Hi magdaloonie,
I'm in zone 5, so I'm not sure I should be answering this. but....I've grown lotus in that size container, but then I put it 4-6" below the water surface level in a larger stocktank.
I think they can do okay with 4" of water above the soil, but I'm a little concerned about the small amount of soil that you would then use for the lotus. I think its possible that it would survive, but the number of blossoms might be decreased.
I wish Joyce would chime in here. Go to the Gallery part of this forum and read about how she grows her's in a few pots.
It might be enough soil if you fertilize it well, and thin it every year.
Be careful that it doesn't come out of dormancy too early. For some reason, if they come out of dormancy, and then get colder again, they die.
Check out the Gallery and what Joyce says about her lotus in a pot. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

Thanks, Catherine! I will look at Joyce's. The last thing I want to do is have fewer flowers. I have room in the stock tank for it or I have a deeper tub.
Woke up to snow this morning so I know it's not spring yet. I don't expect to put the lotus outside till May or so.
I'll let everyone know what happens.
Vanessa

So Joyce's method is WAY different from Bonnie Hale's. I'm digesting that when the tuber arrived. Really thought I'd have another day. I have no reason to think my instinct is infallable but I went with it anyway.
Rather than starting in water, I decided to go straight to wet soil. I ended up using a slightly smaller lily pot which will either be set in a half whiskey barrel or (carefully) transplanted into a whiskey barrel or large tub. Right now it's in the warm, bright bathroom but, going by Joyce, I am going to move it to my south side green house. It's unheated so it cools quite a bit at night but is quite warm during the day. There's a spot for direct sun once it leafs out. If temps drop drastically, I can pull it inside but I don't really think it'll freeze out there.
That greenhouse - built really for passive solar heat - has always been too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer to keep plants. Starting lotus might be the ideal use for it. We'll see!
Vanessa

Hi Vanessa,
What is bonnie's method? I grow large lotus in fairly small containers, but then I put them in stocktanks. I'm not real familiar with dwarf varieties. What are the main differences between Joyce's method and Bonnie's?
I don't know if this is just a wives-tale, but I've heard that transplanting them after they've started growing is really risky. And just remember, that once it starts growing, it doesn't need to freeze to die......just get cold enough to think it made a mistake by growing. So be careful.
And just remember.......even if you do kill it, you can always buy another one. Yes, they cost money, but you can still get another one. Alot of this lotus thing is a learning process. Don't be too hard on yourself if you lose a few.
My first year, I kept both lotuses in containers in plastic bags in my chicken coop storage room. I killed them. I think it was the plastic bags. Now I just bury them in the ground, or leave them in the bottom of my little in-ground stocktank. Good luck Vanessa!

Catherine, I think I read a post by you about storing in plastic bags and I took it to heart. Overwintering will either be in the stock tank or buried in the ground with a thick, insulating cover. I'm less secure about the second method.

Bonnie's instructions are to start indoors in pond or dechlorinated water till it gets the little white rootlets, then into soil, keeping indoors until it warm enough outside. I confess I'm a little confused by the info on her website so I might be misinterpreting. I have bright windows indoors but no real sunny ones so the greenhouse sounds better. I'm hoping the plant has some clue about what it should do with the colder nights but they don't really grow here on their own, do they? Maybe it'll be confused too! Still, all the conflicting info tells me they must be somewhat resilient. I'm sure one method will be better than others for me but I have to figure out on my own what that is. Then it can be shared with other high desert dwellers who miss water.

I said to myself today - if I kill it, I'm only out about $30 but I'll have gained some knowledge. I'm going to do my best not to kill it, though!
I'm willing to risk transplanting because the larger lotus pot isn't going to work on it's own and I may be moving the thing around a bit for a while. That 24" pot full of wet soil is going to be HEAVY. You use the galvanized stock tanks, right? I can get those smaller oval ones at the local feed store. I'd love to move this tuber into the bigger pot and put it in the bottom of one of those but, if I get nervous about transplanting, the pot it's in will do for this year. It's the minimum recommended size for the semi-dwarf.
Vanessa

Early June last year I bought a growing lotus from a local nursery and transplanted it haphazardly into the bog area of my pond. I kind of slid it out of the pot and into the depression I had made.

