I would skip the "electric" tiller idea and get one with a little power. Unless your ground is fluffy you'll be very sorry with the lack of performance of electric machines, they just don't cut it.

Greg
Southern Nevada

My default from much hard-earned experience is always get the biggest tiller available. Electric tillers don't even register in my mind. Renting an 11-horse for 2 hours should be ~$35-45 and will save your back and much time and handle anything you need.

Dan

Thanks for the quick response, Greg. DH says the same thing - not enough power in a little tiller.

But I just want something that *I* can deal with. He always buys big heavy-duty equipment and most of the time, I can't even get it *started*, much less being able to run it. Plus storage is an issue. Small would be better.

I just checked with HD after reading your message and think I'll rent a little Mantis. I think it'd be worth it to try it for myself.

But still don't know whether or not I really NEED to till and smooth out everything...or just try and even it out with lasagna layers.

Well, you have to do what you feel is right for you but I think that you'll quickly find that a little Mantis is just going to skip across the top of your soil and not till anything. Why don't you get DH to rent a real tiller and till it up for you?

Greg
Southern Nevada

Oh ... I just remembered what I did years ago, for that first clean up / tilling of a new garden. I found an older guy with a tiler in our little local nickel ads paper. He was great, and the cost was comparable to renting one plus all the fuss. I suspect it got him out of his wife's hair in the mornings and added to their retirement living expenses. He sure knew what he was doing and probably did a better job than I would have with a rental.

I wonder what you could find locally? Seems like lots of folks would like a little extra money and not be charging an arm and a leg.

Yeah, but wouldn't it be cool to have a little tiller to do other stuff with? I think so.

But again, nobody has really answered the question of whether it really should be tilled up or left alone.

If it were me I'd till it all up, rake it flat and start over again. How big of an area are we talking about here?

Greg
Southern Nevada

But again, nobody has really answered the question of whether it really should be tilled up or left alone.

Not able to with scant info provided. But if'n it were me I'd rent a big tiller and do what Greg sez.

Dan

If you are going to build a Lasagna bed on that area there is no good reason to till that soil and that the ground is uneven matters not since the Lasagna bed will, eventually, even that out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lasagna Gardening 101

How quickly do you want to plant this bed? If you want to plant right away, then a tiller or manual digging is a good idea. If you are willing to wait 6 months minimum and plant in the spring, then skip the tilling now and put down a thick lasagne bed. I think this will take care of a lot of the weeds and lumpiness.

I would weed whack or mow the weeds first, then put down a layer of cardboard, newspaper or other paper products to smother the weeds (and the worms love the paper). Then put down at least 3-6 inches thick of layers of organic matter. I've used leaves, grass clippings, coffee grounds, etc. and let it sit thru the winter, if its moist it will decompose faster.

The weeds will be smothered (hopefully, if they're not too stubborn), the lumpy ground underneath will soften, and the bed will be much easiser to turn with a fork or till in the Spring, if necessary. In my experience, these beds just get better over 2-3 years as they break down, and the plants grow like nuts!

Don't be too quick to put down those little Mantis tillers. It's surprising how much you can do with them if you take the time. Granted, if you have a big area and/or heavy weed cover it will need a big tiller but the mantis do a pretty good job if used right. Sears has one that I suspect is made by Mantis except for the name on it.

Terrene and Kimmsr,
This is kind of what I was thinking...I tend to make extra work for myself sometimes with my need for perfection.

Then I get discouraged because I can't get it all done.

I'd still like to try the little tiller though. For other things.

Is it just me or is it mostly the women who are for the little tillers -- with the men being again' them?

>>> Yeah, but wouldn't it be cool to have a little tiller to do other stuff with? I think so. Yes ! I love my good tools. :)

>>> Is it just me or is it mostly the women who are for the little tillers -- with the men being again' them? It's possible they don't see things like this from a woman's point of view. When we are forced to ASK for help tilling, we are essentially asking for permission. If the other half disapproves of this garden choice, he's probably not going to help. He may want endless discussions. He my be obligated elsewhere, so we have to wait and wait. He may forget. How often is reminding him kosher and how often is it nagging ? So yes.. it is like asking for permission to me. Then it starts raining and we wait for next season.

Relationship harmony can be greatly enhanced by having our own tools. Tools designed to work with the size of our bodies. I'm pretty sure I don't want to Google rototiller injuries.. . some no doubt caused by useing a machine to big for the operator.

For the 18 years before DH #2 passed away, I can say we never had one fight. Never, and I had my own tools. I even painted several of them pink. I called them 'Girl Tools', since he was a big guy and we always laughed about it. I was more than happy to have help, but I never asked permission. " Here, let me help", was the way we worked things out.

So it sounds like you may try one out by renting ? That sounds really cool. :)

Over the years, I have done tons of yard and garden work by hand. Routinely dug large beds, dug out 40 yr old shrubberies, weeds and tree roots, screened rocks, etc. Now I am middle-aged, single mom with a teenager, landlord, lots of crap to do, so trying to think about the smarter and most efficient ways to do things. I still dig and weed a lot, and pick rocks, but usually it's less work to do lasagne, or sheet composting to make a garden bed. For paths, I lay down cardboard/newspaper and spread wood chips. Instead of digging out a large shrub, I'll cut it at the base and pile organics on top to discourage resprouting and facilitate rotting (I admit to using a judicious application of herbicide on the cut stumps of invasive plants like Buckthorn).

