1st pic I posted. Have 1 42 w left on that string :-)

I grow as tight as I can to any bulb, end of story. Arrange them by light requirement / temps as best I can and build little risers for the short guys. Group all the like ones, lycastes are all in 1 place etc. Hang vanda types from the bar. You can barely see them in a basket in the 1st pic I posted. I can thank Aerides (John) for that idea. Put a bunch of littlier guys in a basket and hang it!

I live next to a restaurant college night hang out. The ones in the windows destroy the drunk college kids after Happy hour :-))) My revenge for all the noise they create!

You will water more. More light more heat more water

No there is nothing that fits an 85w. Its still kind of "leading edge" to most folks. I use the overflow to light phals and carnivours. I'd be very careful enclosing that bulb. It kicks heat. Its like taking 4 tubes and coling them up into a small space.

WC stop researching and buy one! Try it you'll like it! Wasting precious grow time! Mine is 350w equivelent. ;-) ( Just teasing but it's true) 5000K go to it and watch them get happy!

Clara

Hi Jemsta,

I know for myself, the issue at hand re: fixtures is one of trying to hide the bulb from view. The fixtures I have from HD function just fine, but with the bulbs at a foot long the fixtures do not hide them, and they are so bright it practically hurts to look at them.

Thanks Clara!

I would love to sick my 85s on a neighbor too, but unfortunately, he lives in the apartment above me... that's another story.

I figured I should just put plants as close to the lights as I can, and organize them according to light requirements, but for some reason (perspective?) it looked like your lights were a few feet away from the plants in that rectangular window.

Thanks for all of your help and insight on this topic, I really appreciate it!

Mike

OK

I bought the 125 watt cfl's and fixtures from Farmtek, and am blooming small catts, phrags, many oncids, dends, etc. Bulb is about $40; bulb and fixture together are $99. Takes regular or mogul base. Fixture covers bulb, so you could use it inside. Works well, but I have noticed the bulbs burn out fast if they get too hot. I turn my fan so it blows over the fixtures. I have these in my doesn't-get-enough-sun greenhouse, and they really light up the night!

About the 42W CFLs - I haven't had any trouble w/ the bases of my 2 getting loose or seeming too hot. For the last year, they've been in the "brooder" fixtures - those round shiny metal clamp-ons. It happens that both are the Commercial Electric brand, which is made for Home Depot by Bayco. Theoretically, they were made for each other.

Hopefully this is helpful.

Whitecat8

fxxy - CFL = compact fluorescent light (bulb). They're a significant energy- and money-saver over incandescents anywhere inside and outside the house, for starters, and can provide more, less expensive light than fluorescent tubes for orchids. They also have advantages over Metal Halide and High Pressure Sodium bulbs, but I don't know the details on those.

If you search for compact fluorescent lights on the Web, you'll get the scoop.

WC8

Mike
Distortion in the photo. I am shooting fro below. You also can't see the bottom of the bulbs. Take these 2 issues into account, the photo may make more sense. See all the deli cups and what not? Little risers.... I think I was watering or fixing lights that day. Some are absent or out of place.

Clara
Lighting the Orchid's Close!

What do you all think is better, to set up my CFLs and light-loving orchids in front of a south-facing window that in the dead of winter receives no *direct* sunlight (due to the house next door), or an east-facing window that receives direct morning light for a while (when it's not raining - sheesh it's been a wet couple of weeks here in Minneapolis!)
?

Mike

Mike,

In that situation, all other things equal, I'd go for the east window to take advantage of that few hours of direct sun. The CFL's will make up the rest.

Bob

The first order was w/ 1000Bulbs.com for 5 Sunlite, full spectrum 85W CFLs: 4200 lumens, 6500K for $21.54 each.

Then I re-read this entire thread. 45 minutes later, I called up customer service, asking to change to the full spectrum EiKO: 5500 lumens, 5000k for $19.41 each.

The guy couldn't have been nicer. He acted like he'd been waiting all week for me to call and change my order.

So, next week or so, the CFLs will be here! They'll go in brooder clamp lights w/ porcelain sockets that were designed for 42W CFLs, size-wise. The fixtures can handle 300W bulbs.

I'm gonna try an aluminum foil extension around the rim of the fixture to block light from the part of the bulb that sticks out.

Thank you, everyone, for all the good info. It helped me make the decision.

Whitecat8

Congrats WC8!

The light is really bright - I think you will be impressed. I finally figured out my setup, now I just need to follow through on my plans this weekend.

Have a nice weekend!