It turned out okay. I think the reason why is that it had so many growing points at that time that it could take having a couple of damaged.( I am not condoning it; Just sharing my personal experiences.)

It does seem like a lot of conflicting information is out there, and I always like to know the "why" of things=P

- John

John,
I've read your lotus adventures with no small amount of interest! I hope you'll be updating this spring. I, too, like to know why and, in the absence of real knowledge, I seem perfectly willing to form my own theories till proven wrong. It sure is exciting!
Vanessa

Vanessa,
I'm a little confused......will your lotus arrive as a tuber? I'm wondering if it would do better in light, wet soil in your basement in total darkness until it warms up outside?
I know that the larger lotus are hardy here (zone 5), but I'm not sure about the other ones. I sort of was forced to bury mine for the winter, because at the time, I didn't have an inground watergarden. I was scared to do it, but I've done it for about 5 years, and they've all been okay. I dig a hole that's a bit deeper than the pot, and just lower it in there. then I throw just a bit of loose soil over it, and then pile a bunch of leaves over it. Sometimes I cover it with a tarp, or a big plastic tub. Its important to water it a couple times over the winter too.
I've buried my water lilies also. I also buried a sage plant in a pot and it lived too. I've buried other things, but have forgotten what they were and where they were buried. hahaha

I have Rubbermaid stocktanks. I have about 3 100 gallon tanks (above ground), and 2 300 gallon tanks that are sunk into the ground. One I filled back up with dirt and planted a lotus in there, with about 6-8" of water over it.
This is its first winter, so I hope it survives. The water in there freezes solid.
I have lilies and lotus in the other big inground stocktank, and I keep a deicer in there in the winter, and they survive just fine.
The above ground stocktanks I empty and turn over for the winter. (I didn't do that last winter, and they filled with water, froze and cracked).

I think the thing you don't want to happen is to have it start to grow in the warmth of your house.......then you put it outside where its cold. That's when it has trouble.
The American lotus is a native to north america and grows naturally in lakes.
Isn't it Bonnie's site that has the good pics on it about how to thin a lotus? I think I got info from there.
I thinned a lotus for the first time last year. What's funny is.......we hear about how fragile they are......Well, I pulled out the tubers I wanted to keep and left the rest of the stuff in a pile in the yard. It was very dry for about a month. I decided to move that pile to the compost pile, and I found another tuber, so I threw it in the stocktank, and it grew! I couldn't believe it.
Keep us posted.

Catherine,
It's a tuber, alright, but you're the first to suggest I could hold it dormant for a while. It's probably been out of Bonnie's pond since Sunday or Monday. Do you suppose I could hold it now?

Well, perhaps I don't have too. It's was 25 deg. when I looked at the thermometer this morning but the sun was already over the mountains so it would have warmed up some. My greenhouse has a high-low thermometer. It was 40 deg. already (It'll be over 90 midday without venting) and it looked like the low overnight was 35 deg. In a couple weeks, it's not likely to be even that cold out there but Joyce said she puts hers out in March and there's sometimes ice on the water in the morning. Granted it's not so warm at her place during the day either. Oh, I don't know!

When I said they didn't grow here, I meant southwestern high dessert - NM and AZ and NV - unless someone plants and tends them. There's not a lot of year round water here. Putting a lotus in the Rio Grande is probably a capitol offense.

Bonnie does have a whole lot of good info on her website - plus the koi cam which is a hoot - but it seems to have been added to without being re-edited. Parts of it end up kind of hard to follow. On the lotus thing it seems clear to start in water but there's sentence or two that indicate that starting in water might be an alternate method. Then I don't see what the primary is. She is adamant about getting them into something asap, though.

The day job is interfering with my garden again. I have to go to work. I'll check in later, though. Thanks for helping!

