On average, plants use about 6x more N than P, so your 4-6-6 is already supplying 9x more P than your plant will/can use as related to N. You'll have a very difficult time building a case around the notion that a high-P formulation is ever appropriate for container culture, unless you're doing some very specific nutrient manipulations that are beyond the abilities of 99.9% of all hobby growers.

That you put huge amounts of P in the soil is no reason to believe plants will or can use it. Ultra high levels of P just add unnecessarily to the TDS and EC levels of the soil, raises pH, and can cause antagonistic deficiencies of (mainly) Fe and Mn, but other micro-nutrients as well.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: More info here

As mentioned, some garden tone is added at transplant... but months later after the plants have been growing and producing....... and the pots have been getting watered and leaching continues .... it is most definately necessary to replace leached nutes. The plants are inside, under HID. Currently two peach Habs, a pretty purple pepper, and a couple bhuts. Eventually some tomatoes and bell peppers will be added. Ive had great success growing inside under HID, Iincluding tomatoes and bells) but after awhile the soil goes lean and needs additional supplimentation.

The garden tone is a granular, and while I certainly could add more of it on a regular basis Im under the impression that granulars take awhile to be digested by bacteria and in return released for the plants usage.

Thats why Im inquiring about a liquid, organic source of nutes, that are preferably high in phosphorus to add support to the plants when they need it. Maybe I should simply add some additional bone meal as a top dressing once a month or so?? Im open to any suggestions as how to add additional supplimentation during fruit production.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. Adding huge amounts of P or any other nute to the soil was never my intention.

" Maybe I should simply add some additional bone meal as a top dressing once a month or so??"

On that note, what do you guys think about simply adding a tablespoon or two of the garden tone as a top dressing once a month or so (most plants are in 3 gallon pots, as mentioned primarily will be hot peppers, but some tomatoes and bells are in the future as well).

I really would like to find a liquid, organic fert that I can mix up and water with as a quicker more efficient means of getting the plants needed nutes during blooming and fruit production as granulars just intuitively seem best added directly to the soil during transplant. If top dressing with granulars is a way to get this done then I guess I could just do that but would love suggestions on how much and how often to top dress.

Thanks again I really appreciate any and all input!

Thats why Im inquiring about a liquid, organic source of nutes, that are preferably high in phosphorus

That's the point: high phosphorous fertilizers have no value in containers because there is no plant on earth that uses or can benefit from more phosphorus than nitrogen and potassium. Most plants use more calcium than they do phosphorus.

All that is accomplished with high P fertilizers is it makes it's way in the run off to the water bodies. Here is a link to what the CEO of DynaGro a synthetic fertilizer company said when asked about high P fertilizers.

In containers the most efficient way to fertilize is with synthetic liquids applied frequently, but at reduced dosage. This minimizes run off, keeps salt levels low and provides a more consistent availability of nutrients.

If that isn't something you wish to consider then granular Espoma products or other organics can do the job. Top dressing (scratch it in) can be done once a month or so. A tablespoon at a time is probably fine. Adjust the amount or frequency if you see a need, but keep in mind much of what's in the organic granulars takes a few weeks before you start to see it's effect.

Adding huge amounts of P to the soil may not have been the intention, but, as noted, 4-6-6 already has 9x more P than your plant can use, so I don't understand why you want to add more - and the 2-4-1 fish emulsion would have 12x more P than necessary.

..... and btw, bone meal breaks down so slowly that, practically speaking, you should consider it of no value in container culture.

Al

I see what your getting at now, which I think previously I wasnt understanding.

However, since the plants are in containers, and most plants are perennials and would be run indefinately as long as they produce... I still need a way to feed them on a continual basis several months after much has been used and leached from the containers soil.

How then would you suggest to replenish lost nutes. Again preferably and organic method. Unfortunately I dont have access (at this time) to compost.

