Water Hyacinth Fatal to Koi?! Taro too?

16 years ago

On the thread about favorite internet sites someone pointed me towards koi-bito.com and I am really enjoying reading what full bore koi enthusiasts have to say. They basically seem to take the stance of "plants and hard core koi ponds don't go together" since you need to micromanage and easily clean/maintain your pond. I guess if I had 100grand fish in my pond I might think similarly.

That being said....in a post about poisonous plants two different people said that Hyacinth bulbs can be fatal. My assumption is you would need BIG koi to eat a bulb or is a Water Hyacinth different than a "hyacinth" ? Taro and Iris are listed as well. I have all three in my planted area of my pond. Should I worry?

I ask here because I think these folks with veeeery expensive fish would list anything that might have the slightest risk to their fish. Kinda like first time parents who won't leave the house with their kid until they are walking ;)

The thread to which I am reffering is linked below

Here is a link that might be useful: Poisonous Plants for Koi Thread

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Comments (9)

tomkaren
16 years ago
Water Hyacinth is very different from regular Hyacinth. Regular Hyacinth is a bulb that is a spring bloomer and planted like tulips. Water Hyacinth I believe is so named because the flowers look like the other.
ccoombs1
16 years ago
I wouldn't worry. Water hyacinth is not going to hurt your fish, but regular hyacinth is toxic. Most plants that are toxic it's the roots, which your fish won't be munching on anyway.