Vanessa

Jobs.......they interfere with alot of things! lol!
My experience with holding tubers is limited, so I probably shouldn't be guiding you much more!
How much is your tuber growing? How many eyes does your tuber has, and how much are they sprouting?
My memory isn't the greatest. I get so mad that I can't remember really recent things. Anyhow....from what my poor little brain can remember.......Last spring, I thinned one of my lotus really early in spring, when it was warm out. I kept them in a bucket of water on my deck while waiting to plant them. Then.....it got really cold again. I brought them into the house during the night and on really cold days, but tried to take them back out into the sun on the less cold days....and they did fine.
I think the best thing for you to do is to avoid big fluctuations in the temp. My concern about your greenhouse is that its going to get sooooo hot in the afternoon, and then cold at night.
I think if I were you, I'd float them in a bucket of water and let them have the least amount of temperature fluctuation between day and night. I would probably keep something over the bucket, to keep light out, so its not too stimulated by that. A temp around the 40's would be good.
I know I agonized over those tubers of mine last spring and they did fine.
I hope I'm not driving you nuts!

Catherine, I looked in on your tropical lily thread. Nearly the same problem except we don't have the option of later shipping on the lotus. I'll be following what happens with your lilies, for sure!

I'm leaning toward Brazen John's attitude of "let's try it and see what happens". I could still de-pot the tuber, I think, but I won't have that option much longer. I find I'm very curious as to whether the greenhouse will work.

It's good to know that burying in the winter has worked for you. It surely will for me, then and I won't have to manuever a big pot in and back out of the stocktank. I was worried about dropping it, not to mention the frigid water I'd be wading in.

Vanessa

Oh, our posts crossed!

I wish I had bought two tubers just so I could try two different things. It's one nice fat tuber with 3 growing points and the start of a leaf. The green house can be held a little steadier by venting but not really much. I don't have a basement. I do have a studio that isn't being heated right now but there's a heater I could turn on low to keep it above freezing.
Hmmm. What to do...Better decide today, I think!

If you have any other ideas, please feel free to throw them in the mix!
(why does this thing sometimes reject messages in back & forth conversations? Annoying!)

Hi Vanessa,
Actually, I just wrote today in my topical lily post that I changed my order to have my tropicals come late May/early June.
I'm spending about $75 on them, and the warranty is voided if you request early shipping.......so I decided to be safe.
About burying my lotus and lilies.........In the stocktanks, they are in a container that's about 20"x8". They are VERY heavy. Those are the ones that I sink in the ground. Actually, my husband has to do it, since it weighs ALOT. I don't want to confuse you with too much info, so I'll wait until Fall to talk to you about your options.
Right now we have to focus on keeping your little puppy alive. :)
So......my final vote is to keep your tuber in water, and keep it cool and in steady temps.

P.S. I think they try to keep people from spamming here with hundreds of the same messages. So each time you quickly reply to the same topic, you must change the "subject of posting" a little.

OK! I think I'll leave the greenhouse experiment for another year. Maybe next year if I get a bunch of tubers! It sure helps to talk these things out.
Into a bucket of water she goes. I'm probably just too eager for spring anyway.

Umm, I guess I'd really better get back to work now.

Vanessa

Vanessa.......I think it matters more with fish than plants, but are you using chlorinated water? I have a well and forget that not everyone has one.

The tap water is chlorinated (not chloramine) but I have dechlor. I put the tuber in a covered bucket at lunch (yep. I get a lunch even though I spent a lot of time on the forum today!) with pond water - a gallon or so had been set out yesterday and had warmed up. I mixed that with about an equal amount scooped out of the stock tank. Felt cool but not cold. It's only been a hair over 24 hours since I unpacked it so it can't have had time to do much - she said with conviction.

It started snowing again. Sigh.