Mike

Just meant that you can take 1 variable out of the equation when looking for fixtures and not worry about the wattage that the fixture can support... of course that doesn't help with the size :) I guess I shouldn't have said solved... slightly simplified would be more appropriate.
Best,
Jem

Jem - Your reminder about wattage made a huge difference and saved me buckets of money 'cause the HD brooder lights will work fine and dandy, except for the bulb length. Nothing a little aluminum foil won't fix. :)

Mike - Post a picture of your set-up when it's done.

WC8

"OKCFL= Compact Florescent Lightbulb (the spiral bulbs that can be screwed into regular sockets . In this case much much much brighter!

:)

Yeah WC! Congrats!!! Decided after receiving emails and seeing the posts on this thread to share my experience with the 85w's so far. Looking forward to your input!

Clara
No longer alone with "Big Bertha"

Clara, I'm there! Thanks for all your help and encouragement. WC8

WC8, Clara, et al

I set up my 85s this weekend, I opted to use them on some of my epiphytic cacti, succulents, and bromeliads/tillandsias, since the orchids I currently have are low-light terrestrials. I had higher light orchids (Tolumnias), some of which (the mounties) died in August. Those not mounted (or dead) I gave away after that, and before I had this light setup. Won't be doing mounties again. Anyway, next Spring I'll start over with some new orchids I have not tried before.

Mike

Here is a link that might be useful: 85w Compact Fluorescent Setup

Mike WOW! Nice set up and plants. That set up would be good for me if I wasn't at street level in a big city. You have no break -in worries ;-) You are well light inside and out.

WC thanks for a great post!

Clara

Thanks Clara. Glad you liked the set up, since yours was the inspiration. I am not on street level, but I am still a bit worried about the light flowing out that window. I don't think it should prove to be a problem (no complaints yet...), but one never knows - the building next door is not too far away! :)

Thanks for all the help getting me there!

Mike

Mike - Sweet. It's all neat and tidy, something mine probably won't be. Nice window, too.

I'm starting to get a historical persepective on this. After Howard - and thanks to his experience, we're in the 2nd wave of the high-wattage CFL early adopters.

Who knew we'd be worrying about the neighbors? The weight of the bulbs themselves? One day, we'll look back and chuckle, "Remember when there weren't even any fixtures for those spiral 85W bulbs, and we had to string up brooder lights?"

These'll be the good ol' days. :)

Whitecat8

Any light updates?

How's everybody doing with their lights?

This is an excellent thread packed with lots of information.

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and opinions on CFLs!

Living so far north, I am in desperate need of artificial lighting in the winter time. I have been experimenting with fluorescents for the past two years but now that I own a few orchids you guys have made me realize that my lights need a bit more "pop".
It never even occurred to me that you could use CFLs until Jane mentioned it to me in another thread here.
I was going to ask for more info but this thread popped up first.
With info like this, I actually might get my dend blooming.

You guys are a wealth of information and it is greatly appreciated by all us budding addicts out there.

Well. Time for me to go do some lighting shopping!
I think 4 85w should do the trick.
My landlords are going to kill me! ;)

Take care!
BlackWyld

Thanks to the advice of this forum and this thread in particular finally pushing me over the edge I've picked up several lights recently. I've only been able to get 42watt bulbs due to limited funds and space issues but I can honestly say my plants are looking happier than ever.

I moved from a very bright sunny apartment were everything grew happily to a much darker space. With the increase in light plants that were looking rather sad have put out new growths and a flush of new roots. In general everything has perked up and put on a happy face. I'm so glad I took the advice of all the light fanatics on this forum as you've opened up a new level of growing to me.

P.S. There's also the small benefit of having your living room look like South Beach with all the extra light. It makes it awfully cheery on a dark, damp Halifax morning!

I am asking my husband to buy me the 85watt, 5000K CFL's from "Bob's source" for Christmas. Not very romantic, but better than the tiller I wanted for my birthday (and did not get). I have read this whole post, plus many others, and I still can't find an answer to the following question: can we use these bulbs in the metal reflectors from Home Depot -- the cheap $7 reflectors -- or do we need special ceramic sockets? If we do need ceramic sockets, where can I find them -- cheap?? Howard...if you are out there.... it is time for me to change the bulb on my hps/metal halide convertible reflector-ballast setup. Can I change it to a CFL?? Which one? Will it be as effective as the metal halide/hps? Thank you. Liz

Hey Liz! You can definitely use the regular reflector + socket - to the best of my knowledge, even 125 watt CFLs can be screwed into those. If you're concerned about over working the socket, I have one which says maximum 600 watts. Although I'm quite sure they will not support that high a wattage, up to 100watts shouldn't be a problem since that's how much normal incandescent bulbs use anyway.

