The page linked to seems to be heralding a debut. The copyright at the bottom dates from 2005, even if these trees were introduced the same year they would have only been on the market two years at this point.

I bought several benchgrafts but unfortunately despite following instructions on planting, etc. all died. The proprietor was not pleased that I hadn't planted them in containers as I rent. I understand he controls sales of the fruit from these varieties as well or maybe collects royalties on sales or something like that.

Someone in San Diego has fruited Thornberry successfully (I see that one is not on your list though, maybe another list for the red and pink fleshed apples, oh yes, Rosetta Apples).

Of the Sweetmeats that are NOT trademarked you can find Wickson, Crimson Gold and Humboldt scionwood through ARS germplasm repository and NAFEX/ Nick Botner and possibly some that are.

I also tried two of them this year and they both died. One of them had all of one hair of a root on it and I wrote to complain and got back a scolding letter about how I had overwatered (I underwatered if anything). They did refund the money. The other one died later. I probably could have saved it if I watered it more. After getting that scolding letter I will never order from Greenmante again, however much I am interested in their hybrids. I will be happy with Wickson which is supposedly the best of all of them in any case. It is a great apple - I think of it as a plum/apple cross in terms of taste.

Scott

I have Thornberry, Wickson, Chestnut, Whitney, and Kerr crab, and all fruited well but will be another month before most are ripe, so I can't tell you about flavor yet except Whitney, which was good.

It seems all crab apples do well in our hot climate, and I think it has to do with their wild background suited to harsh climates.

Applenut

Centennial (DolgoXWealthy) is another good, tasty apple-crab/edible crab/lunchbox apple that I'd recommend heartily - as well as the old standard, Dolgo, which is a parent to both Kerr & Centennial.
I like Kerr, still waiting for Wickson & Chestnut to fruit - they always get rave reviews.
I've had Thornberry in the ground for over 10 years; still no fruit.

I guess IÂve had the best luck with Greenmantle bench grafts, because only half of mine died. Yes, I was scolded as well for over watering/ under watering. ThatÂs why I wanted feedback before ordering more from them. The man who runs it is so knowledgeable and enthusiastic about apples, itÂs easy to be sold on the trees.
I wonder what the problem is with GreenmantleÂs rootstock, that the grafts donÂt thrive? A good, healthy rootstock will push up from the roots if the graft dies. GreenmantleÂs whole plant dies, roots and all. KuffelcreekÂs bench grafts start out on much larger rootstock, all thrive no matter what you do to them, and are twice the size of GreenmantleÂs at the end of the year. GreenmantleÂs benchgrafts, planted in potting soil, in five gallon pots, grow twice the size of the ones planted directly in the ground, and survive slightly better, at around 60%, compared to 40 % survival in the ground.
Crabs sound like wonderful trees for the front yard, to share with the neighbors and children. Centennial and Wickson are both described as great crabs- IÂve added them to my Raintree and Virginia Apples order. Chestnut crab sounds good as well, ordering from Kuffelcreek.

I ordered about 10 bench grafts from Greenmantle a couple of years ago. I have 2 left alive, and these are struggling.

The bench grafts were grafted using a bark graft where the scion was joined to the rootstock on the side of the rootstock rather than a whip and tongue graft that I would have expected. There doesn't seem to be a strong union established between the two, therefore the graft is weak and appears to be less vigorous.

sounds like their bengrafts are undesirable. Salmon, if you like to graft you could try some bridge grafts on the 2 that are alive to try and create a better union between the rootstocks and the apples.

Of course it would probably be better to start with new trees or graft directly to the rootstock.

OK, we just harvested Wickson this week, and it was very good. Nice crisp sweet/tangy spicy little apples, colored up really nice.

Applenut

I noticed on the green mantle wesite that all the varieties are trade marked. They do not have patents. I don't know what that means other than you can't use the variety name without their permission. I suppose when you order, you are signing a contract not to propagate or see the fruit. The utter greed of that place frustrates me. They make the fruit sound so nice but then the greed shows through.

Robert

Yes, you do have to sign a paper that you wonÂt propagate the cultivars. However, the motivation seems to me not so much greed as a desire to protect the lifeÂs work of Etter for the public. Etter spent his whole life developing these special varieties. Without this protection, big companies like Willits and Newcomb Citrus Nursery can buy a patent for the cultivar, and limit sales to large professional nurseries who sign a contract only to sell the produce to them, such as what happened with the Red Nules Clementine. This monopoly completely cuts out the home grower. ThatÂs real greed at work.
We discussed this issue on the Citrus Forum. You can read more about big Nursery monopolies on the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red Nules?

They are probably confusing "Trademark" with a plant patent. The only way to have exclusive rights to propagate a plant is through a patent, which is good for 20 years. After it expires anyone can propagate that plant. It would be very difficult to patent a plant that's been under cultivation since the mid-1940's, and if the patent already expired, they're out of luck.

By worldwide agreement a plant has a cultivar name that can be freely used by everyone to identify that plant, often in latin or a number from the orchard block, row, and tree. You can come up with a fancy marketing name for the cultivar and trademark that name, but it is not the same as a patent and a cultivar name cannot be trademarked.

Let's say the PRI breeding program develops culitvar Co-op 271. They can patent it and release it under the marketing name "Prima-Donna" and trademark that name. After the patent expires in 20 years, you can propagate it, but you may still have to call it Co-op 271 since they own the name, but not the cultivar.

"Pink Lady" is a trademark name for Cripps Pink apples, and you have to belong to the association to market apples under that name. But if the cultivar was released over 20 years ago, anyone can propagate and sell Cripps Pink apples. The patent on Williams' Pride just ran out, but I have heard of no restrictions on using the name still.

Applenut, you are right. I don't think their non-propagation agreements are enforceable. I think they have figured out a way to limit propagation after all however: send dud trees that die.

Scott

Darn it Scott, you made me snort coffee all over my desk. At least warn us when a joke's coming.

If they got you to sign something, it is indeed enforceable. Otherwise, it is not illegal to get scionwood from another source and propagate them.

I have read the "green mantle" catalog and website carefully and the proprietor and his wife spent many years "rustling" what was left of Etter's trial orchards to preserve his "works in progress." They, not Etter, selected these rediscovered crab hybrids, named and trademarked the names (much as David Austin has trademarked the names of his roses but they can be found in commerce under their registered code names beginning with AUS). I was told there is not much left of Etter's orchards to rustle, many trees were lost to drought, disease, etc. so this is it. My opinion is the protection is for the investment of the living proprietors not Etter. If you really want to assure the preservation of an heirloom or vintage cultivar the best thing is to spread it around, not put limitations on it. Otherwise why wouldn't scionwood be made available and why did he object to me planting a tree on rental property? Nice catalog and descriptions though.

Green Mantle sounds unwarrantedly paranoid about even the least scion wood escaping his control. What if you plant at your surburban property, then 18 years later forget to dig up you apple tree and take it with you when you sell the property? What happens if the new owner likes the apple, and then shares scionwood with all his apple friends??

I have a good amount of Pink Parfait scionwood available this winter!

We got an Eden to fruit here in WA from a 3 year old tree from GM benchgraft purchase. I can't say enough about the amazing flavor of these little apples!!! We also lost about 40% of the bench grafted trees we bought from GM. We have since learned to do our own grafting and success rate is at least 80%, planting in 5 gal pots for the first year,just as we did with the first year with the GM trees. We've had 99% survival of rootstock! even if the graft fails, and we re-graft the next spring. So I agree with the rest of you, something in how they handle or brow their rootstock is wrong.

Waiting and hoping for Rubiayat to fruit, maybe this year.