Vanessa

Its snowing here too.
By "high desert", does that mean that its desert, but high altitude? I guess when I see the word "desert" it sounds so hot to me!
I'm a little worried about the 300 gallon stocktank that we sank into the ground and filled with soil. All the plants in it grew great last summer, but I haven't kept it heated, and the several inches of water in it has frozen solid alot this winter. I'm not worried about the lotus and other plants, but I know there were little baby frogs in there, so I hope they dug down deep!
I have a snake that likes to live in there too, but I think he/she is hibernating under my deck.
I can't wait to hear those frogs this summer! (Hopefully the snake doesn't eat them all).
What kind of water garden do you have Vanessa?

Back on my own time now...

You got "high desert" right. I'm at about 6550' and the average annual precip is 11 or 12 inches. Pretty high and dry. It's not hot here at all. There are maybe a couple weeks in July when I wish I had air conditioning. It passes. I don't like to spread around how great our climate is. The village is under 1000 and I like it that way. Day job is real estate so that's a bit of a conflict!

Day tends to be 30 deg. warmer than night or more, though. It's the cold nights that are giving me trouble. The water garden is an above ground 8' galvanized stock tank. I decided on above ground because I had 2 20 gal. tubs last year and the above ground one was warm, but not hot. The one that was mostly buried stayed so very cold, even though it got more sun. That was the right decision, I'm sure and that's why I want the lotus in it's own container. I don't think the stock tank EVER got over about 74 deg.! It's those cold nights. Everything did OK but the above ground tub got to about 82 deg. and it was thriving.

I'm going to take this extra time to search for a container that will hold the 24" lotus pot and allow 4-8" water above the soil. At this point, it doesn't even need to be pretty!

I was also thinking I might work my way to a dug in lotus bog. Your frogs are part of the reason. The stock tank, which has a plastic cover now, is home to some lively water striders but I can't see frogs finding it and making a home. We have those ones here that bury themselves till sufficient rains come. I've heard them at night after the monsoons but I never could find them. I'd like to give them a home. But, again, the water/soil might not be warm enough for the lotus. I sure hope your frogs survive. I'll want to know and I know others will too.

BTW: You're awfully humble about what you know but it's really helped me a lot!

Vanessa

Thanks Vanessa,
I have sort of the poor man's watergardens........all stocktanks! And my experiences are pretty limited. When people here start talking about skimmers and waterfalls, etc., I'm lost. I pretty much just do lotus and water lilies and a few marginals. I swore last year that I would cut back this year, and now I'm getting more!
I think the tropical water lilies will be good, because they'll let me enjoy something all summer, that I don't have to deal with for winter. I feel bad about throwing them out, but I just haven't had any luck keeping them over winter.
I have to be careful about spring fever. I always get it with the water gardening stuff and my vegetable garden stuff......then when late June, July get here, I just can't keep up.
What I love about the above-ground stocktanks is that I don't have to lean over to far to really look at things!
I think they let the frogs escape from the snake too.
Last year I had tons of tree frogs, singing their hearts out and laying billions of eggs. I could even sit on the deck and start a conversation with them!

Vanessa........here's an idea we haven't mentioned (maybe we have......my mind is shot! haha).......How about a heavy plastic container that will hold the lotus AND 4-6" of water, but when it comes time to bury it, you drain that 4-6" of water and bury the whole thing? You might even be able to leave some of that 4-6" of extra container a little above ground level, as long as you cover it well with leaves.
(Hmmmm??? Do you have leaves up there in the high desert?) I'm not sure how to picture the vegetation up there.
Anyhow........that might give you less to worry about......Maybe use a 15" tall rubber container. Fill it with 8-10" of dirt, and the rest water, and you're done.
Do you have a tractor supply store anywhere near you?
I really like the various "Tuff Stuff" containters. Be sure to get a container with a lip on it to grab.......otherwise you'll never get it lifted.
Here's a link to a couple of the containers I've gotten. I use the 7 gallon one for my lilies and lotus. Its LDPE plastic and is rigid, which is good. Rubber is too wobbly.
I must warn you though, I'm more into practicality and functionality, so I might not have many pretty ideas! haha

