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can neem oil mix with safer's soap?

17 years ago

hi, it's me again, i bought some neem oil and some safer's soap because i have scales and spidermites :i read on the neem oil i have to mix it with water and soap, so i was thinking, can i just mix it with the safer's soap, since it is a kind of soap?

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Comments (9)

jamcm
17 years ago
When they're talking soap on the neem oil's tag, they really mean more of a plain dishwashing soap.

Julie
bob123how
17 years ago
jam is right, dish soap. DO NOT use safers and neem together! Safers has sulphur and neem is an oil and the combo will burn your leaves. Wait a month if you're going to switch between the two.
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I wouldn't go spraying "dish soap" on plants. I think that idea came from "insecticidal soap" and people being cheap. I've heard of a lot of people who've damaged their plants grabbing any old soap they had. There are a lot of different soaps with a lot of different ingredients. Unless someone tells you exactly what soap they used and how much they used I'd let it go in one ear and out the other. There's a lot of good "organic" information out there, there's also a lot of crap. The kitchen cabinet stuff tends to lean towards the crap side of things. Adding soap to a spray is something different than "great for bugs". That is creating a "sticker". I've learned to be careful with real stickers. I wouldn't dare mix my own without a lot of testing. As far as oil, again unless someone gave you the exact recipe and you are able to go back on them when it kills your plants I would stick to bought brands that you can go back on. By the time you went out and bought a bottle of seasame oil, figure out the right amount of soap to use to get it to suspend in water, experiment on some parts of your plants to make sure it won't kill them you really wouldn't have saved much over buying proper dormant oil where all the testing has already been done. If you really want to make your own dormant oil there is a recipe floating around but it's mineral oil and an oil soap. I'm not sure if it's OK to use as a summer oil.
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I had a hard time finding Safer as I remember seeing it, recently as in today at Home Depot. I did find a product called Garden Safe. It came as an insecticide, a concentrated insecticide for outdoor use and a fungicide. I got the Fungicide 3 as it is labeled for rust fungus. I can't imagine what the difference between the insecticide version is, but I did not look at the ingredients of it. The Fungicide 3 has Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil as its active ingredient. It is labeled to treat Black Spot, Rust, and powdery mildew for fungus, Aphids, Whiteflies and other insects and lastly spider mites for mites. I bought this because the rust seems to be minimal and it is too cold to take them outside and spray them with something more aggressive. If you can a systemic would of course be better. Safer like products are a good first step if your problem is general, preventative, or minimal and if you can't safely use a more dangerous product. I have never had an issue with fungus so I can not attest to its effectiveness. Remember fungus is usually a product of too damp/dark conditions. It is hard to over water an orchid if they have enough light, so keep adding light until they can not take anymore.
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cutterpup
17 years ago
yet when I was looking for some neem oil I found a combo of the two in a ready to spray bottle. Now I'm really confused.
Judy
jamcm
17 years ago
Was it perhaps a new formulation of insecticidal soap containing neem oil? I doubt that it really would be the two mixed together, if you know what I mean.

Julie
cutterpup
17 years ago
Julie..you're right. I was looking for some neem and came across a spray bottle that said neem oil across the front and was labeled as a insceticide. When I checked the ingredidents on the back it was the same as anyother insceticidal soap PLUS had neem oil in with it. Still, if they shouldn't be combined this does not sound like a good product to use.
Judy
organic_kermit
17 years ago
I recently went through the same confusion when purchasing a neem product. I got so confused that I just went to the health food store and bought pure neem oil and just added it to water in spray bottle. The first round I added dish soap, and after that I just used the oil. Works great and much cheaper than the ready mixed. I warn you though, the oil smells like death. I have a toddler and changing his diaper is nothing compared to the smell of the oil.
Good luck!
copanolady
17 years ago
I just bought something with 70% neem oil myself, today. I was also confused because I saw mixtures with canola oil, so of course I thought why not just use the canola oil in my pantry? Also, in the orchid supplies area (Lowe's) they had large containers of Vinegar for $14.97 - No instructions or what it should be used for, but $15. for a $1.00 product? Odd. Needless to say I didn't buy it, did buy the neem though.
jamcm
17 years ago
Likely if they're making insecticidal soap with neem the formula has been adjusted to have less adverse effects. But I do agree that neem oil should be purchased in pure form, mixed with water and a drop of dishwashing soap (remember that oil and water do not mix unless you add this). Much cheaper and you actually know what you're getting. I've always found the odor to be reminiscent of onion soup that has been sitting on the counter for a couple of hours or more. At least it goes away relatively quickly.

Julie
Ryan Winklepleck
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I'm a bit late to this discussion lol but I'm curious as to why it's not ok to use neem oil with Safer insect killing soap? The original Safer insecticidal soap is only potassium salts of fatty acids... No sulfur. Safer brand does also make a 3-in-1 concentrate which contains both sulfur and potassium salts of fatty acids, but this is not their original or only product. On a further note, castile soaps like Dr. Bronner's usually contain potassium hydroxide. Potassium salts of fatty acids are made by combining natural plant oils with alkali - typically potassium hydroxide. As far as I can tell, castile soaps & Safer insecticidal soap are very similar...

P.S. Salts based on long chain fatty acids are the best/safest for plants. Salts made from shorter length fatty acids can have higher phytotoxicity.

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