Thanks Michael. I have a lot of blooms now after using the Bayer's 2 in 1, and sprayed Bayer's complete insect killer (front yard), Bioneem ( back yard) a couple of times. But I still have a lot of roses only have 50% of the buds can make it to bloom, and still have some roses without any blooms, I knew I didn't put enough amount Bayer's 2 in 1 on all the roses. I didn't put any around once bloomers, Polar Joy rose trees, newly planted bare root roses (planted in late May early June), now I see midge damage on those. It's time to treat them. I got one beautiful bloom out of MAC two weeks ago after 2 years of no blooms, that's a good start ....... Which product contains cyfluthrin-only? I googled it and found eBay has it-Cykick($38). Is that the one? I tried to spray only Bayer's complete insects killer for midge last year, It didn't work without Bayer's 2 in 1. I am willing to mix the fungicide and cyfluthrin only. If that can kill midge and I don't have to use Bayer's 2 in 1.($45 per treatment) If I still have to use both of them, it would cost me even more than current treatment($45+$38), I learned cost accounting, can you tell? :-) Thanks for a great idea.

garden, I used to use the Bayer drench. It will help against black spot, but you may still need a spray if the BS pressure is high and conditions are right. If you have active BS now, I'd also spray with the Bayer disease control spray. As far as JBs go, it will kill them after then eat the leaves or flowers. It probably will not stop your buds from getting damaged a bit. I never saw the bees affected by using the drench, but I can't be sure. If there are no open flowers, then they will not come in contact with it. I have to be honest that when I used the drench, I did not have a thrip problem. I thought it was a coincidence that I started having the thrips after I stopped using the Bayer. I stopped using the drench because it became too expensive to use once I had 100+ roses. I also preferred to use the spray for disease because it works so well and I wanted to use organic fertilizers. However, since my thrip problems are SO BAD, I did decide to use the Bayer drench on a few roses that have bad problems with thrips. I don't get a lot of JBs. I did put down Milky Spore a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's that or other things, but I only get a few. And the few that I saw were dead. Not sure if that was from the drench, but I can't really think of anything else. I know you are like me, you want to be organic and do all the right things, but sometimes it's not possible. I also wish there was just a drench for bugs or BS, but there isn't. I think judicial use of the drench is fine. When I used it, I still had many bees, butterflies and other bugs. Just not thrips :)

Tony, the neonicotinoid class of pesticides are systemic insecticides, so it would be extremely unlikely if they did NOT kill honeybees. In fact, it would be pretty much impossible for them not to do so. The question is, how much of this stuff is being sprayed, and how long does it survive in the environment? Well, the answer to the first part is that tons (literally) of the stuff is being sprayed because it is highly effective, and the answer to the second part is that it is most likely it breaks down very slowly because it is a systemic. I have heard similar reports that neoticotinoids aren't responsible for CCD. In fact, the professor I spoke to from UC Davis reported in a lecture that the French banned this class of pesticide, and the loss of bees continued. Unfortunately, this does NOT mean that these pesticides are harmless. It just means that there are other factors ALSO at work which are contributing to CCD, and now we know that the IAPV (Israeli Acute Paralytic Virus) is the main culprit, or one of the main culprits. The best we can figure right now is that honeybees are under attack from multiple sources, and the only way to effectively bring back the honeybees is to address as many of the factors as we can. One of the observations made about bees that were affected by CCD, ones that actually made it back to their hives, was that they were absolutely loaded with every conceivable pathogen---tracheal mites, varroa mites, several types of RNA viruses, including IAPV, and even bacterial pathogens as well. Ergo, the bees were highly stressed and their immune systems were severely weakened. This suggests multiple pathogenic agents rather than a single source.

At the risk of stepping in to a bee hive.......I would just like to point out there is ZERO credible proof that the products by Bayer are in any way responsible for the honey bee decline. People looked at the uptick in CCD and it sort of matched the uptick in sales of the Bayer products and they went EUREKA!!! Hey the Nintendo WII was invented at the same time as the CCD uptick and it's sales have soared as the bees have declined..there you have it proof that the Nintendo WII is responsible for CCD!!! Ridiculous and bad science that does a huge disservice to the world. This hysterical wailing it is Bayers fault!!!! came from one flawed study and lord knows someone says something 2 people hear it and repeat it and to some it becomes fact. To add a bit of common sense, logic and just facts......CCD started before the Bayer products were ever released. Honey bee die offs are nothing new. It happened in the 1880's, in the 1920's and in the 60's, all long before that evil Bayer corporation invented this family of chemicals. CCD is simply the new catch phrase for a bee problem that has been around for at least a 100 years. Some scientists are professional drama queens and do so on purpose as drama and the sky is falling paranoia is the best way to get research dollars flowing or they see it as a way to push their far left eco agenda. in 1995 we lost 90% of our bee hives on our farm and in Pennsylvania in general the state lost over 50% of all it�s hives......nobody knows what caused it, just another die off. Before the lynch mob mentality turned it's gaze on Bayer the scientists thought our cell phones were causing the decline. Now that I have ticked off (I hope not) the bee huggers.....I love bees, we need them and we have to find out what is causing the decline. What good does it due though to blindly blame with no proof? Do good solid research and find the cause (if it can be found) THEN act.... Do your own reading and know that while the internet is a great resource people have a bias and will report what they claim are "facts" when in fact they are not but simply a reflection of their own bias. I don't use the chemical myself, I try to not use any pesticides or insecticides in the garden if I can help it and I don't own stock in Bayer. I did not write this to tick anyone off. You have to understand that if people make up their minds that Bayer is guilty they stop looking for the real cause. Now could it be Bayer's products? Absolutely..... I for one simply want evidence, real evidence based on solid science and proven methodology not theories or guessing before I for one am willing to hang them. If it makes some feel better to hang with no evidence, lynch away.