You know, I didn't think about my in-ground stocktanks taking longer to heat up......but you're right! The ground definitely keeps things cooler.
I envy you being in a little town.
I live out in the country, but the development in this area has gone absolutely nuts, and its really changing things out here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tuff Stuff containers

I love my stock tank! This is an old cattle town and I think it works here. I considered disguising it but I like it's round stock-tanky nature. I think of the garden as "all about round" and I'll be adding more round things. Pennywort is on the agenda for spring. Besides, as you say, it much better on the knees. It's also harder for wandering neighbor dogs to take a dip, though judging by the damage, one managed it last year. I think he regretted it, though. Here's a picture from August last year. (see my "waterfall" in front of the skippy!)

{{gwi:185676}}

You were right to wonder about leaves, though. Unless someone plants something else, our trees are pinon pines and juniper. We have low shrubs, grasses and prickly pear cacti. I have 2 chinese elms in the yard. They're all over town along with that awful tree of heaven but nothing makes those big piles of leaves. What I do have is a friend who is a woodworker. He often has big piles of sawdust and planer shavings. I've been trying out the shavings as an insulating mulch this year and I think it's good.

I was thinking about those kinds of tubs myself! No Tractor Supply here but there's a local feed store where I might be able to get something. There's also a builder supply in the next town. I'm going for another reason tonight and I already planned to stop at the builder supply to see what they have. They have galvanized stock tanks out back so they might have the smaller plastic ones too. I've never looked.

As for spring fever - I swore no more seeds. They're so hard to get started, the cats think the seed beds were dug for their use and I've overdone the last 3 years planting more than I have time to tend. So last weekend I went to the hardware store for one roll of masking tape. Came out with one roll of tape and 9 packets of seeds.

Vanessa

I love your set-up. And I love those benches! Surely you had help moving that rock!?

Another idea for leaf substitute, if your friend runs out of sawdust/shavings, is bales of pine shaving bedding from the feed store. I use it for my chickens. It comes in compressed bales and there's lots of it in there for about $5. Be careful with the sawdust that you let the buried plants get enough air. Cedar shavings aren't good for chickens......so I don't know if they would be bad en masse over a plant?? They give off methol gas, or something like that.
Does it stay warm enough there in the winter that your stocktank doesn't freeze solid?
Any signs of rust on it yet?
I really like Rubbermaid stocktanks, but the galvanized ones are definitely more earth friendly.
LOL about buying all those seeds. I can sooo relate.
Actually, I tried to grow heirloom tomatoes from seed a couple years ago, and the rabbits ate most of them right after I put them out...after all those months of taking such good care of them! I had a few left over and planted them (after reinforcing the fence), and they grew, but they seemed alot more susceptible to diseases. At the time my life was much too busy to be messing around with seed growing, so I pretty much just buy my plants from the nursery.
I'm really a tree person, and live in the woods, so I think I'd have trouble not having tons of trees around.
How long is your growing season there?
Last summer I grew birdhouse and dipper gourds for the first time. They're drying on the porch. I'm looking forward to working with them.
Well, time to be productive. Nice talking to you!

Hah! Busy home improvement and gardening weekend.
My woodworker friend uses mostly local, untreated ponderosa pine. I put a thick layer over the front garden and I noticed yesterday that daffodil and daylily leaves are poking through! Yay! Good tip about the bedding. I can get that here if he runs out.
Back in December, we had an extended cold spell followed by another in early January. The ice on the tank was at least 4" thick. The skippy was still running for circulation (and a pretty sound) but I was thawing every morning with pots of boiling water and I worried that either the ice would pop my seams or the water would pour over the ice and out. I drained the skippy and built a frame out of scrap boards and covered it with heavy plastic It never even got a skim of ice after that. It was like a temporary greenhouse. We get lots of sun, even when it's cold, though. I wonder if it would work for you.
I actually took the plastic off today as I don't expect it to get that cold again but the frame is still there just in case.