The only problem is that the end will stick out of the reflector since the bulb is too long, which may be a little unfortunate if your lights are in a high-use area of your home.

From what I know about the HPS/metal halide setup, I *think* you can only use those bulbs (someone will correct me if I am wrong) since CFLs have their own ballast contained within the bulb. Doesn't electricity go through the ballast before getting to the socket in the HPS setup? I feel like that may mess things up but I'm not sure!

Calvin is right on both counts. The large 125W CFL can be used in the cheap light fixtures as these are usually rated to 160W or better. And the CFL are not compatible with HPS/MH fixtures.

As for effectiveness it would depend a lot on the wattage of the HID lamp but even at the very low end (150W/175W) where they are not quite so efficient the HID would have a slight edge over a CFL of equivalent wattage. CFL are mainly for people that have not already made the investment in an HID ballast/fixture, if you already have one you should use it. Of course if you have another area of the house you want to light....

H

The simple answer is my 42W spiral CFLs aren't set up yet.

Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with Bob's source, 1000bulbs.com. Because of their myriad of mistakes, it took weeks for the right bulbs to get here. No telling how many phone calls and e-mails it took on my end.

I sent everything back and ordered from one of Clara's sources - the one that's not FarmTek. I didn't trust 1000bulbs to make it right if one of the bulbs burned out prematurely, etc.

When the bulbs from the new company arrived, we discovered that 2 of the 3 outlets in the orchid room don't work. My dream of ten 42W CFLs in the orchid room is yet to be realized. DH and I are discussing electrician vs. extension cord. No resolution so far.

Meanwhile, orchids in that room don't know they're missing out on light. The Paphinia cristata just finished blooming, and the Ang fastuosa may be spiking - gotta post a picture for Mr. B. Even the Phal Penang Girl 'Ching Ruey' is in spike for the 1st time since it arrived 2+ years ago.

To be continued...

Whitecat8

Congrats WC. Isn't it fun? I'm having luck with 18 - 23W CFL's in octopus floor lamps. Can't go any higher with those, but the Phals and even some Catts are loving them. Got that little Den to bloom. Amazing!

Let us know what happens,
Jane

To give different aspect on an experience with 1000bulbs:

I ordered from them on-line and when mine arrived I did not think 1 of the 4 85's worked, as when I screwed it into a known good working brooder fixture it would not light. I called 1000bulbs and explained the problem, they sent me a replacment with no hassles and asked that I keep the non-working bulb incase the manufacturer might want to have it sent back for inspection.

The new bulb arrived it worked and all was well.

After finding out I did not need to return the non-working bulb, I tried it in another fixture (I had bought larger brooder lamps after seeing the length of the 85's) and it worked??? I went back to the original brooder lamp I tried it in and low and behold, the 'shallower pan' portion of the brooder lamp was not allowing the bulb to be fully screwed in.

So long story short, 1000bulbs was great to me in this instance and I got a freebie in kind of a bad way ;-)

I will say that having replaced my 400watt MH HID with 4 85's has helped my plants in that area. Not because there's more lumens or less heat, but because I can actually get the lights much closer (thanks Clara!) to the plants now and they seem to be liking that change. So 20,000+ lumens at @4"-6" inches away, seems to be doing better for me than 36,000+ was at @10"-16" and futher once you get away from being directly under the single light... The footprint of my CFL lights are now spread across an 18" x 48" area, whereas with the HID it was about 12" x 18". I use about the same wattage as before, but I think I use it much more effeciently now. IMO: Overall better coverage with the CFL's and cheaper purchase-wise and energy/heat-wise.

I like 'em!!!

Bob

Hi, Bob,

My guess is that 99% of 1000bulbs orders go fine. For whatever reason, most of the things that could have gone wrong with mine went wrong. I've been in sales and joked w/ staff that 80% of the problems stick to 20% of the orders, and my order was in that 20%.

Because of that, and because they didn't get things straightened out anywhere in the long process, I went with another vendor. By starting all over, my chances of being in the 80% of orders w/ no problems seemed greater.

The folks @ 1000bulbs were pleasant throughout, and I'm not surprised you had a good experience. If the moon had been in a different phase when I placed my order, I might have, too.

Whitecat8

Thanks Calvin and Howard. Since I have already invested in the Metal Halids/HPS, I will get a new bulb and continue to use it. I am hoping Santa brings me a few 85watt CFL's and reflectors! Liz