The other consideration for me is trying to reduce the carbon footprint of the house and garden. Which means to minimize the use of electric or gas-powered tools where possible. However, soil that is particularly difficult to dig or compacted by construction, for example, may require a tiller or tractor.

I'm no longer certain that tilling is in the best interest of my garden. My gardening beliefs have changed over the years; I've always amended my gardens with organic material---mostly seaweed, hay and manures---but I used to be a tiller and now my sole focus in my garden is attracting worms to it. I'm not sure how much damage tilling does to a worm population, but it would be counter-productive for me to harm that population at all, because I've also come to believe that worm castings are my best friend in the garden.
(I might never have stopped tilling, except that my rocky construction mess cannot be tilled, so I had to amend with thick mulches.)

>>I'm pretty sure I don't want to Google rototiller injuries.. . some no doubt caused by useing a machine to big for the operator.
You mean like this woman who was apparently killed by her rototiller?

I don't think the plants will care if the soil is uneven. If I were digging through the mulch to plant a plant and found an uneven spot, I might smooth it out as I plant the plant. But if I'm planting a seed, I just don't think the plant cares if the ground isn't perfectly flat.

I think that many people feel like their garden is tidy if they have made it into a flat, smooth, nicely 'fluffed up' place. It sure looks tidy! But the act of tilling completely disrupts the food soil web.

I would just keep piling up the organic matter like Ruth Stout suggests. Try for 8", it will probably settle down to 3".

If you want to 'spike' the soil to encourage the earthworms, pull the mulch off the garden, put a layer of shredded leaves directly on the soil, then put the rest of the mulch back on top of the leaves. The worms will come to the surface and pull the leaves down into the soil.

The roots of plants get the bulk of their nutrition from the top 1" of soil, IF the soil has been allowed to stratify into the typical O,A,B,C layers. The interface between the mineral soil and the mulch on top is where the action is. Don't stir it up. Just feed it.

Good luck.

The only soil that I have seen over the years that benefited from tilling is a black clay soil over around the Okemos/East Lansing area of Michigan. That soil had lots of organic matter applied for many years but they never mixed together until some of the OM was tilled in, once.
Most every other soil I have worked on the interface between the soil and mulch blurs quickly and the soil bacteria move the mulch into the soil,

Maybe someone else mentioned this obvious solution?, but you can level out the area by simply applying thicker layers of lasagna in the dips.

As I recall that was something that Pat Lanza had mentioned in one of the articles about Lasagna gardening she wrote. Since pat Lanza is the one who described Lasagna gardening, first, she would probably be the best source of information about how to do it.

Anybody know where you can find a girl- sized chain saw? BTW, I once saw a very cute, pink little 9N tractor. I used to love my 9 N, a perfect girls tractor for doing heavy garden work on larger properties. I'll be looking for one again when we move back to the country.
I here you on the boys and girls tools. Hubby is worried about me using the chipper, afraid I'll stick my arm in it!

Electric Tillers DO WORK GOOD. Sometimes I wonder if the people negating them have even used one? I have used two gas tillers, one a mantis and another a 5.5 HP Yard machines. Both worked great but I could'nt keep up with all the gas "stuff/upkeep" of the 5.5 HP.

I just got a small electric SunJoe from Amazon after reading MANY GOOD reviews. It works great! It even takes out sod. And is a lot easier to handle than the gas one.

tracydr, I use a small electric chainsaw, the bar is only 12-14 inches, and has a chain brake for safety. It is light and easy to handle. The best part is it is so easy to start--push a button and your cutting wood. I have wore myself out trying to start a gas chainsaw. I leave the bigger jobs for hubby and his "big" saws.

okay... I finally followed the link to see how the poor woman was killed by her rototiller, and thinking as perhaps many of you were.. " It's got to be stupid people that do things like that".

Nope, not at all:
McQuain was an assistant clinical professor at the Northern Arizona University School of Nursing.

Actually I see how she could have thought it was going to be okay to do... poor lady, and her poor family.

I apologize for being late to the party, but being a little woman (5'4", 120 lbs) with a little tiller (Mantis) I thought I'd wade right in.

My soil is heavy clay. Unless soil conditions are PERFECT for the mantid, it either cannot till at all (bouncing maniacally on the surface), or gets fouled with debris within two minutes.

The mantid cannot be used to till in organic matter, whether unbroken sod, live green manure, or dead dried manure in any stage. Anything that is not soil will rapidly wrap itself around the axles of the mantid, forcing you to stop every five minutes to try to remove the debris without burning yourself. You'll need to take off the wheels in the process each time to get to the debris on each side of each wheel.

That being said, it does a good job, if you work within its limitations. The soil has to be relatively free of debris, and not wet, but not bone dry, either. You'll need to work back and forth a few times for the tiller to dig down and really turn the soil.

I also use the mantid quite a bit to trench areas for irrigation mains and conduit for security cameras. I've also got the edger, which I plan to (but haven't yet attempted) to use to give my garden beds a crisp edge for easier mowing.

I have found that I can start the mantid quite easily, and control the bucking adequately. One has to have a strong spirit to fight with the bucking beast at times, however.