northernorchidlady,

I FEEL your pain right now. The good news? I just trashed a reliable, flowering Cattleya mossiae var reineckiana. The reason, a positive test for orchid virus.
The bad news? I tested the same plant last year. I thought that it looked "suspicious". My test result using the Agdia ImmunoStrip was negative.

Hmmm....oh, well. False negatives and false positives are a part of the testing procedure.

--Stitz--

stitzelweller, the first was negative, the second positive. False negatives and false positives. What made you decide the positive result was the correct result and the negative one was the incorrect result?

Hey C,

I got your e-mail...thought I'd post a reply here in case anyone else can benefit from what I observed. Sadly, I had something similar happen to my phals three summers ago, and it ripped through all my plants like wild fire. I suspect now that it was some sort of severe fungal infestation. Plants were tested with both Agdia and samples were sent to critter creek. Results were negative for oncidium ring spot and cymbidium mosaic.

I documented what happened in a series of photos below:
Stage one:
{{gwi:150866}}
Stage two:
{{gwi:150867}}
Stage three:
{{gwi:150869}}

I've observed that new leaves do not seem to be affected until they reach maturity. Roots do not seem to be affected. Leaves get blotchy quickly, starting with strange yellow discoloured spots, rapidly progressing, eventually falling off. Sometimes they turn reddish first.

I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but I couldn't fix the problem, despite treating with phyton27 (which is supposedly a strong copper based systemic). I had some more isolated phals that were not affected at first but got affected later, so I suspect that the problem spreads either through an insect vector, or wind (plants were outside). I lost my very first orchid (a phal) and about 6 other phalaenopsis...I now only have one phalaenopsis (equestris) left that I originally had in a completely isolated location inside the house.

My advice would be to discard plants that don't mean too much to you and can be easily replaced, isolate all the affected plants you care about, and cut out as much diseased tissue as you can with a sterile blade. Then discard media, bleach pots, and soak the plant in some sort of disinfectant for at least an hour before repotting in fresh media.

PS: To post photos, use the tag [img src=" INSERT LINK TO PHOTO HERE"] and replace the square brackets with the triangle ones.

Thanks Stitz, I guess the only consolation is that I am not alone but the situation looks grim for my plants.

Calvin, thanks for your informative post. Your photos show exactly what my plants look like except not as extreme as the last 2 of your photos. Many of my phals I've had for over 10 years and so to me are irreplaceable. It is heartbreaking to say the least. I long suspected that I needed to throw them out (denial??) and now hope it hasn't spread to my other plants...

Here are some of the photos of my sick plants (thx for the code!)
The last one is of an oncidium type orchid...not sure if it is the same disease??

{{gwi:150871}}

{{gwi:150873}}

{{gwi:150875}}

{{gwi:150877}}

{{gwi:150879}}

Calvin were those the only two viruses Critter Creek tested for?

Brooke

Heya Brooke,

Sorry it is odontoglossom ring spot, not oncidium ringspot (doesn't exist I don't think) that they tested for, in addition to Cymbidium mosaic. Just those two ... so I suppose it could be something else...do you have thoughts?

stitzelweller, the first was negative, the second positive. False negatives and false positives. What made you decide the positive result was the correct result and the negative one was the incorrect result?

Good question, bullsie. The growth pattern became a dramatic, simultaneous reduction in the size of recent pseudobulbs on multiple leads. I observed this previously in Cattleya plants which had all tested virus positive. This plant was adjacent to virus tested positive plants that were trashed last summer. Also, this reliable bloomer did not flower this year.

--Stitz--

Calvin wrote, "I suspect now that it was some sort of severe fungal infestation

Collette and Calvin, I think that the above sentence is probably correct. I had a severe problem 2-3 yrs ago with something that I loosely diagnosed as a "rust" disease. The appearance was similar to your fotos. It began during an extended period (two weeks++) of constant rain. Originally, the problem seemed limited to only one recent acquisition (a Laelia purpurata). Eventually, it spread to a few other plants in the same locale.