"In containers the most efficient way to fertilize is with synthetic liquids applied frequently, but at reduced dosage. This minimizes run off, keeps salt levels low and provides a more consistent availability of nutrients. "

Thats a great plan, although I dont see why you couldnt use an organic liquid applied frequently to accomplish the same job. Maybe a manure, or casting tea with molassis... or something along those lines.

The main thing is I need a way to feed the plants during extending periods, and I DEFINATELY want to avoid high nitrogen. Hot pepper plants, Ive read, and learned .. hate lots of nitrogen. I know this from experience I used some coffee grounds in a peach habanero plant and the thing went crazy, doubling its size very quickly and blooming up a STORM. Problem is, all those blooms fell off... where before the coffee application, every bloom was developing a fruit body.

I appreciate the input ... learning a lot!

So what do you suggest then?

"4-6-6 already has 9x more P than your plant can use, so I don't understand why you want to add more"

... because the 4-6-6 was added months earlier at transplant time and eventually gets used up and/or leached out. Im not saying I need to add more at one time, I need to add more, at a later date... to keep the plants going.

Usually what I see is after transplant the plants are fine, grow and start bearing fruit.. then it seems around 3 months or so after transplant deficiencies start appearing. Its at this time Im looking for a way to replace lost nutes and keep fruit bearing performance at a peak (although I realize they will go through lulls and peaks in production naturally, despite being perennials)

Thanks again, looking forward to your suggestions....

..... but you were looking for a hi-P fertilizer when you don't need it. In terms of P, 1:1:1 ratio fertilizers like 20-20-20 already supply much more P than the plant will use. Any fertilizer with the middle number higher than the first number is supplying P at much greater rates than your plant actually needs. Plants use nutrients in extremely close to a 3:1:2 ratio (make sure you draw the distinction between RATIO and %s. 24-8-16 are the % of NPK, but 24-8-16 is a 3:1:2 Ratio.

Plants, because N is the most used nutrient, are usually supplied other nutrients as a % of N, and as JaG noted above, no plants use more P than either N or K, so supplying that much P is a waste.

Plants tend to take what they need and leave the rest, but anything 'extra' in the soil just makes it more difficult for plants to absorb water and the nutrients dissolved in water. As noted above, all that extra P is NOT an advantage, it's a hindrance. You can't do better than supplying nutrients in the same ratio as they are used at rates low enough to ensure plants can easily absorb water and high enough that there are no nutritional deficiencies. 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers come closer to that ratio than any other fertilizers, so my suggestion is to choose a 3:1:2 ratio fertilizer, or as close to that as you can get, and fertilize frequently at reduced rates. How frequently and at what rates will be dictated by the relationship between how fast your soil drains and your watering habits.

You can use organic fertilizers if you choose, but because they depend on soil biota to break them down into elemental form before plants can use the nutrients locked in organic molecules, and soil biota populations are unstable in containers, delivery is much less reliable and erratic. That is information you might need if you are primarily results oriented rather than self-limited by dedication to a particular ideology that eliminates all but 'organic' forms of nutrition.

Al

So what do you suggest then?

For simplicity sake I suggest using DynaGro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 (this isn't "high N") at 1/2 strength every week when plants are growing actively or 1/4th strength with every watering. This is a synthetic fertilizer.

If organic in containers is the route you wish to take then I would choose an Espoma or similar product in as close to a 3:1:2 or 1:1:1 ratio as they make. Mix it into the media and 1 month before you typically see the plants showing nutrient issues add another tablespoon or so. From that point on, repeat monthly and adjust if the plants indicate the need.

"If organic in containers is the route you wish to take then I would choose an Espoma or similar product in as close to a 3:1:2 or 1:1:1 ratio as they make. Mix it into the media and 1 month before you typically see the plants showing nutrient issues add another tablespoon or so. From that point on, repeat monthly and adjust if the plants indicate the need."

Exactly what I needed, and is along the lines of what I was thinking. I appreciate the confirmation and input guys ...