I have five big regular frogs, 1 medium, and 1 small. They were up almost all winter until February when it was very cold, but we also had moths and worms during the warm winter. They went in the pond all of February and the first week in March but are all up now. No losses. The earthworms are out in force tonight with all the rain and today it was 75 degrees, but tomorrow is supposed to be 40, and then will warm back up. I only had a skim of ice for a few days this winter in the large pond and had 10" of ice on the small pond on the north side of the house when the pump and thermopond failed, but after I opened up a hole and reached down I felt a live frog swim from my hand. I saw that one last week alive and well. Knock on wood I've not lost a frog yet due to winter, but I think a heron got one of my original 6 frogs. The biggest frog is 8 or more inches now - a real monster. I'm sorry you lost your frogs - I know I would be sad if that happened. You get attached after having them around for years. CT

I ditto tiller and others. Good advice from all so far. The only thing I would add about chemicals...is that there is one bottle of stuff you really should have, and that is a water treatment for Chlorine and Chlorimines. Chlorine is not that bad if you add less than 10-20% of your total amount at once. The fish can get Gill Burn if they play in the hose spray so put the hose in a area they can't get to. The chlorine will hurt your bacteria colonies in your bio filter but won't wipe em out. After a day or two contact with the air will dissipate the chlorine (it will go faster if you have an airator or waterfall). Chlorimines though are baaaad. They will never leave your pond without being treated with an additive. You can call your water company and see if they use chlorimines. If they do, then you need to get in the habit of using a neutralizer every water change. If they don't then you can get away without, unless you notice your plants being hurt by chlorine when you change the water. "Bad stuff" on the bottom are organic compounds like leaves, fish poop, dead fish etc. As it decomposes it will create a layer of mud called "muck". It's black and smells bad. If your pond ever has a sewer odor that's a sure sign that your muck has run amok and the fish are in danger. When this happens oxygen levels drop and you start getting brown algae and your water will look like rootbeer. Anaerobic bacteria start to go to work in the oxygen free environment. This is a fish death sentence. You should regularly scoop out the majority of the muck leaving as little as possible on the bottom after it settles back down. "Regularly" depends on your pond. More trees, dust, pollen, weaker filter etc mean you need to clean it up more or less than others. There is no rule about how often to clean. To clean out muck, you just need to scoop it out. You can do that by hand, with a bucket or shop vac. One thing I like is this little attachment that goes on the end of a garden hose. The flow of the hose water creates venturi suction that pushes the muck into a little nylon bag. Keep in mind that with any of these options you will stir up the muck and it will take a day or so to see improvement. If you do it regularly, the stirred up muck isn't a problem for the fish. But if you have a deep layer of it you might want to do what destany said above, and move the fish into a container for a bit (filled with pond water!) as all those bad compounds will be spiked during the clean. If your depth is closer to 3 feet I would still think about either getting rid of the goldfish (donate them to a pet store or other ponder) or the koi. With either 3 koi or 11 goldfish you have about the right fishload. But with both, you have about double what you will need in a year or so when they get big. If you are dead set on keeping all of them, you need to plan on losing some to stress or plan on getting a heavy duty biofilter and/or doing regular muck sweeping.

dang it....I had a really well though out response all done, and my internet explorer crashed. So I'll try again...lol!! First...a few comments regarding how koi ponds compare to aquariums. Normally, aquariums are lightly stocked with small fish. It's really easy to keep the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle operating perfectly in a correctly stocked environment. Same as a rock bottom pond...lightly stocked and properly maintanied it can work. In a pond's bio filter, ammonia is converted to nitrite and then to nitrate. Nitrate is most easily removed froma koi pond by way of regular water changes. Ever try to keep an aquarium with goldfish? Many goldie keepers I know keep no gravel in the tank at all, because of maintenance. That gravel gets really filthy very fast. I had a lovely goldie tank once....and gave it up. the maintenance was a nightmare! I'd rather deal with a huge koi pond any day of the week. Some people are reporting sucess with rock bottom ponds and no maintenance. Again...it is directly related to stocking levels. I hope these ponds continue to perform well for years to come, but for the vast majority of people, they will not. Most watergardeners install their ponds (and rocks) and then run out and buy a bunch of adorable little 5" long koi. The koi grow.....fast. They produce mountains of fish waste, which all gets trapped in the rocks. But because the pond looks clean, the owner is lulled into a false sense of security and does not think that there is a thing wrong, until the fish start dying or the fins start rotting off. Then they do one of two thing....they learn where they went wrong and correct their mistakes, or they just buy new fish (which is unfortunatly what most people do). Matt...you are on the right track with your new pond. You certainly can install your bottom drain now and add the rest of the system later. But instead of using a pipe cap, install a 4" ball valve on the end of the line. The water can't be permitted to sit stagnant in the unused drain line for too long or it will start developing the dreaded hydrogen sulphide gas. Opening that valve every couple of weeks and allowing the water to flow out for a couple of minutes will prevent the problems. I am attaching a link to the Atlanta Koi Club's web site. They have an excellent pdf that explains a lot about how a koi pond works, water quality, stocking levels, how much biofiltration is needed and many other wonderful facts. Cindy

Maggie, The kids are adorable. What cute poses! Have you recovered from Sandy? Your town sounds like it was hammered. Our library is built up on a good sized hill and is still standing. The town square was flooded badly. The post office and fire departments suffered damage but will recover. Our famous bascule bridge was opened during the storm and came through in better shape than we had a right to expect. So, all in all, our public infrastructure is wet, battered, but still in operation. Every week it seems we have one fewer "Closed Due To Storm Damage" sign around town. Progress is slow but is happening. A few downtown businesses are gone for good though. You are so right about the volunteers, agencies, faith based groups. We met people from all over the country here to help. Even Hawaii. Most of the FEMA people were retired and FEMA calls them to service during times of disaster. They are well seasoned in disasters and their calming influence was much needed. I was very impressed with how well all the volunteer groups buoyed the kids' spirits. They were scared and Mom/Dad were busy and preoccupied but it seemed like somebody was always quick to spot need and offer support, a Kleenex, or miraculously show up with a teddy bear. It does make you proud to be an American. I was also proud that there was no looting in our area so officials could concentrate their efforts elsewhere. Thanks for checking in. Hope you're okay or will be soon. /tricia