Koi-bito is a fantastic site, but like you said, they are hard-core koi keepers. Many (most) of the people on that site keep show quality koi in very large and deep (8') ponds with a stocking rate of one fish (female only) per 1000 or 1500 gallons. The water in those ponds is kept pristine and plants are not conducive to keeping a plant free of all organic matter since they do shed dead leaves and roots all the time. Besides....most plants could not stand up to the abuse that a 36" long koi could dish out.
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Wow LP, that is an impressive set-up. I was going to suggest more aggressive water changes, but you state that water is so expensive. We do have have to use de-clor in our water, so we run fresh water in the pond everyday with the hose. We let the hose run for about 10 minutes, and estimate that we change about 35 to 40 % of the water each week. We clean the filter pads once a week and only run the skimmer in the Spring and fall to collect the tree droppings. We have also discovered a wonderful filter medium -- 'Easter Grass'. We put it into waldmart laundry bags (they cost 1.50 each) Fill the bag with Easter grass 1/2 way up, tie off the center and turn it inside out so that it is in half. (So that there is more netting so that the grass doesn't escape) Put it in your filter box (keep it away from any pumps, in case grass escapes, you don't want it to clog your pump) Rinse it off once a week, when you clean the filters. We discovered this a few years ago, originally we meant it to use as bio-filtration but discovered was fantastic as mechanical filtration. You can't believe the stuff clinging to this grass every week. Here is a photo of the new one we made up this spring. here it is inverted inside out, before placing in the pond Lily, Here's a shot of a "fish out of water"
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I did an experiment years ago with WH, as I had the same problem as OP. The thinking then, I think on this very forum, was a lack of potash. My experiment was to test if too much potash could be added. I added 5 lbs to a 30 gal tank. The sickly WH did take off. And goldfish eggs that hitched a ride on the roots hatched and grew normally. So the experiment did show high levels of potash seem to do no harm. However, later experiments showed basically what buyorsell888 said, the fish ate the WH roots. In my case it was Goldfish. It was not obvious damage, just enough to limit growth. So in the potash experiment it wasn't the potash that caused the growth, it was that they were protected from fish. When the WH were put into a tank with pond water and no potash they grew very well also. While the cause of poor growth can be many things it seemed like fish were the most common cause when talking to other pond keepers. You can test your pond by protecting the roots to see if that helps or adding pond water to another tank and putting some WH in there to see if they improve. If they do you know it isn't a nutrient problem.
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To a human the water looks still. At the microscopic level it's Mr Toad's wild ride. Thermal current, wind, fish and insects swimming. Take a look at your pond water under a microscope and you'll see a disco. And the bacterial world, even smaller. The weird thing about bacteria is they may not be aware you've set up a lovely filter for them. These unappreciative creatures just set up shop where ever there's food. Pond surface, plants, plant roots, Even those tiny specks of particles suspended in the water look like planets to bacteria (well, very small planets, OK, moons, maybe asteroids). Total surface area inside your pond is probably a few hundred times greater than the total surface area in the filter. And as matter builds up in the filter and cogs it the less of a home for bacteria. I've actually never cleaned a pond that didn't have a complete dead and cogged "bio filter". I'm sure they exist, somewhere. Bio filters are needed for high fish loads and basically spotless ponds. They are just for the removal of ammonia and nitrate. What's your ammonia level? Zero? If it is zero what are you trying to reduce it to? I'd bet serious cash you could remove your bio filter completely and you'd see no increase in ammonia. Try it. I don't know your pond so there is some chance I'd be wrong. Keep the bio filter alive but separate from the pond. Measure ammonia. Ever see more than a trace I'm an idiot and you can hook the filter back up. Takes about a week to test. Do it and you will learn more about ponding than you ever will from books or the internet. Things are not as straight forward as they seem. So, I wouldn't really worry about "dead spots". If you are they'd be very easy to test for using an ammonia test. Then your mind would be at ease.
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sleeplessinftwayne
16 years ago
I will look at that site tonight. It sounds interesting. It is not the way for me though. I just can't imagine paying that much for one fish. It is kind of like going to the Dog or Cat shows where they select the best of breed. I wind up going to the local shelter to select a pet. A mix breed is often more appealing and a lot less costly. We did wind up with a pure bred Dalmatian at a shelter once. We spoiled her rotten and she thought she was a lap dog. She was ditzy as they come though. Sandy
sleeplessinftwayne
16 years ago
Obviously I am ditzy, too. Sorry about that.
The plants you mention, Taro, iris and water hyacinth are not poisonous to your fish. I have seen too many destroyed in minutes by hungry koi.There are many lists out there that proclaim this plant or that is poisonous to fish but the big problem with plants is usually that they harbour such things as parasites and other unwanted pests. Most of the things that might be harmful won't be sold by a good source. Keep seeds and fruit out of the pond. Those can be a problem. Koi and comets enjoy peas popped out of the shell. Sandy
Ann_in_Houston
16 years ago
koi are definitely fatal to water hyacinth, not the other way around.
marge727
16 years ago
Ann is so right about the water hyacinth --its surprisng how the koi actually seem to nibble at them. At this point we have three ponds. The one with the huge koi is 18 feet long by 20 inches. We raise water lilies and hyacinth in the other two and throw the water hyacinths in to the big koi now and again. they need the greenery. My son used to throw in lettuce to them every so often. We use the professional koi food mixed with one kind of pellet that contains vitamins. But I hand feed small pieces of raw chicken liver. At one point we had water lilies that were protected so the koi couldn't dig them up but they chewed the lilies anyhow.
In very large naturalized garden ponds they do have water lilies, water hyacinths, water lettuce and other plants.
sltripp_gmail_com
12 years ago
My concern about water hyacinth and goldfish is the salt. I've heard that water hyacinth are extremely intolerant of salt but that goldfish do better with salt. Anyone care to comment? I know this is an old string but maybe someone is still out there? I just lost a new smallshubunkin and can't figure out why. I wondered if the plants make too much detritus for the fish.

Thanks!
keithtx
12 years ago
It depends on the salt level. More sensitive things die first. If the level goes higher even water lilies will die. Lotus are quite sensitive & all our died in about a year while before they were going crazy. I think we were about 1/2 the higher dose but don't recall the salt %, as was years ago. The lilies lived. No longer have salt because I like plants too much. You can dig up a post that said what salt level was safe for which plants. I know I saw one.
ksnape43
6 years ago
I realise this thread is old but would like to tell you about my experience on the weekend with water iris and koi. We cleaned out our very large pond on the weekend. Everything was removed, all 14 koi safely transferred into another container, all water iris's were broken up, repotted with new soil mix (from our supplier) and cut back for new growth to start everything off fresh again. Water was balanced and left to circulate through the filter for 2 hours. Fish returned to their home to explore. Next morning all 14 fish were dead :( on googling I have now found that the sap from the water iris is toxic. Very hard and expensive lesson for us to learn. I have spoken to our koi supplier and they were unaware of this problem. While I had bought 5 new fish on Sunday the other 9 were large koi that we had had for years :(

Water Hyacinth Fatal to Koi?! Taro too?

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