That plant and the others are LONG gone. My only regret is that I didn't trash the original offender immediately. It was a GIFT plant. There's no room for sentimental values when it comes to diseases!

--Stitz--

Calvin I don't have a clue but I do know there are other virus but you have to pay an additional fee to Critter Creek to find them.

Whatever it is, it looks nasty.

Brooke

I've been disturbed by your photos all day. I have the same thing on the few Phals I have left. I also see it on a Psychopsis. I assumed it was something fungal/bacterial or insect as it appears early summer. I haven't lost any plants but they look horrid. I wipe the leaves with alcohol and it does seem to control it when I stay on top of it. Last summer I thought thrips. Its definitely confined to Phals and now the Psychopsis. My Oncids just have the normal spots.

I've had this for at least 3 years. I really didn't think it was anything serious just disfiguring. I'll try to get photos tomorrow. I think it is stress related. My Phals are kept too cold all winter as is the Psychopsis. They perk up as temps rise and begin growth. That is when I start to see the spots. If I am diligent I wipe the leaves with alchol wipes and it seems to halt it. The plants continue to grow and flower normally. I have not had it on any Catts.

Jane

Just tested three of my phals, that are flowering nicely, for virus...and all three came back positive for cym mosaic. I have a couple more phals left but I'll have to wait to get more testing stuff. But I bet your bottom dollar I've got others virused too. I think we all need to thank the powers that be for all this junk (for lack of more choice words) that they keep pumping into the system. What do they care if the crap they sell has virus, as long as it LOOKS ok when it goes out the door that's all that is important I guess. I will buy phals again but you can bet I'll be a lot more selective about WHO I'm buying it from and WHAT their policies are on their stock. It just makes me sick to my stomach. I have fussed and fussed over these plants all this time and now I find no matter what I would do they will all start declining and probably take down the rest of my collection IF I kept them(which I won't). But there's hard telling what I have that has already gotten infected,even with me being super careful. I'm just so disheartened. It makes me look at orchid growing as a hobby in a whole new light, a very dim light!!!!!ginnibug

P.S. Thank you Super commercial high propagation growers and also Thanks to the high-ups in the American Orchid Society that know this is going on and turn a blind eye to it all! You definitely won't be getting my membership money,ever!

Jane - I'd be interested to know how the psychopsis fares. Mine was confined to phals as well. Stitz - when this happened to me, whatever this was, also occured after a lot of rain, and the plants had spent some time outdoors under the shade of an apple tree that did have some sort of rust-like disease. I suspect rain water carrying it may have dropped on the plants.

Question, has anyone tried peroxide on their plants to see if this helps - the plant not the 'offender'? I wondered if a weekly dosing of hydrogen peroxide might help if it were fungus or bacterial by nature.

Also, I saw recently that one of the vegetable viruses, I think the one that affects cucumbers can be transmitted to succulents - or some species. I don't see any reason other plants (mention of apple tree) can't carry something the orchids could get. We only know of a few things, but time may show other offenders.

Carter and Holmes and H & R Orchids are two I can think of who offer virus free plants. It is well worth keeping a clean collection - saves time, money, and heart ache.

Why is the AOS to blame for virused plants being sold? Blame the US Government for permitting virused plants to be (mostly) imported from Asia.

Brooke

I'd say trash the ones with the indications immediately.

Indoor grower here...
I believe I had the same thing last fall/winter. My plants looked remarkably like Calvin's pics. Lost 160+. Tried to save the phals for 1-2 months after first noticing the problem, ended up spreading through my entire collection. Lost almost everything after 3 months of 'fighting'. As a side note, I think this is especially bad for stressed plants, I was going through back issues and was not caring for my kids in the same manner as I had for the previous 6-7 years.

I eventually dedcided it was not a virus, but fungal/bacterial. But still not positive..

Bob

Hey Brooke.
Ok here is my view. Why blame AOS versus U.S. Government?

