compost tea, fish emulsion in veg garden-- why?

17 years ago

i've been reading here about using these things, most recently in a post asking organic gardeners if they do something special with heavy feeders. i don't do anything different with them, and have never tried compost tea or fish emulsion, or done any foliar or local feeding. i'm wondering if there's an advantage to using these, over just putting compost and mulch on the soil. it takes more work, so there must be a reason people do it. how do they affect crops?

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Comments (10)

justaguy2
17 years ago
As far as compost tea, I will let those who use them speak to that, but fish emulsion is simply a fertilizer made from fish.

Decent source of nitrogen and some minor nutrients.

Would it benefit you over compost and mulch? Only one way to find out ;-)
maupin
17 years ago
I make and use aerated compost tea. I have found that it increases yield and improves plant resistance to disease. It's like compost on steroids, and easy to make if you have compost. I make it in 32 gallon batches and use it as a foliar feed and a soil drench. When I say foliar feed I mean walking around in the garden with a bucketfull and dousing the plants with it.

With fish emulsion--if you use it make sure to make it weak--too strong and it will seriously burn your plants. But it is a decent pick me up for starts just before planting in a diluted spray.
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Don't be a slave to numbers, unless it's fun for you. I get the impression from some of your postings here that you tend to stress out about all the little factoids of organic gardening and composting. (you've said you were going crazy over it in fact) People have been growing fantastic food without tracking the percentages of micronutrients since the dawn of time. The stuff that plants really need to grow can be found in...plants. They incorporate it into foliage, etc. Compost that stuff, and you should have what you need. You're right if you're thinking that some of those micronutrients are at levels that just probably won't help anything at the dilution rate for fertilizing as listed on the bottle (even "micro" nutrients have a level at which they're not really contributing). I love how everyone talks about the numbers of micronutrients in their products. Anyone know how many micronutrients are in a compost pile of shredded leaves and coffee grounds? How about just shredded leaves? I'm guessing lots. I'll guess "lots". I can't blame the companies that list numbers of micronutrients- from the number of people here that say "ooh- this one has 70!", or whatever- it seems to sell the product. Neptune's Harvest has a good reputation, so if they sell a little more, then good for them! I drove to Hampton Beach and picked up 2 kitchen bags of seaweed. Made a thick tea with some of it and composted the rest. Why did I get it at all? We were there (my little dogs love the beach). Free compostables. You could do the same and not worry about numbers- percentages matter little when you have lots of material (low percentage times larger amount still means more total nutrient added). Reports that I've read make all sorts of claims about disease resistance and other stuff for seaweed/kelp micronutrients. I don't have any plant disease problems, but hey- it was free and probably won't hurt.
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You might want to review the attached link. There is a great deal of mythology associated with foliar fertilizing. Generally I recommend against it - not a reliable or very efficient method for plants to obtain necessary nutrients and will often lead to increased disease issues.......like most other overhead or foliar water will do. As far as the quality of the product is concerned, fish/kelp/seaweed emulsion is one of the very few soluble or liquid organic fertilizers. And is therefore a great organic product to use with containers, as granular or powdered organics are not very effective under those conditions. Also fine for any inground plants as well. And the stuff has a fair amount of micronutrients, which is also above average for most other organic fertilizers. So all in all, a pretty decent product to use, just not ideal if used solely as a foliar application. Here is a link that might be useful: the myth of foliar feeding
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This thread is hilarious and informative at the same time! Thank you all for the laughs and the knowledge! My experience with fish emulsion goes like this. I’ve been growing bonsai for many years and have more than I want to talk about. Some are pretty old and my treasures. When we moved from the big city to the country, we of course brought every single plant and bonsai! We had four box trucks jammed full of plants and one for the house stuff. I carefully arranged each bonsai on their little stands so they’d all look just right even if we were the only ones that could see them. I started the repotting process soon thereafter and of course...used fish emulsion to give them all a boost. The next day, I go back to check on my “babies” and stood there in shock! Thinking the worst about some human vandalism or theft, I notice that each plant had been uprooted and holes had been dug in every pot. Little hand like prints and tracks are all over the place, I follow the trail of destruction to a boggy area near a creek. There lie the remains of several larger bonsai, the fish emulsion bottle and even the bucket! A few choice words later and some tears too, I gathered the survivors and repotted them. Most survived with some very interesting new shapes but I certainly learned my lesson. Fish emulsion is great stuff but never use it if you even suspect that you have raccoons.
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Like Kimmsr, I use compost for seed starting, and I also get lots of unplanned volunteers in the compost pile. As long as the compost is finished or mostly-finished, it shouldn't be a big problem. You certainly wouldn't want to use "hot" compost with your seeds. :-) As to the seeds themselves, as mentioned above a lot depends on the type of seed, soil temperature, and the age of the seeds. Many times older seeds take longer to germinate and have a less successful germination rate. It's my understanding that carrot seeds can normally take 2-3 weeks to germinate; longer if the soil is too cold and/or the seeds are old. This is based on info I've read, not on personal experience. Last fall I started a new compost area that was to be turned into a vegetable patch this spring. Having started it late in the autumn, there were only a few inches of organic material applied to the ground and it never got hot enough to fully finish. I turned it once or twice in April as the ground started thawing, and the grass clippings had very little deterioration; they were mostly intact and kind of mucky like grass clippings get when you pile them up. No additional material had been added to the area since last December. But that didn't stop the volunteers of cucumbers, lettuce, and, lastly, tomatoes from germinating -- thanks to those leftover, unpicked fruits that were thrown in from the garden last October. [I'm used to tomato volunteers, but the cukes and lettuce were surprises.] I can't really speak to experience with carrots (maybe I'll grow some next year), but there could be a number of factors that influenced low and slow germination. All the best.
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pablo_nh
17 years ago
"if there's an advantage to using these, over just putting compost and mulch on the soil."