I don't really know how long our season is. I've been here 5 years and it's been different every year. Shorter than I'm used to from years in Ohio and Tennessee, though. We had a freeze last year in the first week of April. Lost a few expensive plants because I jumped the gun! Apparently, that's typical.

I was 13 years in the woods of Tennessee. It was beautiful like a park but I missed the sky. Those trees must have been 80-100' tall! Now I can watch meteor showers in my own back yard. The family thinks I'm nuts but I give them a nice place to visit. I also have a greater appreciation of shade, now.

The builder supply was closed by the time I got there yesterday but I'm headed to the feed store tomorrow. I'm thinking I should pot that tuber in mid-March. I'll post the lotus progress, for sure!

Vanessa

Hi Vanessa,
I don't have any experience with metal stocktanks. I know several people here do have them. I have several 100 gallon Rubbermaid stocktanks that I've left filled with water over many winters and they did fine. But last winter, it was really cold and they froze solid......the entire depth, and split open the bottoms. I always thought if the top was open that much, it would just expand upwards, but that didn't happen. I think the top freezes first, and then becomes too heavy to expand, when the bottom freezes. So I've learned that I have to empty them all and turn them upside down for winter.
Is your stocktank really heavy, when empty? How did you get it to your house?
Does your pond attract many frogs?
I've got to slow myself down. I'm getting too excited about spring. I need to go back and read all the "CAUTION-DO NOT OVERPLANT NEXT YEAR- YOU'LL REGRET IT" notes I've written to myself! haha
Have you ever drained your stocktank? Do those metal ones have drains? Mine have drain plugs, but I caulk them and never use them. I'm afraid of them leaking when I don't want them to.
I really feel conflicted about that snake that lives here. I know he eats my frogs.....but he's part of the same "circle of life", so I just let him be.
Fortunately, our property is half woods, half open spaces. I love star-gazing too. Unfortunately, there is so much development on the horizon, that the lights are beginning to ruin the night sky.
I'll bet you see some great shows out there! Do you watch the Perseid and Leonid showers?
How about the northern lights? Can you see them from there? We've seen them here a number of times.
What great shows this natural world puts on!

"CAUTION-DO NOT OVERPLANT NEXT YEAR- YOU'LL REGRET IT"
Hah! I need these notes all over my house, my wallet, my computer...

What you say your tanks did when they froze is exactly what I worry about the metal ones doing. It really didn't come close to freezing solid but a smaller one might have. Wish I'd gotten the 12 foot though!
I ordered it through the Feed Store (her name is Catherine, too) and she actually got it from the builder supply in the next town when she was placing an order for the feed store. I was all set with a friend with a truck to pick it up but she just had them deliver it to my back yard and then she and I rolled it over closer to where I wanted it. Love small town service! (She's a friend, too)
Anyway, it's really not very heavy but it's very awkward. Two people can move them but 3 would be better.
There is a drain plug but I caulked around it, too. I have a tiny leak toward the top of the side seam - just slowly dribbles when it's very full. I'm going to slap a bit of scrap liner over it with non-toxic underwater glue as I do NOT want to drain it and have it welded!

I just bail out water for water changes. That's good water so it goes on the garden. If I have to drain, I will siphon or something. No sign of rust but I've only had it since last summer. I didn't coat it like some people have. If I'd have been going to bury it, I might have. Automotive undercoating, or something. Sadly, no frogs (yet) but I'm hopeful. I like snakes, too and I'd be glad to have one move in but I've no desire for a rattler in the yard! My idiot cat would try to play with it. That's what I'm most likely to get, I think. One of the other cats was playing with a big black widow yesterday. She found it in the green house - where I often have windows wide open!

Have we got stars! There are radio and optical observatories all around us so there are light ordinances to keep it dark. The milky way was breathtaking Saturday night. I try to catch as many meteor showers as I can but they peak when I'd rather be sleeping! I dozed in a plastic lounge chair last summer, though. Woke every now and then, saw a meteor, fell back asleep. It was grand! No northern lights though. I've never seen them. The few times in Ohio when I could have, it was cloudy.

gotta go!
Vanessa