My understanding with testing from U.S.= they test plants and crops that pose a threat to our food safety. Now some ornamentals have to be tested because they threaten food crops but not all i.e. ornamental sweet potatoes can't be grown in certain parts of the South because they harbor pests and disease that harms the sweet potato crop.
Since this is contained to hobby plants I don't see where the government needs to step in unless it starts threatening our indigenous orchids.
But there are top officers in the AOS that are also large growers that know all about this but it's a total non -issue to them. Just something to be denied and ignored so it will just go away. I've talked to a top officer from IPA and a commercial grower. He acknowledges the problem but says Well a grower can't take all that virused stock back,they'd go broke. So it's just better to take a chance and hope the person with the sick plant doesn't know or test and then they just assume it just died.
If the same people that advocate us to buy more plants and educate us on how to grow better would start demanding that the plants that are offered are healthy to begin with wouldn't that be better for everybody. ginnibug

We had a vendor at our spring show, once, only once. He was not re-invited. He had a spread of beautiful Blcs and other fluffy catt hybrids. I liked one and wanted to purchase it but noted that 2 of his other offerings had color break in the flowers. I pointed that out to him but he insisted that it was a nutritional side effect. I then offered to buy the plant with a money back if it test positive for virus. He declined saying that this is not their policy.

At that point I threatened him that we would make an anouncement at the 'Orchid care session' taking place on the other side of the wall where his site was to warn people of his plants. Since I was 1st VP of the host society he relented and told me to take the plant, no charge, but he did not want to hear about it anymore. 2 hours later the virused plants were still offered for sale, later in the day they were gone, some lucky person got them.

The perfect looking plant I got tested positive sure enough a few days later, the instant tests were not available then. I warned other member as of this vendor's plants and subsequently heard that a couple had positive tests.

It turned out that his main business was cut flowers for corsages and other floral arrangements and selling surplus plants at shows a secondary activity. He has huge growing areas full of 'fluffy' Cattleyas which have their flowers cut for the florist trade. Can you imagine a minimum wage employee cutting a few hundred flowers every day using sterile technique? Neither a fresh razor blade nor flaming the instrument fits into their business model. No doubt someone with a pair of sharp clippers or what ever goes from plant to plant cutting flowers.

Obviously virus must be rampant in a situation like that. I am sure they don't care, as long as the plant produces flower, fine, otherwise to the trash it goes.

We did not have them back but the growers in the cutting flowers business are also a source of virused plants and are to be avoided.

Nick

The bottom line is that the buyer must beware. No more cheep thrills.

Prophylactic measures are necessary in order to prevent disease. Somtimes, this includes testing or, at least knowing where your Phal (or whatever) has been. Sometimes, this includes abstinence.

--Stitz--

I just think it is odd to blame the AOS which is operated by a group of mostly volunteers for the spread of some disease. The US Government doesn't just protect the food crop of the US but ALL plant material.

Brooke

I have had a little experience bringing in AU plants with the Ag inspectors finding some weird fungus and bugs which cost me an extra $300 to get them in. I spent time at their station and they do a very complete job inspecting in detail every shippment arriving.

They do not, however, test for virus. I asked them about that and the simple answer was that's it's not on their list of prohibited organisms. It would require a policy change from the top to make that happen.

Nick

After looking closely at Calvin's photos, whatever that stuff is looks very similar to something that happened with a lot of my plants a couple of years ago. Most I lost - the ones that were just too infected, but I did manage to save quite a few with regular treatments of Daconil 2787 from Ortho.

In particular, one plant, my Encyclia obpiribulbon had this stuff quite bad on both the leaves and PBs. Out of desperation, I removed every leaf and PB showing signs of the black sunken tissue and started spraying every two weeks or so. So far none of the new growth is showing any signs of disease and it hasn't spread to any of the older leaves or PBs. I also now do regular spraying s of everything in hopes of never having another outbreak of this stuff. So far, so good.

Kevin

Brooke wrote, "I just think it is odd to blame the AOS which is operated by a group of mostly volunteers for the spread of some disease."

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE!!

--Stitz--