There have been a number of threads on this very question. Bottom line- just adding compost helps. Adding unaerated compost tea helps. Adding aerated tea helps.

After several studies- aerating has not been proven to do anything more than just adding compost or unaerated tea. Maybe someone will find a way to make ACT consistently better than just compost- but until then- there's no proven advantage, just anecdote.

Those who use it swear by it, but that's not comparing it to compost alone (which others use alone and swear by).

Fish emulsion is a fertilizer made from fish. Good stuff if you need NPK.
Kimmsr
17 years ago
If you do not have a soil that is well endowed with organic matter, has a good nutrient balance, these may be the crutch you need until your soil is well balanced. Otherwise they will do little for you.
maupin
17 years ago
Visit Captain Compost's website. Captain Compost Alabama .com. (I spell it this way because gardenweb does not allow the postin of links.) Lot's of good info on compost and tea.
tetrazzini
Original Author
17 years ago
thanks, all. i don't generally have any problems in the garden, other than the annual disappointing surprise, which is different every year. so i wondered if i should go to the extra effort of making these things. i will someday, when i have the time.

i have to say, this is a forum i really respect -- and it has humbled me. i used to think i pretty much had it down as far as organic veg. gardening goes, but after reading this website for a couple of years now, i realize i have so much to learn. many of you really know your stuff. i'm impressed, and thankful!
dicot
17 years ago
My favorite use of very weak fish emulsion or compost tea is while growing seedlings in low-organic potting mix. Here in SoCal, a lot of the xeric species, like certain salvias, prefer not to sit in wet potting soil with bark or manure - instead with coco noir and sand or cocoa hulls or perlite. These seedlings seem to enjoy a quick nitrogen boost in a readily soluble form.
dchall_san_antonio
17 years ago
i have to say, this is a forum i really respect -- and it has humbled me. i used to think i pretty much had it down as far as organic veg. gardening goes, but after reading this website for a couple of years now, i realize i have so much to learn. many of you really know your stuff. i'm impressed, and thankful!

These are my sentiments, too. I started here in late 2001 and found a very steep learning curve. Most of my early GardenWeb gurus have moved on, but I am most grateful to them for them sharing their fascinating experiences and knowledge.
captaincompostal
17 years ago
I love to use aerated compost tea recipes, fish emulsion, and homemade seaweed teas, in my gardening style. However ACT is definitely my favorite, because there is basically an unlimited way to brew it, (or spice it up) for whatever lawn, garden, herbal, or ornamental garden design you desire.

Happy Gardening!
ziggy___
17 years ago
Why??? Because it provides something that their soil needs to grow what they like to grow. The philosophy translates well across the web, but the specifics often don't. I live in PA and grow mostly veggies and natives in acidic clay soil. A recipe for compost tea, or other idea that does wonders for someone growing roses in alkaline sugar sand in FL may do nothing for me. Only trial and error based on some educated guesses will prove what works for you.

Ziggy

compost tea, fish emulsion in veg garden-- why?

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compost tea, fish emulsion in veg garden-- why?

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